Foreven: What do You Want to See?

[rancke]

Recalling how trackless parts of the Trojan Reach are described in the 1100s, the idea that Imperial records might be incorrect with regards to the states of The Beyond is not a big stretch.

The description of the Trojan Reach as unknown territory after 700 years of contact and trade with the Aslans on the other side of it, OTOH, is much too big a stretch. The Trojan Reach in Leviathan fits a lot better with Year 400 than with Year 1100.

Lots of inaccuracies and misunderstandings, sure. Near-total information failure, no.


Hans

 

[GypsyComet]

The description of the Trojan Reach as unknown territory after 700 years of contact and trade with the Aslans on the other side of it, OTOH, is much too big a stretch. The Trojan Reach in Leviathan fits a lot better with Year 400 than with Year 1100.

Lots of inaccuracies and misunderstandings, sure. Near-total information failure, no.


Hans

This very quickly loops back around to the nature of interstellar commerce, which is not why this topic is here.

 

[rancke]

This very quickly loops back around to the nature of interstellar commerce, which is not why this topic is here.

It loops back to the nature of human curiosity and the motives of explorers and how many explorers the Spinward Marches would spawn in 700 years, so it's perfectly on topic as a reply to your suggestion.

To elucidate: If you have an huge ultra-tech civilization growing in the Spinward Marches for most of a millenium, the neighboring sectors will have been the target of numerous explorers, scientists, merchant scouts, and free traders over those centuries. We even have a canonical reference to Imperial Scouts being down in the second tier of subsectors (subsector E) around 200 or 300 (I forget the exact date).

So, no, the Beyond would not be virtually terra incognita to the Imperium in 1100.


Hans

 

[GypsyComet]

Then consider looking at the second paragraph of what I wrote. Consider it in the context of how the Chinese view Taiwan and Tibet, or the Russians will very shortly view the Crimea. Maps lie.

 

[rancke]

Then consider looking at the second paragraph of what I wrote. Consider it in the context of how the Chinese view Taiwan and Tibet, or the Russians will very shortly view the Crimea. Maps lie.

Only maps made by people with an interest in lying. What agenda would Imperial knowledge collections have in the Beyond?


Hans

 

[dmccoy1693]

Only maps made by people with an interest in lying. What agenda would Imperial knowledge collections have in the Beyond?

Not necessarily. A map is merely an interpretation of the current situation. Take a planet that is listed as Balkanized for a moment. That means someone looked at the political situation and said that there are large parts of the planet that the planetary government does not control. That could mean anything from a legitimate government to a rebel army. So what if that rebel army is really just a bunch of local farmers with guns and are exaggerating the real situation. All of the sudden, those farmers are given legitimacy because they are on a map, all because the map maker's boss pressured him to get it done faster.

Now look at it the other way around. Say a rebel army has had control of the system's outer worlds. Sure population wise, they control less than 1/5th the total population, but they are able to keep the central government at bay. Then that same busy map maker comes along and determines that this outer world government is more akin to pirates then a full independent nation. They do not receive any kind of legitimacy all because of some busy map maker.

So someone doesn't have to lie to simply have the map wrong.

 

[Nathan Brazil]

On Avalar:

Using the Mongoose rules, to your point, there is a potential for 1D3 rival Factions (p.173) of varying strength.

Also note concerning Contraband p.175, Government Type 9 does not normally consider Information to be Contraband. Interesting...

 

[inexorabletash]

Hasn't the Paranoia Press version of The Beyond been off the Canon list for decades, though?

Yeah. Well, I'd love to know exactly when the decanonization occurred.

That said, there is no canonical version of the Beyond. I'm actually in the process of trying to get the PP version of Beyond up on travellermap. Yes, it's completely crazy-pants, but why not? The current version I have is a complete re-do by Chuck Kallenbach II circa 1200 which has dropped off the web. Since it's apocryphal anyway, why not go with the crazy?

While it doesn't fit in with modern sensibilities, the idea that those sectors spinward of the Imperium were more like golden-age SF, full of Campbellian tropes and bug-eyed monsters has some appeal.

So (to wrench the thread back on topic) I'd say: Don't make your Foreven boring! Make it something unexpected but fun to seasoned Traveller players, just a short distance from "home".

 

[GypsyComet]

Yeah. Well, I'd love to know exactly when the decanonization occurred.

Traditionally, 1991, when Solomani & Aslan was published and visibly overwrote it would be the last date. The later DGP complications may or may not have changed that.

The last time I talked to Chuck was probably twenty years ago. He was decidedly unworried about his material being incompatible with the GDW vision. That puts it in the YTU or ATU category.

 

[SpaceBadger]

So what ever happened to the idea of Foreven being left alone by publishers so that any GM could make whatever he/she wanted there?

 

[dmccoy1693]

So what ever happened to the idea of Foreven being left alone by publishers so that any GM could make whatever he/she wanted there?

Well, what I am producing is not official. So you can completely ignore it if you want. But Mongoose and Miller agreed that Foreven can be published by Traveller Compatible publishers if they so desire. The rules stipulate that it will be unofficial and that it nothing produced by such publishers is allowed to take place outside Foreven.

Mind you, Mongoose is not going to be publishing there nor is any other official publisher. If I ever get to publish OTU material officially, I promise I will make sure to restate that all my work in Foreven was unofficial.

 

[aramis]

So what ever happened to the idea of Foreven being left alone by publishers so that any GM could make whatever he/she wanted there?

Mongoose.

 

[GypsyComet]

So what ever happened to the idea of Foreven being left alone by publishers so that any GM could make whatever he/she wanted there?

It hasn't really changed. The publishers of official setting material (FFE and Mongoose) are not touching Foreven. Referees are free to ignore any Foreven material and write their own. The big difference is that small publishers can now provide you with ideas.

 

[Orr]

The worlds of The Weltbund are mostly German names.

Thanks for the list. It looks like a grab bag more than anything else and a rather pathetic grab bag too. Let's see... Abwehr was the Nazi intelligence service headed by Canaris... Naming a world Bundestag is like naming a world Congress... Gasthof means inn or tavern... Abeitlung Drei is a mathematical term if I'm not mistaken... Schloss Adler is from a movie... it's like someone thumbed though a guidebook and/or wargame.

I do not know specifically if they used German Army Panzer-division names or not.

Not Heer division names, Waffen SS names. I specifically remember a Paranoia Press product which featured planets named after SS divisions; Das Reich, Liebstandarte, Wiking, Totenkopf, Reichsfuhrer, and so on. The names were immediately recognizable to anyone who has ever played a WW2 wargame.

 

[Orr]

Mongoose.

When does their license expire? Soonish one can hope?

 

[aramis]

When does their license expire? Soonish one can hope?

I don't know, but I expect it to be several more years.

 

[whulorigan]

. . . Naming a world Bundestag is like naming a world Congress...

Bundestag is the capital-world of The Weltbund ("World-Federation").

. . . Gasthof means inn or tavern...

Obviously a stopover . . .

. . . Abeitlung Drei is a mathematical term if I'm not mistaken... Schloss Adler is from a movie... it's like someone thumbed though a guidebook and/or wargame.

REALITY: Most of the Paranoia Press products had somewhat of a tongue-in-cheek approach like that. Some of the names were actually clever and/or obscure references or plays-on-words (and some take a while to figure out the pun). I know I missed many for a long time, and I am sure there are plenty more that I have not discovered yet.

IN-UNIVERSE PERSPECTIVE: I've always rather imagined some of the names (at least) to be the result of overworked, fatigued Scouts out in the back-end of nowhere coming up with all sorts of crazy names as a way of maintaining their sanity (or as a subtle form of passive-rebellion).

 

[rancke]

Bundestag is the capital-world of The Weltbund ("World-Federation").

A native German-speaker once told me that the correct form is Weltenbund, not Weltbund. But that's 20th Century German, not Classic Era Germanic, of course.


Hans

 

[whulorigan]

A native German-speaker once told me that the correct form is Weltenbund, not Weltbund. But that's 20th Century German, not Classic Era Germanic, of course.

My German is rusty, but "Weltbund" would mean "world-federation" (as in a federation on a single world) and "Weltenbund" would be a federation of a plurality of worlds. So Weltenbund would probably be more appropriate by the standards of modern German usage.

I am content with either (I actually like "Weltenbund" a little better).

 

[Nerhesi]

When does their license expire? Soonish one can hope?

God no. What a rude response! Why would you want to kill Traveller? Or are we hoping for a Traveller 6th edition before it expires. I'm pretty sure MM continues to profit from it as well, and with the approach of a second edition (for some items), I am glad it continues to be successful. If MM and MS are up for it, renew and go another 10 years.

It is pretty much the only modern, well supported, harder-sci space opera rpg out there that caters to pretty much ANY theme, (Due to the wealth of material available) and is lead by a level headed line developer. The other versions of traveller are simply not an option unless you're feeling nostalgic. Nostalgia doesnt sell unless you're D&D.

FYI: License until 2018.