Foreven: What do You Want to See?

[dmccoy1693]

As you may have read on Facebook or G+, JBE is heavily working on Foreven. We've got parts written and a solid outline for the parts that are not. But I wanted to ask you, what do you want included in it? Here's a number of the themes we have worked out so far:

• hotbed for Imperium and Zhodani proxy wars (agents of the Imperium as well as SORAG will feature prominently),
• small empires trying to hold their own against Imperium and Zhodani operatives,
• lots of illegal tech smuggling,
• little warlords drunk with power,
• line between piracy and mercenary outfit will be blurred to near nothingness,
• good people on the ragged edge drying to scrape out a living while criminals, warlords and major governments are ever encroaching,
• Avalar Consulate will be a poor melting pot of vilani, zhodani, aslan, and solomani (yes, a few colony words of the solomani out here as well), trying to impose a zhodani style government structure on them

Like I said, these are a few of what is already going into the sector. Is there something you want to see that we have not included yet? Please tell us. We would love to hear your thoughts.

 

[rancke]

As you may have read on Facebook or G+, JBE is heavily working on Foreven. We've got parts written and a solid outline for the parts that are not. But I wanted to ask you, what do you want included in it?

Depends on the date. Pre-5FW I'd want the loosely organized Weltbund with the many rivalries kept (mostly) below the level of overt conflict. Post-5FW I'd want the brutal repressive Avalar Consulate with the simmering revolts brewing all over the place.


Hans

 

[dmccoy1693]

Depends on the date.

1105

 

[rancke]

1105

I'd want the Weltbund instead of the Avalar Consulate, then.


Hans

 

[dmccoy1693]

Current plans for the Avalar Consulate is a smaller government than on Travellermap.com. Its still a regional power but it is not nearly as significant.

 

[whulorigan]

I'd want the Weltbund instead of the Avalar Consulate, then.

Current plans for the Avalar Consulate is a smaller government than on Travellermap.com. Its still a regional power but it is not nearly as significant.

IIRC, if you take a look at the original hardcopy Traveller Map that was published in the late 70's / early 80's, the polity was in two parts: A coreward part (in Foreven), and a rimward part (in The Beyond). Later maps show it as a single polity in an "upside-down-L" shape that spans the two Sectors.

It is not unreasonable to presume that the coreward Foreven part was always the Avalar Consulate, and that the rimward part in The Beyond was originally The Weltbund, but that after the 5FW, Avalar Cosulate "absorbed" The Weltbund to rimward.

 

[dmccoy1693]

IIRC, if you take a look at the original hardcopy Traveller Map that was published in the late 70's / early 80's, the polity was in two parts: A coreward part (in Foreven), and a rimward part (in The Beyond). Later maps show it as a single polity in an "upside-down-L" shape that spans the two Sectors.

It is not unreasonable to presume that the coreward Foreven part was always the Avalar Consulate, and that the rimward part in The Beyond was originally The Weltbund, but that after the 5FW, Avalar Cosulate "absorbed" The Weltbund to rimward.

I've seen The Beyond map, but I haven't seen the foreven half. Where can I find it?

 

[rancke]

IIRC, if you take a look at the original hardcopy Traveller Map that was published in the late 70's / early 80's, the polity was in two parts: A coreward part (in Foreven), and a rimward part (in The Beyond). Later maps show it as a single polity in an "upside-down-L" shape that spans the two Sectors.

I've never seen any such map. I'm basing my view of the Weltbund as a predecessor to the Avalar Consulate on the map in Library Data (A-M), p. 24-25 which shows the single polity.

It is not unreasonable to presume that the coreward Foreven part was always the Avalar Consulate, and that the rimward part in The Beyond was originally The Weltbund, but that after the 5FW, Avalar Cosulate "absorbed" The Weltbund to rimward.

It's not unreasonable to assume that the map you speak of must be considered revised by the one in LDAM. My suggested explanation is that the coreward third of the Weltbund is older and more established (and less freedom-loving) than the rest and that there are internal tensions that led to a coalition of worlds, led by Avalar and supported by the Zhodani, to take control during the time the Imperium was distracted by the 5FW.

But another explanation is fine too, as long as it doesn't involve retconning the Weltbund out of existence.


Hans

 

[dmccoy1693]

... ummm actually, there's been a change over at travellermap.com concerning Foreven (edit: and The Beyond sector actually). You might want to check it out.

 

[whulorigan]

I've never seen any such map. I'm basing my view of the Weltbund as a predecessor to the Avalar Consulate on the map in Library Data (A-M), p. 24-25 which shows the single polity.

The one in LDAM has the "upside-down-L" shaped polity. I have seen the map with it "spilt" into two parts (an "upside-down-U" in Foreven and an "oblong" polity in Beyond) only one other place, and I don't remember which map it is. I'll have to check when I get home tonight.

I remember because it stood out to me as odd.

 

[rancke]

... ummm actually, there's been a change over at travellermap.com concerning Foreven (edit: and The Beyond sector actually). You might want to check it out.

Never mind, then. I don't care what you include or don't include, since I won't be using the new reality.


Hans

 

[inexorabletash]

On travellermap, Foreven now just shows the placeholders from the FFE Referee's Preserve doc, highlighting it as open to refs to use without contradicting the OTU.

The Beyond data hasn't changed at all - it's just tagged as "Apocryphal" instead of merely "Unofficial"

 

[rancke]

On travellermap, Foreven now just shows the placeholders from the FFE Referee's Preserve doc, highlighting it as open to refs to use without contradicting the OTU.

The Beyond data hasn't changed at all - it's just tagged as "Apocryphal" instead of merely "Unofficial"

The Weltbund worlds in Beyond have been changed to Avalar Consulate worlds. As I understand it, travellermap.com is for Year 1105, so that effectively erases the Weltbund retroactively. Which will probably make any further material set there and in Foreven inapplicable to my own TU. So my answer to the original question is moot.


Hans

 

[whulorigan]

The one in LDAM has the "upside-down-L" shaped polity. I have seen the map with it "spilt" into two parts (an "upside-down-U" in Foreven and an "oblong" polity in Beyond) only one other place, and I don't remember which map it is. I'll have to check when I get home tonight.

I've never seen any such map. I'm basing my view of the Weltbund as a predecessor to the Avalar Consulate on the map in Library Data (A-M), p. 24-25 which shows the single polity.

OK. The original Charted Space Poster Map & LDAM Map both have the "upside-down-L" shaped single polity spanning the two sectors.

The fold-out map included with the Cargonaut material from the Keith Brothers has the two polities on it (the "upside-down-U" polity in Foreven and the "oblong" polity in Beyond). It has the remark in the lower right corner: "Known Space, 1105". I am not sure if that map is a reproduction from a different source, or unique to the Keith material published by Cargonaut.

For the purpose of developing the relevant worlds for Foreven (and perhaps Beyond), since the world of Avalar is in Foreven (and Foreven is a designated "GM preserve"), the "coreward" part of the polity can theoretically be developed freely (and I like some of the ideas mentioned in the OP). Perhaps the Solomani-settled The Weltbund (which appeared in the Paranoia Press Supplement "The Beyond") can be considered extant in 1105, but will be absorbed or otherwise subsequently altered by the events of the 5FW. Perhaps the reason for the two differently-depicted political boundaries has to do with both governments claiming the systems along the Sector border and into The Beyond, with the 5FW settling the issue in favor of the Avalar Consulate (at least in the short-term).


Hans's suggestion has significant merit as well:

My suggested explanation is that the coreward third of the Weltbund is older and more established (and less freedom-loving) than the rest and that there are internal tensions that led to a coalition of worlds, led by Avalar and supported by the Zhodani, to take control during the time the Imperium was distracted by the 5FW.

 

[Orr]

Is the Weltbund the one with worlds named after Nazi panzer divisions?

 

[whulorigan]

Is the Weltbund the one with worlds named after Nazi panzer divisions?

The worlds of The Weltbund are mostly German names. I do not know specifically if they used German Army Panzer-division names or not.

EDIT: Those names of The Weltbund that are German (not all of them are) are as follows:

Liebeskinder
Feldherrnhalle
Abwehr
Beinbruch
Bundestag
Bierstube
Gasthof
Mansagt
llse
Oberprasidenten
Nietschze
Ewig Weibliche
Vierjahreszeiten
Liebeslied
Zeben
Abeitlung Drei
Platz
Schloss Adler
Reckinghausen
Drei Farben
Nervenheilanstalt
Staatsbibliothek
Maximummer
Drachenfels
Baden em Zee
Wurger

 

[whulorigan]

I've seen The Beyond map, but I haven't seen the foreven half. Where can I find it?

I am not sure if a "canonical" treatment of Foreven or the Foreven-half of the Avalar Consulate was ever done (prior to becoming a "GM-Preserve", that is). The coreward half of the polity (AFAIK) was only "assumed" based on details of the rimward portion. Someone else can correct me if I am wrong about this.

That being said, CT Double Adventure 5 (Chamax Plague and Horde) by the Keith Brothers was published during the CT era and took place on the worlds Alenzar and Rascheev (both in Subsector L [Reidan]) in the Foreven Sector. But neither of those worlds are within the Avalar region.

 

[dmccoy1693]

I posted a few of my thought on the planet of Avalar and the Avalar Consulate. Read all about it and tell us what you think.

 

[whulorigan]

The Weltbund worlds in Beyond have been changed to Avalar Consulate worlds. As I understand it, travellermap.com is for Year 1105, so that effectively erases the Weltbund retroactively. Which will probably make any further material set there and in Foreven inapplicable to my own TU. So my answer to the original question is moot.

I posted a few of my thought on the planet of Avalar and the Avalar Consulate. Read all about it and tell us what you think.

Mention is made of The Weltbund and its relationship to the world of Avalar in the article linked above, so it is not retconned out of existence.

 

[GypsyComet]

For the purpose of developing the relevant worlds for Foreven (and perhaps Beyond), since the world of Avalar is in Foreven (and Foreven is a designated "GM preserve"), the "coreward" part of the polity can theoretically be developed freely (and I like some of the ideas mentioned in the OP). Perhaps the Solomani-settled The Weltbund (which appeared in the Paranoia Press Supplement "The Beyond") can be considered extant in 1105, but will be absorbed or otherwise subsequently altered by the events of the 5FW. Perhaps the reason for the two differently-depicted political boundaries has to do with both governments claiming the systems along the Sector border and into The Beyond, with the 5FW settling the issue in favor of the Avalar Consulate (at least in the short-term).

Hasn't the Paranoia Press version of The Beyond been off the Canon list for decades, though?

Recalling how trackless parts of the Trojan Reach are described in the 1100s, the idea that Imperial records might be incorrect with regards to the states of The Beyond is not a big stretch. Easiest explanation might be that the Weltbund was absorbed by the Avalar during the 4FW, a casualty that the Imperium has been ignoring for political reasons. Of course, they may only be a casualty in the short term. Those worlds remain in rebellion against the Avalar, so some political maps continue to show them as an autonomous region.

The Avalar are a tricky bunch to *ever* pin down in print because they sit on the Foreven side of the fence. A Canon take on The Beyond would need to skirt the Avalar carefully, because they can't be fully defined without impinging on the Preserve, while a Foreven take on them can't create Canon reality that reaches beyond Foreven.