Fixing T5 - AMMUNITION

[Supplement Four]

Note: My original idea was to include all T5 Fix ideas from myself and others in one thread, but in the light of a new morning, I see that there are so many issues and so much discussion that a thread like that would become unmanageable for a T5 Ref to navigate. So, I think it more appropriate that each Fix topic have its own thread. All are welcome to comment or post alternative ideas.






- AMMUNITION -



Problem: T5 doesn't track the use of ammunition. In the game, a character is always assumed to have enough ammo for the type of shot he is making. Thus, characters are allowed to fire so often that they could theoretically fire more ammunition than the character could possibly carry.





Solution: Every attack task is made with one die designated as the ammo die. This die will indicate if/when the character has emptied his weapon.





The Ammo Die: The Ref will assign a number (1-6) to the weapon based on the size of the weapon's magazine. When this number, or less, appears on the ammo die, the character has spent a magazine firing the weapon. AD=6 (6 on the ammo die) means that a magazine is emptied every time the weapon is fired (as with a single shot Derringer).

When assigning the AD number, the Ref should also consider that T5 uses an abstract combat round. Thus, during a round, a character could pull the trigger on this weapon several times. One attack does not mean necessarily mean that the weapon was operated only once. An attack throw can represent a single shot or multiple pulls of the trigger.

It is assumed that characters will conserve ammo as best they can, and thus, for many weapons, AD=1 is appropriate. This means that a character will empty his weapon when the ammo die lands on a 1 (regardless of whether the attack succeeded or not--bullets are still spent missing the target).

If burst fire is used, then increase the weapon's AD code by +1. If Full automatic fire is used, then increase AD by +2. See page 256 for a description of Burst and Fully Automatic fire.

Thus, with many weapons a roll on the ammo die means:

1 = Replace Magazine
2 = Replace Magazine if Burst Fire used.
3 = Replace Magazine if Full Fire used.
4 = Magazine not emptied.
5 = Magazine not emptied.
6 = Magazine not emptied.

Weapons with large magazine capacity are typically capable of Burst or Full Fire only. With a large capacity weapon that is capable of Single Fire, the Ref may assign the AD=0 code, which means, as long as the character fires the weapon in Single Fire mode, he will not have to replace the magazine during the combat. The rule for Burst Fire (+1 AD) and Full Fire (+2 AD) are used, though.





Optional Rule: Multiple Magazines.

Since we are dealing with an abstract combat round that can be fairly long in length (averages one minute), a character could only fire his weapon once, or he could fire the weapon multiple times, then reload the weapon, then fire the weapon some more, reload again, and fire some more. Conceiveably, a character could burn through several magazines in a single combat round. This optional rule accounts for those occurences.

When ever the ammo die both indicates a magazine is emptied and that die is matched by one or more dice on the attack throw, then a magazine is used for each matching dice.

For example, consider an automatic pistol rated at AD=1. Single Fire is used, and on the attack throw, the result is 1ad, 1 with a "1" on the ammo die. This means 2 magazines have been used up that combat round.





Weapon Ammo Capacity: Weapons in T5 are not listed with magazne capacity as with other editions of Traveller. Turn to page 248. There, you will see some example magazines for various weapons. Using the examples as a baseline, the Ref extrapolates and determines the magazine size of any weapon. Using this information, the Ref can then determine the weapon's AD code.

Examples

Rifle pictured on page 241 uses a 30 round magazine. See example E on page 248.

The TL 12 Gauss Rifle pictured on page 246 uses a 100 round magazine. See example R on page 248.

The ImP-6 shown on page 244 is also known as a "staple gun". It uses a 200 round magazine. See example S on page 248.

The TL 11 Precision Hunting Carbine shown on page 245 uses a 200 round magazine. See example L on page 248.

Some weapons with listed magazine size are shown on page 236.

Note: Many weapons can be fitted with different size magazines. On page 248, a 10 round, 20 round, and two 30 round magazines are pictured for the 8mm Battle Rifle. A weapon's AD code can change depending on the size of the magazine used.





Magazine Weight: As with magazine capacity, the Ref will determine the weight of a weapon's magazine (used when calculating character load) by extrapolation and comparison of the images on page 248. I will give you a couple of benchmarks below. Studious Refs may notate each of the page 248 examples with actual mass in kg.

Page 248 Benchmarks

Example A = 1/1
Example D = 2/1
Example H = 3/1

Example N = 2/1
Example P = 1/1
Example Q = 1/2

Magazines per kg. Example A means that 1 magazine weighs approximately 1 kg. Example H means that 3 magazines weigh about 1 kg. Example Q means that 1 magazine weighs about 2 kgs.

Note that the magazine in the weapon is not counted. Its mass is considered in the mass of the weapon. When figuring magazine weight, only consider the number of extra magazine the character is carrying.





Special Note For Some Single Shot Weapons: Some weapons will not need an AD code. For example, it will be easy to keep track of how many 4cm grenades are fired from the underbarrel of an ACR. Some shoulder fired missiles are single use weapons. The Ref will decide which weapons fall into this category.





Weapon LongName and AD Code: Once the Ref decides on an AD code for a weapon, record it in the weapon's LongName for further game reference. The AD Code becomes part of the weapon's description. Also list the weapon's magazine capacity. See page the description of a weapon's LongName on page 242.

 

[Supplement Four]

- EXAMPLES -



Example 1: Let's do the first example in the Personal Combat chapter of T5, page 212. Zolomion Shoul encounters his old enemy Morio on the streets of startown.

Zolomion is using a revolver, and the Fighting Task from the example is 2D for 16 or less.

The Ref has rated Zolomion's revoler as a standard six round cylinder. The weapon is only capable of Single Fire (see page 256), and the Ref rates the weapon at AD=2.

Why AD=2? The weapon is not capable of Burst of Full Fire, but the magazine size is small. So, the Ref decided that a 1-in-3 chance, every combat round, of using up all six bullets is appropriate.

Once the Ref has assigned an AD code to a weapon, the code should be listed in the weapon's LongName (see page 242) for future reference.

In Combat Round 1, Zolomion makes an attack with the revolver, throwing 2D, and getting 2ad, 6. The "2" on the ammo die means that Zolomion fired all six rounds and has reloaded. The player should mark off one revolver speed loader from Zolomion's equipment.

In Combat Round 2, Zolomion makes another attack, rolling 2D and getting 5ad, 1. This means that Zolomion did not use up all six bullets during that combat round.

In Combat Round 3, Zolomion makes his third attack. He rolls 2D, getting 2ad, 2. If we use the Optional Mutli-Mag Rule, this means that Zolomion went through two speed loaders that round. If we're not using that optional rule, then Zolomion only used up one magazine in combat round three.







Example 2: In this example, I'm going to use the ACR-10 from page 240. This weapon is pictured on page 238. The Ref decides that this weapon uses a magazine similar to Example E on page 248, and thus, the Ref decides that 2 extra magazines weight 1 kg. The magazine holds 30 rounds, and the weapon is capable of Single, Burst, and Full Fire.

The Ref assigns the weapon the code of AD=1.

On Combat Round 1, the weapon is used to fire a Burst at a Medium Range target. This is a 3D task that is increased to 4D because the Auto Fire attack type is used. The 4D attack throw results in 1ad, 2, 2, 1. This means that one magazine was used that combat round. If the Optional Multi-Mag rule is used, this means that two magazines were used that combat round.

On Combat Round 2, the weapon is again used to fire at a target at Medium Range, but the attacker has switched his weapon to the Single Fire mode. This is a 3D attack, and the results of the throw are 1ad, 3, 2. This means that one magazine was used that round.

On Combat Round 3, the attacker's new target is at Long Range. Using Single Fire, the attack is done at a 4D difficulty. The dice show 5ad, 4, 5, 3, which means that the attacker did not use a magazine this rouund.







Example 3: For this example, let's use the TL-11 Precision Hunting Rifle shown on page 236. The Ref decides that this weapon has a magazine exactly like Example L on page 248. Comparing the benchmark magazines, the Ref declares that this magazine weighs 2 kgs and holds 200 rounds. But, since the character is not carrying any extra magazines, so the weight of the weapon's magazine is not considered agains the character's load as the magazine's weight is part of the weapon's weight.

The Ref decides that the weapon is capable of Single and Burst Fire. Because of the weapon's ammo capacity and rate of fire capability, the Ref determines that this weapon be rated at AD=0. That is to say, this weapon will not run out of ammo during a combat as long as Single Fire is always used.

If Burst Fire is used, then the weapon's code becomes AD=1. If the weapon is used several times for burst fire without using up the magazine, and then the character switches to Single Fire, the Ref may modify the Single Fire code to AD=1 to take in the chance that the weapon may run out of ammo.

In Combat Round 1, the weapon is used for Single Fire. At AD=0, the ammo die is not referenced.

In fact, the ammo die is never referenced with this weapon unless something changes for the Ref to declare that the weapon is rated at AD=1 or higher.

 

[SmilingKnight]

You could handle it the way that the heavy gear miniature games handle it. Your measure of success determines whether or not you used up your clip.

 

[robject]

You could handle it the way that the heavy gear miniature games handle it. Your measure of success determines whether or not you used up your clip.

I was actually thinking exactly that last night. But... does success mean you've used a clip, or failure?

 

[SmilingKnight]

Failure should. A bad roll would be laying down a spray and draining the clip, while a good one shows the same shots accomplished with precision bursts and conserving ammo.

 

[Apparition]

Failure should. A bad roll would be laying down a spray and draining the clip, while a good one shows the same shots accomplished with precision bursts and conserving ammo.

Failing to hit does not necessarily mean you are shooting poorly or failing to maintain trigger discipline. For example: What if your opponent is behind good cover, and you cannot get a clear shot and therefore do not fire, or fire very little when you feel you have a shot, but still miss. You failed to hit and spent no or little ammo. I don't think that success and ammo usage should be correlated in this system.

 

[BytePro]

I've done similar things in the past. Given the system, for certain types of firing (burst/full) I'd tend to simply go with success indicating partial clip and failure meaning tick off a full clip. However, there are a lot of conditionals to account. Individual rounds I would track differently depending on nature of action.

Ex: Taking careful aim and firing off once - ala a sniping attempt, or when low on ammo. Versus providing covering fire - by emptying a clip. Versus full suppressive fire. DMs should differentiate these actions. In abstract round unit confrontations, some rounds could actually use up more than one clip.

Its a tricky balance in letting dice determine what happened, vs. using dice to tell how well intended actions worked out. IME, one size fits all is often too simple to accommodate roleplay. On the other hand, rules detailed and flexible enough are fiendishly complex, time consuming and generally not conducive to fun roleplay.

Other than the (wonky, IMO) 3 natural 1s/6s, it doesn't sound like T5 mechanics support any degree of success/failure.

 

[SmilingKnight]

Well in reference to the heavy gear system where you throw multiple dice, but only take the best, on any ranged combat where you are going to use semi-auto, or full auto, take the lowest die you roll (i.e. the best die) and comparing it to this which I just made up, out of ammo on the following:
Semi-auto on an automatic machine gun: 4+
Semi-auto on an automatic hand gun 3+
Full auto on machine gun: 3+
Full auto on handgun 2+

This way, you can still miss but not run out of ammo. I think the idea is sound, but the numbers will need testing

edit: it also means you can hit, and run out of ammo, which makes sense with automatic weapons

 

[Murdoc]

S4: These rules seem pretty reasonable and I will probably suggest trying them out to my group, as long as we are using the 1 minutes rounds anyway. Well done.

 

[Supplement Four]

S4: These rules seem pretty reasonable and I will probably suggest trying them out to my group, as long as we are using the 1 minutes rounds anyway. Well done.

Thanks. If you use them, please let me know how they play.

 

[HG_B]

Failure should. A bad roll would be laying down a spray and draining the clip,

What happens if you state they you refuse to "drain your magazine" in one go?

 

[Vladika]

A professional soldier can control his fire. An amateur mostly can not.

After experiences (all to many) in the Vietnam conflict, troops would fire full auto, at nothing, most often out of panic. Occasionally under the misguided idea that they were using "suppressive" fire. The problem became one of nearly every member of a unit fast running out of ammo. Those units were occasionally annihilated, by much smaller forces, before resupply could occur. In addition, resupply itself was overtaxed and all to often destroyed.


The US Army eventually removed the ability of the M16 to fire on full auto. Most every military has done the same. The weapon is now only capable of single shot or burst fire (2-3 rounds per trigger pull). This conserves ammo, and saves lives.

 

[Supplement Four]

Licheking has an interesting take on creating ammo capacity for T5 weapons. LOOK HERE.

 

[Supplement Four]

For those who want to keep the system VERY abstract and not worry too much about tracking ammo, here's a very, very simple, simple mechanic to use.

Designate two dice from the T5 attack throw as the "ammo dice". Use different colored dice, if desired. These dice will be counted as a whole for the attack task and counted alone, separate from the other task dice, for ammo tracking.

Whenever the two ammo dice show as doubles, a magazine is used. No matter the weapon.

If 1,1 or 2,2, or 3,3, or 4,4, or 5,5, or 6,6 show up on the ammo dice, a magazine has been used.



For weapons that typically spend more ammo (Burst or automatic fire)--or as a variant of the above--consider the number of the doubles to indicate how many magazines have been used.

If 1,1 is rolled, then 1 magazine is emptied.

If 2,2 is rolled, then 2 magazines are emptied.

If 3,3 is rolled, then 3 magazines are emptied.

And so on.





A Ref can alter the number of magazines used to suit his taste. For example, if AimedFire is used, then consider any double result on the ammo dice to indicate a single magazine is used.

If SnapFire or AutoFire is used, then consider the number of the doubles to be also the number of magazines used.



If the Ref thinks 6 magazines is too much (I don't--doubles have to pop up on the ammo dice, and they have to show 6), then he can lower the result. Cut in in half so that 1 or 2 = 1. 3 or 4 = 2. 5 or 6 = 3.

Or, a Ref can use the character's skill to reduce the number of magazine's used, reflecting how experience leads to ammo conservation. Thus, if a character has Pistol-3, he will empty 1 magazine on results of 1, 2, 3, or 4. 2 mags on a result of 5. And, 3 mags on a result of 6.



It's a simple mechanic that Ref's can modifiy to account for attack type, attacker skill, or some other modifier.



Ammo Code: If a Ref wants to regulate ammo use with regards to specific weapons, he simply needs to write an Ammo Code along with the weapon's extension. For example, the ammo code M=3+ could be added to a weapon with a large magazine. This ammo code means that doubles of 3, 4, 5, or 6 will be ignored, and thus, only doubles of 1 or 2 will designate the emptying of a magazine.

 

[Supplement Four]

Here's an example of one of the options I suggest to track ammo immediately above.

Consider Sergeant Jon Locke from page 213 of T5. 888747 Fighting-1, Slug-Thrower-2. He makes an attack at Medium Range, using AimedFire, firing at Darrian Mercenaries.

S-R = 5-3 = 2
C+S = 8 + 3 = 11
Speed=0

3D < 13


Two of the 3D being thrown for the task are the ammo dice. They are counted, together with the third dice, to determine the outcome of the task. As the task is thrown, the player will also look at just the two designated ammo dice to check and see if they are doubles. If they are, then at least one magazine has been spent.

With AimedFire, only one magazine can be spent, regardless of the doubles that appear.



With SnapFire or AutoFire, a number of magazines equal to the doubles number, minus the character's skill (to a minimum of 1), are emptied.

Sergeant Locke has Fighting-1 and Slug-Thrower-2, thus he's at Skill-3. This means 3 will be deducted from the number of magazines spent.

If the ammo dice show 1,1, or 2,2, or 3,3, or 4,4, then 1 magazine is empited.

If the ammo dice show 5,5, then 2 magazines are emptied.

If the ammo dice show 6,6, then 3 magazines are emptied.

 

[Ulsyus]

For those who want to keep the system VERY abstract and not worry too much about tracking ammo, here's a very, very simple, simple mechanic to use.

This is a really neat idea - I'm going to try it out with the guys using your original concept of 1 ammo dice, but rolled when they try to hit. Thanks mate!