Far Trader crew question

[xdiox]

A2 trader needs a pilot, astrogator, engineer and steward/medic.
This may seem silly but I need to know:

1. Can a qualified individual be both the pilot/astrogator or pilot/engineer?

2. Does the engineer stay on the bridge during in-system/jump, or in the engine room?

If these questions aren't new, my apologies for rehashing them. I have a campaign going where one player has pilot/astrogation and the other has pilot/engineering. I need to figure out if we need to put in an npc for one of the crew jobs. Medic is covered by another player.
Thanks for any help you can give.

 

[veltyen]

1. Check the crew salary section in the travelling chapter. It is certainly possible for one person to fill multiple roles (especially on a small ship like a far trader)

2. This depends purely on campaign feel. While it is probably possible to monitor engineering systems from the bridge, it is difficult to whack the powerplant with a spanner. The engineer doesn't really need to be in either location, just close enough to respond when an alarm starts squawking.

Engineer is one of the tough professions in T20. Don't forget that to be a useful engineer you need T/(Engineering, Electrical, Mechanical, Communications, Computer, Sensors, Gravitics) though you can generally skip a couple of them. A bridge crew generally needs a similarily long list T(Astro, Sensors, Comm, Computer), Pilot, Feat(V/Starship), Liasion, Trader, Broker, P/Admin. Admittedly all of these skills aren't essential as such, but would you hire an engineer with only T/Engineering?

 

[far-trader]

It's a fair question xdiox, no need to apologize. Off the top of my head T20 allows such arrangements without penalty. Other rule sets have required a small penalty to represent the division of attention, typically each job/task is performed as if the skill level were one less. In the case of T20 I'd say make the DC more difficult for any tasks by 2 or 5 for each of the skills.

Pilot/Astrogation is by far the best double-up since both are bridge positions and Astrogator on a 200ton ship is optional besides.

Pilot/Engineer is doable imo and imtu because the Engineer can do most of their job from any workstation. The routine maintainence can be done while not underway when the person would have to be on the bridge and engaged in Piloting. There will be times though, damage control while in flight for example, when the Engineer is needed somewhere far from the bridge to make repairs and then there's nobody to fly the ship. So what do you do? Put it on what you hope is a safe course and go make the repairs? Or come to a full stop while the repairs are done? Or perhaps talk someone through the repairs?

But since your case has two qualified pilots they could both wear pilot hats depending on the requirements of the second jobs.

Hope that helps a little, just ask if it raised more questions. Some of this is also covered in the "Travelling" chapter (pg 340) of the T20 Handbook.

Have fun!

Note the combo of Steward/Medic you listed is a double assignment, but only when carrying High passengers.

 

[star rogue]

Where would a Gunner fit into this set up?

I am trying to spread the tasks fairly equally between the crew in my campaign.

Could anyone fire the ships weapons as well as performing there own tasks?

Which other position is best to double as the gunner?

I thought maybe Pilot/Sensors, Astrogator/Weapons, Engineer/Computer and Steward/Medic/Comms.

Can you think of a better division of roles?

 

[BetterThanLife]

Here is where you run into problems with doubling up in T20. It isn't the ordinary mundane things like moving out to jump point. Preparing and executing jump. (And I would want the engineer in engineering for that last task so he could whack something with a good sized hammer.) It is in combat. In combat, the pilot has one and only one task, fly the ship. Most flight choices are Full Round Actions while some are Standard Actions. (Though Flying Straight and Level is a Free Action.

) Damage Control is a Full Round/MultiRound Action. Operating Sensors (Either Offensively or Defensively) is a Full Round Action. Gunnery is a Full Round Action.
Communication is a Full Round Action. Ship's Tactics is a Full round action. Which is why IMTU fighters have a minimum crew of 2 and the newer models have a crew of 4.

When you are talking about gunners you are talking about being prepared for combat. In that case the minimum crew on a Far Trader is 4. Pilot/Astrogator, Engineer, Medic/Gunner, Steward/Gunner. (Though you will need to let your computer fire the weapons (A Model 1BIS? YUCK!) to handle crew and/or passenger casualties during combat and/or keep the passengers calm...) A Better combination would be Pilot/Astrogator, Gunner, Gunner, Steward/Communications/Computer, Medic/Sensors/Computer, Engineer/Computer.

 

[Gundiwolf]

Another thought here is 24-hour coverage. Hard to ask a single pilot to stand watch for more than 8 hours, so you would really want 3 crewmen with pilot skills. Three watches, minimum one pilot on duty at any one time. Probably a second crewman on duty as well, for comm/sensor/engineering monitoring.

Astrogator is an easy backup skill, since plotting a course is basically a one-time job, so the Astrogator job position could also be the 2nd pilot.

I would think a crew for a Far Trader (or Free Trader for that matter) would be more like this:

Captain - Astrogator, secondary pilot
1st Officer - primary pilot
2nd Officer - engineer
3rd Officer - Steward/Medic (and possibly Gunner on armed ship)
4th Officer - Comm/Sensors/3rd pilot
Crewman - backup skills for others, 2nd Gunner on armed ship, cargo handler.

And maybe even another "crewman", for more backup, ground security, and cargo handler. Crew doubles up on staterooms except for Captain (and maybe 1st Officer). That would give you 6 or 7 total crew, so you have enough for battle stations.

 

[far-trader]

I think Bhoins has once again seen through the fog and hit the target

The crew requirements listed are the minimum crew required for routine operations. Combat, for one, will require more crew, though if you consider the gunnery requirements as listed, that will cover you too for routine combat (I know there is no routine combat

).

So for a 200T two gunned merchant with high passagengers I'd go with:

Pilot /(Astrogator)
Steward /(Communications)
Medic /(Sensors)
Engineer /(Computer)
Gunner /(Damage Ctrl)
Gunner /(Damage Ctrl)

Note the bracketed assignments are pretty secondary and proably wouldn't earn full extra pay or impact the performance of the regular assignment in the normal course of operations. Some are an either/or choice and others are incidental.

As for your point Gundiwolf about Piloting watch I'd say 8hrs as the most for routine flight is fair, half that or less for combat flight (where you're actually threatened). However this will not be a concern in most cases. First, routine flights rarely take longer than 8 hours (1G travel to or from a 100d of a size 10 world is about 7.5 hours). Second, most combat will result in ship's involved being victorious or out of action in less than the 12 (20 minute) turns of the 4 hour watch I suggest, at least that's been my experience in the past*.

* Barring a case of cat and mouse involving a pursued ship fleeing to the cover provided by orbiting a large world and keeping it between itself and the pursuer, which probably should have resulted in a different solution but the pursuer was stupid (or an NPC, I forget)

 

[BetterThanLife]

I'll give you another case. The standard Mercenary Cruiser has a minimum crew of Pilot, Astrogator, 8 gunners, (Actually the Standard T20 Mercenary Cruiser is underpowered so isn't up to the same standards as the Broadsword, for this discussion we'll use a converted to T20 Broadsword instead of the underpowered ship in the T20 book.) 5 engineers and a Medic. (Plus 2 Cutter Crews and your Mercenary contingent.) Since a Mercenary Cruiser routinely will go into harms way and has to provide firesupport to ground troops, I would add a Ship Commander, (If the Astrogator is also a qualified pilot then the Command could be the full time pilot.) A Tactical Officer, who coordinates the efforts of the gunners and/or runs the ECM, ECCM or Sensors. A Sensor Operator, subordinate to the Tac Officer and part of the ship's Tactical section performing either offensive or defensive sensor operations. A Communications Operator, who, is also the primary computer operator, and also falls under Tactical. Adding three crew members allows the following. Sensor assisted gunnery, Computer assisted targeting, Jamming of enemy systems and someone actually exercising command (And applying Leadership skill). Your Commo Tech can coordinate with the Ground Troops, the Sensor Tech identifies the target and the Tac Officer leads and directs the fire for best effect. All this while the ship is still capable of maneuver and normal operations.

Typically the crew for the Traveller corvettes is too small for effective T20 combat, bear that in mind when you consider sending 3 400 ton ships against a Kinunir. And the Kinunir is undergunned for its size. (Pull the Dual Laser Turrets, replace two of them with Triple Missile Turrets and the other 6 with Triple Missile Turrets, (Two more EP which you have.) You now have two factor 4, vs. Factor 3 Missile Batteries and 3 factor 5 Beam Laser Batteries vs. 2 factor 5 batteries.

 

[BetterThanLife]

Originally posted by far-trader:
I think Bhoins has once again seen through the fog and hit the target

Why thank you sir.

So for a 200T two gunned merchant with high passagengers I'd go with:

Pilot /(Astrogator)
Steward /(Communications)
Medic /(Sensors)
Engineer /(Computer)
Gunner /(Damage Ctrl)
Gunner /(Damage Ctrl)

Note the bracketed assignments are pretty secondary and proably wouldn't earn full extra pay or impact the performance of the regular assignment in the normal course of operations. Some are an either/or choice and others are incidental.

The biggest problem with those crew assignments is that you have taken lost staterooms that normally would carry High Passengers. (And cut even deeper into your nonexistant profit margins.) My Crew of 4 works, but in combat it is stretched a bit tight. Your crew of 6 is much more flexible when it comes to combat, however it isn't as if a Merchant goes looking for trouble. (If they were supposed to do that they would have real sensors.)
remember that in T20, with typical Merchant Sensors you can only see into the next strategic hex.

 

[mike wightman]

remember that in T20, with typical Merchant Sensors you can only see into the next strategic hex.

Wrong , you can see beyond that, into the next range band with a -2 to skill checks, then the next at -4 etc.

 

[Whipsnade]

Originally posted by xdiox:
This may seem silly but I need to know:

Xidox,

No question is silly.

1. Can a qualified individual be both the pilot/astrogator or pilot/engineer?

Sure, why not? Whether they can do the jobs at the same time is another question! Canon says a Suleiman scout/courier can be flown by one man. Not well perhaps, but it can be done.

2. Does the engineer stay on the bridge during in-system/jump, or in the engine room?

IMTU, he is in the engine room. The answer for for TU may be different.

I have a campaign going where one player has pilot/astrogation and the other has pilot/engineering. I need to figure out if we need to put in an npc for one of the crew jobs. Medic is covered by another player.

Well, the answer to that question lays in just what sort of adventures you'll be throwing at your players. Bhoins points out the obvious neccessity of larger crews when engaging in ship to ship combat. Will your PCs see a lot of ship combat? Or will they be more involved in speculative trading? The choice is your's.

Look at what a normal interstellar trip entails. Your PCs travel out past the jump limit, engage their drive, spend a week in jump space, exit jump space, and travel in to the port. The amount of time they spend in normal space is rather tiny when compared to the 168 hours they are in jump space and in jump space they are safe from anything they didn't bring with them!

In a trade-heavy/combat-light campaign, your players 'small' crew could work very well. The pilot/astrogator mans the bridge during the trun to the limit while the pilot/engineer gets the jump drive ready and your medic handles the {few} passengers. Once they're in jump sapce, the p/a and p/e stand 'six and sixes' on the bridge while the medic gets stuck handling the (few) passengers.

(I'd hire a steward, but that just me. I like more PC/NPC interaction and less boom-boom-bang. Don't get me wrong, boom-boom-bang is lots of fun too. You'll need some NPCs for it though.)

So, is it combat or trade or a mix of the two? Will the PCs need to use their turrets that often? Will they think they need to use their turrets that often? You could make their search for the right kind of NPCs; i.e. proper skills, loyal, and cheap, part of the campaign too.


Have fun,
Bill

 

[BetterThanLife]

Originally posted by Sigg Oddra:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />remember that in T20, with typical Merchant Sensors you can only see into the next strategic hex.

Wrong , you can see beyond that, into the next range band with a -2 to skill checks, then the next at -4 etc. </font>[/QUOTE]Only if you are looking there, or someone from there sweeps you with active sensors. Normal sensor watch is going to be at normal sensor ranges. Of course if you have a reason to look, then you can make the roll at the above penalty. Of course that is my interpretation and YMMV.

Looking in 3D in an area as big as a Strategic hex on each side of you. (Basically in 12-36 directions or so.) is a big area to cover. The Computer, unless there is some significant reason to look there, is going to handle the routine task. Of course doing a full active sensor sweep is generally considered unfriendly and possibly rude if you happen to actively sweep a ship, and it also happens to light your ship up like a Christmas Tree or an FMS.

 

[far-trader]

Originally posted by Bhoins:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by far-trader:


So for a 200T two gunned merchant with high passagengers I'd go with:

Pilot /(Astrogator)
Steward /(Communications)
Medic /(Sensors)
Engineer /(Computer)
Gunner /(Damage Ctrl)
Gunner /(Damage Ctrl)

Note the bracketed assignments are pretty secondary and proably wouldn't earn full extra pay or impact the performance of the regular assignment in the normal course of operations. Some are an either/or choice and others are incidental.

The biggest problem with those crew assignments is that you have taken lost staterooms that normally would carry High Passengers. (And cut even deeper into your nonexistant profit margins.) My Crew of 4 works, but in combat it is stretched a bit tight. Your crew of 6 is much more flexible when it comes to combat, however it isn't as if a Merchant goes looking for trouble.</font>[/QUOTE]You're assuming I'm a nice Captain/Pilot who let's the crew have private staterooms

I'm not

The Gunners would be double occupancy with the Steward and Engineer (probably) so no passenger staterooms are lost (that would be a silly business idea fer sure). And those (usually) lay about Gunners would be doubling as cargo loaders in port too so I don't have to hire the locals and have them coming and going on my ship.

Nah, I wouldn't go looking for trouble in a regular Far-Trader either, but sometimes trouble comes looking for you. And when it does it's nice to have something more than empty turrets or the steward and medic on your guns to bluff or fight your way out.

In any case it was just an example showing an armed ship, yours of the Merc Cruiser is better.

 

[Whipsnade]

Originally posted by Bhoins:
Looking in 3D in an area as big as a Strategic hex on each side of you.

Bhoins,

3D? Is space combat and space travel in T20 3D? Did they do an update of Triplanetary?

Or did you just rope in the extra dimension all Traveller rule sets ignore in order to inflate the numbers to support your point?


Have fun,
Bill

 

[TaoNeutrino]

Just a couple quick notes from the T20 book.

1. You don't need and engineer on a far trader because it has fewer than 35 tons of jump drive. But having one doesn't hurt.

2. You don't need a communications officer on a ship under 1000 tons.

3. #2 frees the steward's secondary responsibility and he can then double as the medical officer.

Therefore:
Your far trader *can* get by with a crew of two: Pilot/Astrogator, Medic/Steward. Your gunners could server double duty as onboard security and cargo handlers when loading and unloading cargo. IMTU shoreside labor is expensive and, coupled with other shipboard duties, makes having cargo handlers as crew economically sensible.

 

[BetterThanLife]

Originally posted by Bill Cameron:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bhoins:
Looking in 3D in an area as big as a Strategic hex on each side of you.

Bhoins,

3D? Is space combat and space travel in T20 3D? Did they do an update of Triplanetary?

Or did you just rope in the extra dimension all Traveller rule sets ignore in order to inflate the numbers to support your point?


Have fun,
Bill </font>[/QUOTE]No Bill I am not inflating my numbers to support my point, just adding a reason the rules might exist as they do.

The table on page 147 clearly states that detection range is limited to 15,000KM for model 1 sensors. You can roll with penalities for further ranges, but unless you detect that something is out there you have to have a reason to look in that direction.

Further your snide comment aside, show me where, in LBB5 it isn't 3D combat? It isn't there.

(Of course it doesn't state anything about dimensions of combat as there is no maneuver. It is simply long or short range.)

Since Space is obviously 3D, and Traveller has traditionally abstracted it to 2D or 1D for playability purposes, that doesn't invalidate the fact that space is 3D and something has to account for blind Merchants. BTW since 3 points determine a plane, 2 ships in combat can be simplified as 2D combat as the plane of combat constantly would shift to allow such a perception.

 

[archhealer]

Also, it was my interpretation that the crew requirements are largely a legal matter, and only one rank in a relavent skill is required (Engineer must have T/engineering, for example). So, it's more than reasonable to have the your steward, medic, and astrogator all also be pilots, thus allowing them to do shifts, and spread redundant skills between them, such that maybe the steward and the medic both have gunnery skills, the medic and the astrogator both have some tech skills, the steward and the astrogator can both handle the more tricky aspects of piloting and astrogation. That'd meet the legal requirements, (assuming you care about them) and allow a few people to fairly effectively run a ship. Also, as has already been stated, the amount of time spent flying around normal space is minimal, and in jump space, does the pilot even need to do anything? I rather assumed that while in jump (If everything goes well) the ship just kinda drifts along on it's own.

 

[endersg]

Typically, you don't need a regular watch cycle with the old 3 hour or so trip to safe jump and back. No one is going to get fatigued or bored in three hours what with the excitement of taking off, clearing orbital control, stowing cargo, settling passengers, etc.

The trick and the danger is the Inner/Outer 1 to 4d trip to the nearest gas giant. That's where the real danger of being jumped lies since no system defense boat will be in range to help unless they have a good patrol schedule.

Now, you could do what the crew in Firefly does and just put the ship on autopilot, go to bed, and wait for the proximity alarm to go off (I would say base sensor range for this) or you could have one pilot/sensor guy man the bridge waiting for trouble.

I would never leave the bridge unmanned unless it was an extremely safe system.

 

[Lochlaber]

Day to day operations vs Battle Stations, that is how you should look at how you set your crew responsibilities.

Day to day, your gunner could work as a steward, medic, asst engineer, supportm, etc., all jobs which could be ignored during an actual battle.

In port, he could easily then handle the job as security, longshoreman, etc..

Just remember that if a crewman is doing multiple jobs, they get paid more. The book gives a formula of adding up all the salaries, then paying 75% of the total.

To keep it fair, I would take the 2 highest jobs and combine them for the 75% salary, then 50-75% of the actual costs from the book for longshoreman type duties.


To keep a captain rom becoming too much of a pocket tyrant, I would suggest that you
I would suggest that you do this solely for shipboard/space jobs and then pay seperately for longshoreman duties, etc..

 

[marvo]

Here's something else to consider. On a small ship with all crew doing some form of double duty, the Navy feat "Cross Training" becomes really usefull.

IMTU the captain and the chief engineer get their own cabins, everyone else doubles up. Untaken passenger staterooms are often used for storing small, usually speculative, cargo (think UPS truck). Sometimes they pile boxes in the common areas, corridors and airlocks. Not the safest thing to do, but cargo space is money.