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CT Only: First Scout/Courier

I am in the process of making an adventure that revolves around the first Scout/Courier (Book-2 design). Looking through my LBBs I have found that the design has been in use for over a century and estimates of 15-30K in use by the Imperium with over a thousand in service within the Spinward Marches.

So...what to name it? Would "Sulieman" be the first of this century+ production run of ships or is that simply the current/updated version of the design?
 
IMHO
Sulieman is the name of the most recent TL12 design class. The very first scout ship version would have probably been TL10 (an early prototype with an experimental J2 drive) and could have been named anything.

Of course this is just my opinion, I do not know of any canon reference to this sort of topic.
 
The Book 2 Type S is literally just a listing of design decisions. That's all of the Types, really.

Class names didn't appear until other sources started to engage in setting building. The "classic" Scout we identify as the Sulieman was either the third or fourth to see publication, and it was GDW's second try. The Judges Guild Scout and the Snapshot Scout precede it, and the Judges Guild Scout was clearly the inspiration for the Sulie, as the JG Scout served GDW as external artwork until they finalized the Sulie and produced external art for it specifically. GDW may have produced more exterior art for the JG Scout than JG did...

The fourth version in that timeframe was the Serpent, by Paranoia Press.
 
IMHO
Sulieman is the name of the most recent TL12 design class. The very first scout ship version would have probably been TL10 (an early prototype with an experimental J2 drive) and could have been named anything.

Of course this is just my opinion, I do not know of any canon reference to this sort of topic.
And it might not look at all like any of the canonical versions. Tailsitter prolate spheroid*, anyone? At TL-10 (11) the first time around, they're not going to have been confident in getting J2 with a complex-shaped Jump Field. The first J2 hulls will have been configured as sphere, flattened sphere, and maybe cylinder IMHO.
The Book 2 Type S is literally just a listing of design decisions. That's all of the Types, really.


* Example: the ball in American-rules Football.
 
How far back do you want to go?
  • Traveller20 called them Type-S in Gateway Quadrant in the 990's just like everyone else. Same performance and config as Classic Traveller
  • T4 which takes place in 0 at the dawn of the Third Imperium call them Type S scout/couriers are a sensible old Terran design the Syleans build. Same performance and config as Classic Traveller
  • In GURPS Traveller: Intersteller Wars they are the IIKEN-CLASS 100-DTON SCOUT/COURIER. A Vilani Imperium (1st Imperium) design that has been in existence for at least 2000 (around -4346) years prior to the campaign date of 2173AD(-2346). Same performance and config as Classic Traveller:
The Imperium mixes the functions of picket vessel and naval courier in the Iiken-class scout/courier ship. This is one of the oldest ship designs in Imperial service; it was first manufactured over 2,000 years ago, during the Consolidation Wars.
Hundreds of Iiken-class ships can be found in any Imperial subsector, even on the rimward frontier. Most are in Imperial Navy service, but some are actually in private hands.
As a matter of long-standing tradition, a mid-level Imperial naval officer with an exemplary record will sometimes be issued a surplus Iiken when he leaves active service. Naval pensions being what they are, this is often the only way that a retired officer from the manager classes can afford personal interstellar transportation. The “detached duty” Iiken ships receive limited maintenance support from the Navy, making private operation even easier. In exchange, the retired officer operating the ship must report regularly to Navy intelligence officials on anything “interesting” he may encounter. Meanwhile, if war breaks out in the region, a detached-duty officer and his Iiken are subject to being recalled for active service.
Meanwhile, a number of Iiken class ships have been captured or otherwise acquired by Terrans over the years. Just as in the Imperium, some of these have been “excessed” into civilian hands. - p.205
 
IMHO
Sulieman is the name of the most recent TL12 design class. The very first scout ship version would have probably been TL10 (an early prototype with an experimental J2 drive) and could have been named anything.

Pretty much what I was leaning toward...Sully being the more recent/updated version.

How far back do you want to go?

Just sticking with LBBs. So far I have gleaned "over a century" so I'm spitballing at a ship that is 125 years old.
 
sticking with LBBs. So far I have gleaned "over a century" so I'm spitballing at a ship that is 125 years old.

The Sulie is the version seen in Traders & Gunboats, aside from that little thumbnail pic, which is the JG version. I doubt you'll get any guff for claiming those have been around a while. I operate on the idea that the TL9 version is the Scout Service's way of making sure even the most backwoods A Port can partake of Imperial shipbuilding contracts, and having a simple hull is part of that.
 
The Sulie is the version seen in Traders & Gunboats, aside from that little thumbnail pic, which is the JG version. I doubt you'll get any guff for claiming those have been around a while. I operate on the idea that the TL9 version is the Scout Service's way of making sure even the most backwoods A Port can partake of Imperial shipbuilding contracts, and having a simple hull is part of that.

It also means that any Class A Port can fix them if necessary.
Definitionally, Class A means ability to build and repair starships. Even on worlds below TL-9, the starport itself must have at least TL-9 available, even if it's not produced domestically.

And contra what I posted above, if you're building a scenario around a search for the "first Type S", it probably will be one of the canon designs rather than something unusual. There will have been other ships before it with identical specs, but not of the same "standard design type".
 
And it might not look at all like any of the canonical versions. Tailsitter prolate spheroid*, anyone? At TL-10 (11) the first time around, they're not going to have been confident in getting J2 with a complex-shaped Jump Field. The first J2 hulls will have been configured as sphere, flattened sphere, and maybe cylinder IMHO.



* Example: the ball in American-rules Football.

7a10961e4f85cb0faa2bdfdc9da3efd0.jpg
 

I found a set of deckplans I drew up back in the mid-80s for a Type S as a tailsitter 2:1 prolate spheroid.

Basically, most of the bridge and all of the living quarters and the engine room were a cylinder along the main axis inside the spheroid. Made the math a little easier.

Main bits of weirdness were that it had way too much cargo space (I think I was using LBB5 power plant fuel allocation) and that I made the double turret into two half-ton single turrets to ensure 360-degree coverage. For some reason I thought that was important, but it threw me off when I saw it again decades later, since I didn't remember whether I was using LBB2/HG or my ref's house rules to do the design.

I don't have image posting privileges and don't have a file-hosting service so you'll just have to use your imagination. It's probably better that way -- I was a fair draftsman, but I could do a lot better today. :)
 
I found a set of deckplans I drew up back in the mid-80s for a Type S as a tailsitter 2:1 prolate spheroid.

Basically, most of the bridge and all of the living quarters and the engine room were a cylinder along the main axis inside the spheroid. Made the math a little easier.
Mis-remembered it (was thinking of a different design). Bridge, crew quarters, and cargo (cargo bay and Air/Raft) were on full-diameter decks. I think I'll keep that.
Main bits of weirdness were that it had way too much cargo space (I think I was using LBB5 power plant fuel allocation) and that I made the double turret into two half-ton single turrets to ensure 360-degree coverage. For some reason I thought that was important, but it threw me off when I saw it again decades later, since I didn't remember whether I was using LBB2/HG or my ref's house rules to do the design.
Turns out it was absolutely the ref's house rules. Two computers, two actual turrets, six staterooms, and a bizarrely small fuel tank (except it wasn't fuel -- the house rules used atomic batteries of some sort). I'm sure it made sense at the time...
I don't have image posting privileges and don't have a file-hosting service so you'll just have to use your imagination. It's probably better that way -- I was a fair draftsman, but I could do a lot better today. :)
I figured out how to post images, and I can do better, and am working on it right now.
...Except I'm working with MS Paint, so it might take a while. :rant:

And I'm running into the usual tailsitter issues. The cargo bay, main personnel airlock, and Air/Raft niche are 12m off the ground when the ship is parked. The dirtside personnel entrance is 6M off the ground with a ladder down one of the landing gear legs... (either that or people walk in through the drive bay, but that'd just be weird).

Also, I'm trying to decide how to lay out the crew quarters. If the ship was designed for Scout Service work, there's no reason not to put all the staterooms on a single deck since the crew is trustworthy. If it's for nominally commercial service, it might be preferable to move some of the Bridge tonnage into the upper crew deck and displace a couple of staterooms into the next deck down, so there's a bulkhead and a lockable hatch between the passengers and the flight crew quarters/bridge. Neither version makes for an interesting batteground for Snapshot or the AHL combat rules -- really short fields of fire, limited cover, and few alternate routes to sneak around through.

Then there's the question of whether I draw it as though there is artificial gravity available. If it's available and reliable, elevators might not be needed -- just ladder shafts kept at 0.1G while the rest of the ship is at 1G. If it's not, how does the Air/Raft even work? Maybe it's a ground car or helicopter instead, which means you've got to hoist it up to its parking space...
 
Well Grav, if you haven't seen this page, it settled most of my 100 dton tailsitter golfball woes.


http://juliahwest.com/Traveller/Peter_Vernon/golfballs.html


IMTU these golfballs are the tailsitter no artificial gravity fission powered ships, strip out the J-drive for TL8, standard for TL9, and then the belly landers start showing up at TL10 when a minimum of artificial gravity and inertial compensation becomes possible.
 
Well Grav, if you haven't seen this page, it settled most of my 100 dton tailsitter golfball woes.


http://juliahwest.com/Traveller/Peter_Vernon/golfballs.html


IMTU these golfballs are the tailsitter no artificial gravity fission powered ships, strip out the J-drive for TL8, standard for TL9, and then the belly landers start showing up at TL10 when a minimum of artificial gravity and inertial compensation becomes possible.
I've seen it; pretty cool.

Tailsitters are nice because you can use them without invoking artificial gravity. On the other hand, if you have it then they're just using artificial gravity more efficiently (it only needs to pull "up", to counteract all but 1G of acceleration, instead of "forward" and "sideways" aka "up").

And I figured out how to get down from way up there on the personnel decks. The elevator shaft telescopes down to ground level, passing through a bit of the drive bay on the way out. Basically, where the golf ball at your link has the external iris valve below the engineering deck, there's a hatch hinged at the top that swings out to allow the elevator tube to protrude. The elevator doors do not open to the engineering deck directly; instead, it stops one level above (at the fuel deck level) so personnel can exit the elevator into a space with a floor hatch to the engineering deck. However, when the elevator tube is retracted, it exposes a hatch in the side of the engineering deck. This allows bringing drive components directly into the drive bay to facilitate repairs.

Here's a rough sketch. (The blue rectangle at the equator is the turret; I'm posting some scribbles from my work in progress.)

Note that there's space to extend the elevator to the top deck (the bridge "cockpit"). Security issues suggest that this might not be advisable.
1_Tailsitter_Scribbles.jpg
 
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You could look to the real world for inspiration. A quick search will show you the plans and a concept cut away for the Space X Lunar Lander and Mars Lander Starship variants.
 
You could look to the real world for inspiration. A quick search will show you the plans and a concept cut away for the Space X Lunar Lander and Mars Lander Starship variants.

Looks like they're using built-in cranes to get equipment and personnel down past the fuel-tanks-and-engines stack, from a quick look. Sensible approach, and I'm not sure how else you'd do it.
 
Looks like they're using built-in cranes to get equipment and personnel down past the fuel-tanks-and-engines stack, from a quick look. Sensible approach, and I'm not sure how else you'd do it.


It's pretty much Space Angel territory, tailsitter gantries.


18SFP33_Starduster_01.jpg

OTOH, convenient multi-point access when docking with a space station. It's just on planets that there would be grief.


And of course past a certain point, no structures just grav barges to load/unload at each level.
 
It's pretty much Space Angel territory, tailsitter gantries.

Spoiler:

18SFP33_Starduster_01.jpg

OTOH, convenient multi-point access when docking with a space station. It's just on planets that there would be grief.


And of course past a certain point, no structures just grav barges to load/unload at each level.
The Type S could get by with a boom lift
Genie-S-45-Boom-Lift.jpg

But you're going to need a heck of a K-Loader for a tailsitter Free Trader.
Tunner-000198a.jpg
 
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