Escort class ships, 5Kt or less

[Pwyll]

Lets make a thread about ships 5000 tons or less displacement

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i was looking at andrewmv's escort carrier and it got me thinking, so i decided to post a similar design i'd made a while back. please, if anyone has suggestions about this for me, i'd love to see them

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Class: Jellyfish
Type: Escort Carrier
Architect: Pwyll
TL: 15
Displacement: 3,000 tons
Standard Cost: MCr 1,359.73025
Configuration: unstreamlined irregular
Armor: 50 (Bonded Superdense)
Power: 41,400 Mw
Jump: 3
Maneuver: 3g
Avionics: noe 190 kph
Communications: radio (system), maser (system)
Sensors: electromagnetic masking, 10 kw neutrino sensor, low penetration densitometer, EMS jammer, standard EMS arrays, active (far orbit) and passive (interstellar)
Weapons: 16 triple missile rack turrets, 14 triple sandcaster turrets
Screens: nuclear dampers factor 2
Life Support: basic and extended life support, grav plates, inertial compensators, 2 airlocks
Bridge: 3 x computer Model/6, 3 large holodisplays
Crew: 76 (10 command, 7 bridge, 1 maintenance, 10 engineering, 2 weapon, 40 flight, 3 troops, 1 medic, 2 steward)
Pilots: 22
Accommodations: 76 staterooms (2 tons each except for CO stateroom at 4 tons), 7 low berths
Craft: 20 medium fighters (30 ton), 1 fuel shuttle (400 ton), 1 medium lifeboat (30 ton)
Fuel: 770.37 tons
Refinery: yes
Cargo: 86.04 tons
Agility: 3

Design notes:
- fuel usage from HG, but otherwise MT rule-set
- price reflects neither quantity discount nor standard design, and does not include subordinate craft
- deploy with a destroyer escort
- may launch all craft on the first turn of combat because of irregular configuration
- shuttle carries 323 tons of fuel, computer model/3, 1 3xMissile turret, 2 3xSand turrets, 1 3xBeamlaser turret, crew: 2, maneuvers at 2g with 0 agility, costs 101.0132 MCr sans discounts
- no frozen watch, the berths are for casulties and confinees

<insert>
missiles: 4 batteries at factor 5
sand: 2 batteries at factor 8
figs: 2 squadrons of 10
</insert>

 

[Rupert Boleyn]

Originally posted by Pwyll:
Lets make a thread about ships 5000 tons or less displacement

Class: Jellyfish
Type: Escort Carrier
Architect: Pwyll
Avionics: noe 190 kph

Why avionics in a ship that will never enter atmosphere?

Communications: radio (system), maser (system)
Sensors: electromagnetic masking, 10 kw neutrino sensor, low penetration densitometer, EMS jammer, standard EMS arrays, active (far orbit) and passive (interstellar)

While most people don't bother, IMO it's worth putting duplicates of your primary sensors (probably the EMS systems) and jammers so that if someone fries them you have replacements. The same applies to comms gear - and you'll want spares to deal with all those sub-craft anyway.

Weapons: 16 triple missile rack turrets, 14 triple sandcaster turrets
Screens: nuclear dampers factor 2

That's a strange number of missile and sandcaster turrets. Even multiples of ten are much more efficient, due to the breakpoints in the battery tables. Also, if you can spare the power consider some lasers - they can be used as both offensive and defensive weapons and don't require resupply.

As for the damper - while it's an excellent defence against fighter missile strikes, it's sorely lacking against any ship that packs a missile bay. If you can't put in a bigger one I'd consider an optimised rating-1 damper and using the saved power & space for something else - extra fuel and missles (if they carry them) for the fighters, perhaps.

Life Support: basic and extended life support, grav plates, inertial compensators, 2 airlocks

I think you'll be wanting more airlocks on a ship this size (bear in mind that in terms of physical size she's about the size of a late WWII heavy cruiser).

Craft: 20 medium fighters (30 ton), 1 fuel shuttle (400 ton), 1 medium lifeboat (30 ton)

Why 20 fighters? Modern aircraft formations tend to be built around pairs and groups of four. Squadrons tend to be either three or four 'fours'. Unless you're figuring on four of the fighters being 'down' for servicing at any one time 20 is probably not that best number (one reason for having only three or four groups {wings? I forget} is that more than that many and the squadron commander starts to have trouble keeping track of all the elements under his command). With 16 fighters there'll be room for refuelling supplies and extra munitions, or perhaps a bit more speed or jump (J3 is a bit low for TL5 according to MT canon, FWIW).

 

[Jame]

I tried such a thread already. It got 4 pages. You should check it out...

I kinda like your carrier, though I only gave it a brief look.

 

[Erik Boielle]

>>Why avionics in a ship that will never enter atmosphere?<<

For playing hide and seek near an airless moon, naturally.

 

[Typhonis]

hmmm could be he uses the 16 fighetrs to attack the target while the remaining 4 remain as CAP and anti missle defense

 

[Rupert Boleyn]

Originally posted by Typhonis:
hmmm could be he uses the 16 fighetrs to attack the target while the remaining 4 remain as CAP and anti missle defense

Such a CAP in Traveller space warfare is like using four PT boats as a CAP in WWII. If you're worried about attacks from enemy fighters the space would be better spent on a bigger nuclear damper and the reactor to power it.

 

[Pwyll]

well, you guys are right, 20 is a weird number for figs

its 2 squadrons of 10 a la HG, each squadron is treated as one battery.

the weapons go like this:
missiles: 4 batteries at factor 5
sand: 2 batteries at factor 8

i routinely put avionics on all military ships. shrug, maybe the captain wants to fly the ship into a cave on an airless world or asteroid to hide

input is appreciated

 

[Rupert Boleyn]

Originally posted by Pwyll:
well, you guys are right, 20 is a weird number for figs

its 2 squadrons of 10 a la HG, each squadron is treated as one battery.

Where is it written in HG that small craft may form squadron batteries? I thought that was a house rule.

 

[Pwyll]

bah, most of my LBB's are buried under stuff.
rupert, i'll have to get back to you on where i got the battery of figs thing from.

 

[Pwyll]

i downloaded Andrew Moffatt-Vallance's HGS and TCS...
this is my first TCS assault group. if anyone has some pointers or tips, i'd appreciate them.

my parameters:
1 marine battalion, jump-3, 3g, ocean refueling, 5Kt size limit.


SmallAssaultGroup Squadron
Designed by: Pwyll

2 x Shark Class Escort Destroyers

Ship: Mako
Class: Shark
Type: Escort Destroyer
Architect: Pwyll

USP
sc-E1368F2-081106-34809-0 MCr 5,771.354 5 KTons
Bat Bear 2 1 111 1 Crew: 69
Bat 2 1 111 1 TL: 12

Cargo: 30.500 Fuel: 1,900.000 EP: 400.000 Agility: 6 Shipboard Security Detail: 5
Craft: 2 x 20T Lifeboat
Fuel Treatment: Fuel Scoops and On Board Fuel Purification

Architects Fee: MCr 57.714 Cost in Quantity: MCr 4,617.083


1 x Jellyfish Class Escort Carriers

Ship: ManOWar
Class: Jellyfish
Type: Escort Carrier
Architect: Pwyll

USP
sc-E733433-090000-34006-4 MCr 3,203.242 5 KTons
Bat Bear 3 22 1 Crew: 139
Bat 3 22 1 TL: 12

Cargo: 19.000 Fuel: 1,700.000 EP: 200.000 Agility: 3 Shipboard Security Detail: 5
Craft: 40 x 30T Medium Fighter, 3 x 95T Fuel Shuttle, 2 x 20T Lifeboat
Fuel Treatment: On Board Fuel Purification

Architects Fee: MCr 32.032 Cost in Quantity: MCr 2,562.594


1 x Octopus Class Troop Transports

Ship: Medusa
Class: Octopus
Type: Troop Transport
Architect: Pwyll

USP
TE-E133433-091100-55008-0 MCr 3,775.007 5 KTons
Bat Bear 3 12 1 Crew: 500
Bat 3 12 1 TL: 12

Cargo: 0.500 Fuel: 1,700.000 EP: 200.000 Agility: 3 Marines: 435
Craft: 3 x 20T Lifeboat, 5 x 95T Shuttle
Fuel Treatment: Fuel Scoops and On Board Fuel Purification

Architects Fee: MCr 37.750 Cost in Quantity: MCr 3,020.006


2 x Dolphin Class Supply Ships

Ship: Bottlenose
Class: Dolphin
Type: Supply Ship
Architect: Pwyll

USP
SS-82333S2-050000-00005-0 MCr 504.843 800 Tons
Bat Bear 1 1 Crew: 11
Bat 1 1 TL: 12

Cargo: 237.500 Fuel: 264.000 EP: 24.000 Agility: 3
Craft: 1 x 50T Cutter, 1 x 20T Lifeboat
Fuel Treatment: Fuel Scoops and On Board Fuel Purification

Architects Fee: MCr 5.048 Cost in Quantity: MCr 403.874


1 x Pit Viper Class Drop Troop Ships

Ship: Cottonmouth
Class: Pit Viper
Type: Drop Troop Ship
Architect: Pwyll

USP
C-8234632-040000-30005-0 MCr 801.912 800 Tons
Bat Bear 1 1 1 Crew: 57
Bat 1 1 1 TL: 12

Cargo: 1.500 Fuel: 288.000 EP: 48.000 Agility: 4 Marines: 41 Drop Capsules: 5 (plus 37 Ready)
Craft: 1 x 50T Cutter
Fuel Treatment: Fuel Scoops and On Board Fuel Purification

Architects Fee: MCr 8.019 Cost in Quantity: MCr 641.530


5 x Pod Class Shuttles

Ship: Death Pod
Class: Pod
Type: Shuttle
Architect: Pwyll

USP
Y-0102221-000000-00002-0 MCr 43.575 95 Tons
Bat Bear 1 Crew: 1
Bat 1 TL: 12

Cargo: 0.150 Fuel: 1.900 EP: 1.900 Agility: 2
Craft: 6 x 8T GravAPC, 1 x 12T GravTank
Fuel Treatment: Fuel Scoops

Architects Fee: MCr 0.436 Cost in Quantity: MCr 34.860


3 x Modular Cutter Class Modular Cutters

Ship: Modular Cutter
Class: Modular Cutter
Type: Modular Cutter
Architect: Standard

USP
YY-0204401-030000-00001-0 MCr 29.325 50 Tons
Bat Bear 1 1 1 Crew: 1
Bat 1 1 1 TL: 12

Cargo: 2.000 Fuel: 2.000 EP: 2.000 Agility: 4
Fuel Treatment: Fuel Scoops

Architects Fee: MCr 0.293 Cost in Quantity: MCr 23.460


40 x Hornet Class Medium Fighters

Ship: Green Hornet
Class: Hornet
Type: Medium Fighter
Architect: Pwyll

USP
C2-0106A11-730000-10001-0 MCr 42.100 30 Tons
Bat Bear 1 1 1 Crew: 2
Bat 1 1 1 TL: 12

Cargo: 0.100 Fuel: 3.000 EP: 3.000 Agility: 6 Pulse Lasers
Fuel Treatment: Fuel Scoops

Architects Fee: MCr 0.421 Cost in Quantity: MCr 33.680


3 x Fuel Shuttle Class Fuel Shuttles

Ship: Bountiful Teat
Class: Fuel Shuttle
Type: Fuel Shuttle
Architect: Pwyll

USP
YY-0201101-000000-00000-0 MCr 23.875 95 Tons
Bat Bear Crew: 1
Bat TL: 12

Cargo: 87.750 Fuel: 1.000 EP: 0.950 Agility: 1
Fuel Treatment: Fuel Scoops

Architects Fee: MCr 0.239 Cost in Quantity: MCr 19.100


========================================================
Squadron requires 65 pilots
Squadron cost: Mcr 21,450.062
Squadron Vessel Tonnage: 24,510.000 Td
Squadron consists of: 58 Vessels (7 Starships, 0 Spaceships, 51 Small Craft), 35 Vehicles (30 gravAPC, 5 gravTank, 8 lifeboats)
Total squadron crew: 938
Total squadron marines: 476 (41 drop troops)
Total squadron ships troops: 15
Total fuel tonnage: 8,154.350 Tons
Percentage gas giant capable: 79.152%
Percentage ocean capable: 79.152%
Percentage ocean capable (5000Td or smaller): 79.152%

 

[Pwyll]

Originally posted by Jame:
I tried such a thread already. It got 4 pages. You should check it out...

I kinda like your carrier, though I only gave it a brief look.

haven't been able to find it

 

[Jame]

Well, this was a while ago, so it may have gone to another page. So, (1.) you may have to do a 60- 0r 75-day search here in "The Fleet" and (2.) keep in mind that it's titled "Purpose of Escorts." It's more about the use of escorts than specific designs.

Which reminds me, that's a nice task force. Do you mind if I borrow it?

 

[Pwyll]

Originally posted by Jame:

Which reminds me, that's a nice task force. Do you mind if I borrow it?

i'd be flattered

help yourself

 

[shield]

nice task group, but a couple of thoughts.

1 try JTAS12 it details a marine task group with numbers of troops and vehicles. I think you may be a bit short on troops and vehicles.

2. You may want purpose built troop shutles rather than cutters and shuttles. there is a design in supplement 9 (50tn ships, agility 3, carrys 50 troops and 10tn vehciles or combinations, and some armour).

3. Assuming your battle line is the two escort destroyers and fighters, with the drop ship also in the line to drop forward observers / commandoes etc, then you may want a fib computer and may be a damper on that drop ship, it will attract enemy fire.

4. You may want to upgrade the computers on the major ships, a high level computer is a very effective force multiplier in HG. Fib is nice to avoid those nukes.

Hope this helps
Cheers
Richard

 

[Pwyll]

thanks richard

 

[TKalbfus]

What do you carry on board a close escort class ship?

 

[kaladorn]

Well, if it's an escort ship, then maybe a load of courtesans?

In what sense did you mean, all joking aside?

Crew?
Ship's locker?
Marines?
Freight/Supplies?
Armoury?
Magazine?

What sort of enumeration are you looking for?

I'd think, as in most things, the mission profile of the ship would determine specialist gear, but there would be some generalist items.

Typical:

The standard mandatory safety gear (vacc suits for all, rescue bubbles, a few lifeboats or small craft).

The standard engineering and damage control gear (spares for the key components in the drives, mech, electronic and computer tool kits, hydraulic rams/lifts, portable fire extinguishers, portable 02 supplies, Engineering Exoskeletons, power-shunt cables, at least one portable power generator, battery packs, lots of hand held lights, hull patches, vacc suit patch kits, manual hatch opening aids, etc).

The standard armoury (small arms for the crew, perhaps some support arms if you have Marines aboard, combat armour for your Marines (you don't have the space for a proper Battle Dress locker/crypt so maintenance and repair would be tough, hence the suggestion of combat armour), and maybe some non-lethal response options like stunguns and sleep gas grenades for boarding ops)

Environment/landing equipment - filter masks, PLSS, combat environment suits (my 'lightweight' marine gear), nightvision gear, comms gear including commdots, laser comms repeaters, radio repeaters, etc), survival gear for on planet use

Stores - food for the crew, medical supplies for the sickbay, spares of key items that are likely to need repaired/replaced, entertainment supplies (spacing could be real boring...)

Vehicles - perhaps an air raft, enclosed, or some sort of small craft like a launch or pinnace

Magazine - Full 'live' load plus at least one reload of missiles, any explosives carried on board, etc.

 

[Hal]

Just as an aside - the CVE-80 of world war II fame only carried 28 fighters. Their usual duties were to hunt for submarines, and give air support to landing craft and such. As such, the Escort Carrier could qualify as such a ship:

Convoy escort: 20 fighters is more than ample firepower to handle a single ethically challenged merchant (are we allowed to say pirates and/or commerce raiders here?). Assuming that you use them to flush out any potentially waiting craft in ambush, keep 4 fighters back, launch 16 in four groups of four - you can flush out frontal, frontal port flank and frontal starboard flanks of any waiting attacker, and keep one group in the center of the convoy. Barring that, keep 4 fighters on CSP (combat space patrol) around the Carrier Escort, and 4 fighters in the bay for reserve. Ideally, if you assume that 10% of your fighters are down at any one due to mechanical failure - and you need to increase your fighter group size from 20 to say, 22 or even 24. This presumes a tactical unit of four fighters. If you want to use five as a unit (after all traveller states that each fighter group is 10) well, I'll let you all figure out your own table of organization

On low tech worlds where planetary assaults merit fighter support but not the assignment of a valuable full fledged carrier, these "jeep carriers" can fill in the gap.

Ideally, the "jeep carriers" don't need to be all that much faster than the merchants she rides herd on, and not all that much faster than perhaps a raider might be. After all, 10 fighters screaming after you with a 6 G accelleration can't be all *that* shabby.

That of course begs the question: are 10 fighters the equal of one 1,000 ton raider?