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For my next trick.... design philosophy.

CarlP

SOC-11
Okay, after doing the Azhanti High Lightning, I am no longer afraid of the piddling little ships any more. :) So, I'm thinking about doing up a couple of designs that I've toyed with over the years: The old Battlemech dropships Union and Overlord (a 3,500-ton and a 9,700-ton ship, respectively).

I won't be doing them as mech-carrying ships, of course. But I always liked those hulls, especially the Overlord. I figured I'd do each of these as a heavy combat vessel, and as a transport vessel (much like I did a merchant version of the Broadsword).

These will be the biggest ship plans that I'll be doing up from scratch. It will be an adventure.

This brings up another thought, too. I've got a design philosophy I use with a lot of the warships. I like using common hulls, to make it more difficult for an opposing force to identify a ship. Much like the Germans did in WW2--look at the profile of the Bismarck/Tirpitz, and compare it to the Prinz Eugen--it's the same. So you don't know if it's a super-battleship or a cruiser.

The same way, I want to do a heavy warship based on the Overlord, a fast warship in the same hull, and a combat transport. The heavy warship would be a battleship, with lots of weapons and armor, and less powerful drives. The fast warship (the battle cruiser) keeps the same weapons, but reduces armor in favor of bigger drives. And the combat transport has the drives of the battleship, the armor of the battlecruiser, and reduced armament, so it can carry troops and cargo.

Does anybody else set up a design philosophy for their warships anything like this? If not, how do you design your ships?
 
Does anybody else set up a design philosophy for their warships anything like this? If not, how do you design your ships?
when I did a workup of the spinward marches I found the limiting factors were shipyard availability and tech level, with tech level's attendent limit on hull sizes. capital ships had to be of a certain size and configuration, while all the support vessel designs were influenced by their shipyard locations, their capabilities, and their intended deployment.

deceptive tactics are based on sensor capabilities. you'll have to decide on a sensor scheme before you can properly employ any kind of deception.
 
We of the Design Consortium have been laboring for some months on doing "catalogs" of species specific ships, of types given in Book 2 (including smallcraft types... like Lifeboat, cutter, etc...) but rendered in the species equivalents for the race in question... IE, aslan ships "look" aslan, etc.. Most of this builds on work and concepts from all versions of Traveller, but some breaks new ground...

My recent favorite I've seen is the Hiver "Go House" Starship... basically a 100-ton flying domicile... used by Hiver business creatures... the "office" moves from world to world...
 
Awesome... I love the Idea of converting Battletech ships to Traveller.
I know there are very limited deck plans of the Union in the "Luthian" and "Explorer Corp" sourcebooks. I know the Union has and upper and smaller lower mechbay with a crain to move cargo inbetween and can only mechdrop from the lower bay, maybe a version with a battledress morge on the lower deck and a G-Carrier bay above.
You could allso do the Overlord A3 with a missile bay replaceing the big Kracken-TO Launchers.

You Rock
 
One other design idea:

Ships of the same external proportions but different tonnages:
EG, an 800Td Wedge designed to look just like a 100Td Type S wedge... only twice the size in every dimension... That 800 Td Wedge could pop a barbette in the same spot the 100 Td has a turret... This makes visual discrimination and passive discrimination considerably harder; space often lacks good references, and haze distortion.

of course, that 800Td Super Scout would carry a pair of GCarrier, not an Air Raft...

And the Overlord and Union are nice designs. There are battletech-canonical Overlord-CV, Union-CV, and Union Ground designs out there. (The Union Ground carries armor and infantry...)

Battletech has remarkably good ships.
 
Originally posted by Aramis:

And the Overlord and Union are nice designs. There are battletech-canonical Overlord-CV, Union-CV, and Union Ground designs out there. (The Union Ground carries armor and infantry...)

Battletech has remarkably good ships.
Indeed. I have a file around here somewhere that breaks the Invader down into decks. That was some crazy stuff, back when I had more free time...

The various "egg" dropships are what I tend to think of when the "perpendicular deck" crowd gets ranty, but I have a long-time soft spot for the Leopard...
 
Originally posted by Aramis:
One other design idea:

Ships of the same external proportions but different tonnages:
EG, an 800Td Wedge designed to look just like a 100Td Type S wedge... only twice the size in every dimension...
Yes, that's an excellent extrapolation of what I'm already doing. I hadn't explicitly thought of that, though, because I was already using a lot of spheres and egg-shapes.

Oh, btw, do you know if any of the Overlord deckplans are already out on the web? I've had no luck looking. If not that, what books are they in? Thanks.
 
The closest would be in Jumpships & Dropships, and that probably amounts to an exterior view and maybe a partial cut-away...
 
Actually, there was at one point a set of plans produced for the Overlord, by fasa... not given a product number that I'm aware of, it was some form of promotional goodie. I saw a set at a local con. (Mr. Jettrick, who did so much FASA cover art, was in attendance of the local con... he was living in Alaska then.)
 
Just found my copy of Dropships & Jumpships, which states the Overlord is 99 meters across at the widest, and 131 meters tall. That puts it firmly in the 40-50kdton range, and 43 decks tall. Unlike the AHL, there is really no opportunity to reuse decks, and (under Traveller rules, anyway) no real "fuel dodge" available. It carries 36 mechs and 6 fighters.

Converted to Traveller spec, this turns into one scary monitor/carrier, even lacking a spinal mount.
 
I sold my copy of J+D a long time ago, going by the entry in the "Technical Readout 3025" an overlord is only 100 metres long. With an egg shape that still makes an overlord between 20-30 kdTon. Oddly the tonnage listed is 10000 Ton, which isn't a bad size for a translated ship in Traveller.

Weapon wise it isn't really loaded for bear.
I've put in what I think is a relatively close approximation.

6 PPC - 6 PA turret/barbette or 1 50dTon PA Bay
3 LRM20 - 3 * 30 missile batteries or 3 50dTon Missile bay
12 Medium lasers - 4* triple beam turrets
6 large lasers - 2 * triple pulse laser turrets
6 AC/5's - No direct equivalent (vehicle scale in T20 maybe)
2 AC/20's - Again no direct equivalent.

Nearly half the interior space is for holding ground troops, and the ship has more then decent armor, but is quite slow. Add the 6 fighters and more then half of the interior space is in subcraft and hangars.

Now add a Monilith class Battle tender carrying 8 of these (I could be wrong, I think the monolith carries 8) and you have a big enough force to invade a small system.
 
Rather arbitarily I used TL10 and 10,000 dTon as a basis. For the egg shape I used a flatened sphere (think flattened in 2 dimensions rather then 1)

Using Falkyns rather nifty spreadsheet:

Overlord - Dropship Class
Statistics:
10,000-ton Hull (Flattened Sphere) - Streamlined
AC: 15 (7 vs. Meson Guns) AR: 6 (TL-10) SI: 500 Initiative: 1
Starship Size: Huge Cost: 3,176.769 MCr (3,970.961 MCr without discount)
Model/4 (PP: 49/13) Computer Avionics: Less than 10,000-ton Sensors: Long Range Communications: Long Range
Cargo: 5.25-tons Extra Ship's Stores: 500 person/weeks of Luxury Stores, 1,000 person/weeks of Standard Stores,
Annual Maintenance = 317.677 KCr (158.838 KCr if routinely maintained)
Routine Maintenance = 79.419 KCr/Month (794.192 KCr per year)

Performance:
Acceleration: 3-G Agility: 1
Power Plant: TL-10 Fusion (500 EP output, enough fuel for 8 weeks)
Fuel Purification Plant (TL-10, 10hrs per 200 tons of fuel)
Atmospheric Speeds: NOE = 1,175kph Cruising = 3,525kph Maximum = 4,700kmph

Weapons:
30x Triple Missile Rack Turret TL-10 (150 missile magazines)
Missile +3 To Hit, 3d6 (18/x1), Range: 90,000km, Ammo: 3000 missiles
4x Triple Beam Laser Turret TL-10, +3 To Hit, 3d8 (20/x1), Range: 30,000km
6x Triple Pulse Laser Turret TL-10, +3 To Hit, 3d10 (19/x2), Range: 45,000km
6x Barbette Particle Accelerator Turret TL-14, +2 To Hit, 2d12 (17/x1), Range: 30,000km
10x Triple Sandcaster Turret TL-10, +5 AC, Ammo: 600 sand canisters

Ship's Vehicles:
36x 100-ton vehicle hangar
6x 100-ton small craft (Internal Hangar)
1x maintenance shop (20 Mechanics)
Launch facilities for 2 Craft per turn

Accomodations & Fittings:
100x Triple Occupancy Stateroom (300 People)
100x Low Berth (100 People)
1x Engineering Shop (20 Engineers)
1x Sickbay (2 Patients)
1x Airlock

Crew Details:
7x Command Officers, 3x Command Crew
1x Flight Officers, 24x Flight Crew
1x Gunnery Officers, 56x Gunnery Crew
2x Engineering Officers, 16x Engineering Crew
1x Medical Officers, 1x Medical Crew
30x Service Crew


I am not hugely happy with the conversion. It gives a certain resemblence, but there are many holes to pick in it (too much crew space, far too many crew).
 
Originally posted by veltyen:
I sold my copy of J+D a long time ago, going by the entry in the "Technical Readout 3025" an overlord is only 100 metres long. With an egg shape that still makes an overlord between 20-30 kdTon. Oddly the tonnage listed is 10000 Ton, which isn't a bad size for a translated ship in Traveller.
Not at all, but way too small for the stated diameter. If we assume the smaller numbers, then it is somewhere between 20kdtons (an 80m sphere's displacement) and 35kdtons (a 100m sphere's displacement).

For a 10kdton egg, you want about a 53m diameter and 68-70m length. Still 23 decks high...

As for configuration, most of these are still within the realm of Sphere aesthetically, but Flattened Sphere is a good call as well (for the Overlord, Excalibur, and Behemoth, specifically), particularly for available hull length calcs in other editions.
 
Loved the Overlord, kinda OK with the Union and thought the Leopard (and variants) rocked!

Of course we rarely had anywhere near enough moola to afford these beasts, it was all our unit could do to afford parts for our mechs. Fun days tho'.

veltyen, I like the conversion, perhaps more bays and less turrets? That might cut down on the gunnery crew at least. I do like the vehicle hangars, but I'd probably get rid of the triple occupancy staterooms (go for double instead), add in more sickbay room and then reduce the hangars down, as it is they form a very large percentage (42%) of the ship's volume.

I don't want to try the deckplans for this, way too much to do!
 
Hmmm. The role of the Overlord is a combat lander, able to penetrate light resistance and disgorge massive groundforces before either being used as a base of operations, or leaving again. I would have thought that the cargo/vehicle space was a little small if anything.

The triple occupancy is me being forgetful, I forgot to change the occupancy rate. The actual occupancy is my normal value of 3 crew per 2 staterooms.

I'm thinking that a redo with a 30,000 dTon hull
(A more realistic size according to the dimensions as GypsyComet pointed out) and much much more cargo space. Give it some ship troops, split the weapons differently and so on. Maybe make it TL8 rather then TL10.
 
For those interested, I found this great online reference for the Overlord class dropship.

Here are some images (most are from Patrick's Battletech Archive):
BattleSpaceLG.jpg

mchoverlord.gif

mchunion.gif

mchsassanid.gif

mchlion.gif

mchbroadsword.gif

mchfredasa.gif

mchsovetskiisoyuz.gif
 
flykiller is right, as far as "making out" what class a ship belongs to. In space, you are going to rely very little on Mk1 eyeballs to ID a ship. You are going to check it out by shape, mass (gravitometers), electronic output, etc. The difference between a 800dT and 1200dT ship is going to be obvious to ship sensors (barring countermeasures, of course).
 
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