[Foreven] What Should I Read For Research?

[dmccoy1693]

Good day everyone,

Jon Brazer Enterprises is starting to plan out a publishing schedule for next year (hard to imagine this time last year, Jon Brazer Enterprises was putting out 1 page products, how far we've come). One of the things we're considering is a Foreven Setting book. We've considered doing this in the past but nixed it because it would be larger than we could handle at that point in time. Now we're seriously looking at doing 64-96 page books as a realistic possibility and a setting is a natural place to go.

So we are coming to you. What books should we read for research? We want to start off on the right foot and make sure we have all major sources of what you consider to be vital. Here is what we're using so far:

Mongoose
Spinward Marches
Aslan
Secrets of the Ancients
Darrians (when it comes out)

GDW
Zhodani

Other Sources
The Foreven Sector

We're sure this is not enough and we want to make sure we hit all the sources you feel are vital to understanding this sector of space. So if you want to see the best Foreven there can be speak up now. Tell us, what sources should we be reading. We're open to reading SJG sources, but make no promises to follow them since they are an alternate timeline.

Additionally, there are some current design goals you should know before suggesting sources:

Year 1108. Yep, that's 3 years after the Spinward Marches book is set and 1 year into the 5th frontier war. We want players to gave a significant outcome in all the little wars that occur in this time.

Avalar and Zhodani Consulates We are considering making both of these not as large as presented in the Foreven Sector. We wants these to be serious threats while not being so overpowering that the players are unable to make a difference.

Major Themes We are looking at a WWI kind of theme where every country went to war with their rival neighbor and "joins" a side in the war (supporting the imperium or the zhodani). Also going with a central american theme of the smaller worlds/loose alliances are supported with older imperium/zhodani tech, training and possibly even special forces if it directly helps the larger war one sector over or is strategic enough. So players can occasionally get cool toys while not having NPCs and larger overplots overshadow their efforts.

In short, our design goal is to make sure players can make a difference and not just a small difference. We want players to emerge from the 5th frontier wars as having changed the course of worlds, whether it be gathering intelligence, front line fighting, brokering a truce, smuggling supplies or personnel, and a myriad of other possibilities. We want players to make the difference.

Again, we are still considering this and no plans are final. But it is on the short list of books for 2011. And these design goals are not final, merely our current thoughts. So, what do you think? Are you interested in such a book? What should we be reading for research? Alien races, 5th frontier wars, and foreven. What should we be reading to help us do Foreven right?

 

[Andrew M]

"The Seven Pillars of Wisdom" by TE Lawrence springs to mind, although I've only seen the movie.

 

[dmccoy1693]

I was specifically referring to Traveller canon sources.

 

[Andrew M]

I was specifically referring to Traveller canon sources.

I guess it isn't canon . I'd still recommend it, if you want to combine WWI with high adventure. Mostly it was pretty grim, even when you get away from Northern Europe.

 

[kafka47]

It is not cannon but I did a big write up on Foreven...based on the things from Swordy's site.

 

[dmccoy1693]

do you have a link, kafka? I'd be very interested in reading it.

I should mention that I'm not just looking for info on Foreven, but also alien races that are most-likely present (major and minor, such as the vilani), "better" sources for aslans and zhodani than the ones I mentioned, I know there is a decanonized source that mentions solomani germans in Foreven (should I be reading that), info on the 5th frontier war, common (specifically outdated) imperium/zhodani ships and fighters that they would sell to small governments that can't afford to develop their own ships, anything you can think of would be most helpful to me.

 

[Vargas]

GDW's Chamax/Chamax Plague double adventure.

 

[ThunderChilde]

It's non OTU but Darkhstarr has done alot work spun off from Paranoia Press sources, its certainly worth looking over. I've used some of his stuff in my campaign.

http://www.darkhstarr.com/

 

[Cryton]

Id suggest the world and sub-sector generation sections of your Traveller version of choice.

The rest of what you posted sounds good though. Maby add in Classics Zhodani, Aslan, Darrian and Droyne modules.

 

[dmccoy1693]

Maby add in Classics Zhodani, Aslan, Darrian and Droyne modules.

Specifically which ones? I'm not going to read them all and be able to remember one from another. But if you can name one or two specific ones that are the quintessential Zho or Droyne or ... that would help me to capture those specific races, that would be a big help.

Speaking of the Droynes.... where are they in relation to Foreven. I know K'kree and Hivers are on the other side of the imperium and vargr are not close enough to be a major influence, but are the droynes at?

 

[aramis]

Thing is those 4 cover the significant alies of the area...

 

[robject]

So we are coming to you. What books should we read for research? We want to start off on the right foot and make sure we have all major sources of what you consider to be vital. Here is what we're using so far:

<snip>

Sounds like a good set of sources. It seems to me that, unless you're diverging from the OTU, that Foreven is not much of a threat. That does make me think of "Lawrence of Arabia" in a way, in that certain deserts are pretty nearly impossible to use to any constructive purpose. Whatever way you choose, it seems reasonable that Foreven's lack of significance has to be explained in a meaningful game context. Or history needs to be tweaked. One or the other. I prefer to keep "history" more or less intact.

Note that the map has a deliberate jump-3 channel cut vertically, separating the 4 trailingmost subsectors, with few passes. The result is higher costs of doing business, so less economic value. Strategically interesting but economically discouraging, perhaps.

Adventure 7, Broadsword, mentioned a squadron of Mercenary Cruisers which were built in the Sword Worlds and dispatched Spinward -- presumably through or into Foreven. So there is either (1) a small client in there somewhere, or (2) a "silk road" thru Foreven into Far Frontiers. Or both. Note that this silk road is likely a jump-3 route -- or worse.

Double Adventure 5, Chamax Plague/Horde, gives some basic info on Reidain subsector, but the current Foreven map has taken this into account already.

Avalar and Zhodani Consulates We are considering making both of these not as large as presented in the Foreven Sector. We wants these to be serious threats while not being so overpowering that the players are unable to make a difference.

I'd be happy to see these two shrink considerably from Foreven, and I think Avalar should be in name only, or preferably a single system, or two, or three.

... Also going with a central american theme of the smaller worlds/loose alliances are supported with older imperium/zhodani tech, training and possibly even special forces if it directly helps the larger war one sector over or is strategic enough...

That sounds pretty fun.

Alien races, 5th frontier wars, and foreven.

There's an interesting point. Think about perhaps one alien world per subsector average, maybe 5 current cultures, 5 extinct, and 5 proto-aliens.

 

[dmccoy1693]

Whatever way you choose, it seems reasonable that Foreven's lack of significance has to be explained in a meaningful game context.

That's easy actually. To most Americans (as in United States Citizens), Central American actions are largely insignificant, but they are very significant to central americans. When I lived in Germany, it seemed to me that most Germans cared little for the actions of many smaller european nations (this might not be true of most Germans, simply the impression I got from the Germans I met). But I am sure the outcome of the estonian elections are highly significant to estonians.

In the same way, Foreven is largely insignificant to those living under the Imperium. They are no a major sources of political influence, no significant military threats, no major economic centers that could rival their own. What is there: piracy (especially along the Urnian/5 Sisters border), constant political upheaval, cheap and easily exploitable resources, constant weapons market, and plenty of humans willing to kill to the king of their own little hill (for a short while atleast, until the next human (or alien) decides they want your place of power). The Imperium and Zhodani just assume the individual worlds will do what they tell them to do, because if they don't, they will put their support for their government out and give it to someone else. There's alot of tension in the region and the 5th frontier wars is a way for the people let it all out.

Foreven isn't about changing the face of Known Space. It is about one little sector of (largely forgotten) space.

 

[kafka47]

I played Foreven where the Cold War between the Zhodani & the Imperium was a Hot War by each side playing the smaller powers against each other. In this way, it is a series of Brush Wars that course through the sector but at any given time...alliances remain fluid enough so as not ignite a Frontier War. Also, as a sector more established by the Zhodani, albeit dissents the Vlach...things are more oriented toward Consular norms.

 

[Whipsnade]

In the same way, Foreven is largely insignificant to those living under the Imperium. (snip) What is there: piracy (especially along the Urnian/5 Sisters border), constant political upheaval, cheap and easily exploitable resources, constant weapons market, and plenty of humans willing to kill to the king of their own little hill (for a short while atleast, until the next human (or alien) decides they want your place of power). The Imperium and Zhodani just assume the individual worlds will do what they tell them to do, because if they don't, they will put their support for their government out and give it to someone else. There's alot of tension in the region and the 5th frontier wars is a way for the people let it all out.

Doc,

It seems to me that you've got Foreven pretty much figured out. The idea that Foreven is a no man's land between superpowers continually tussled over in a low scale, plausibly deniable manner by both Imperium and Zhodani neatly fits GDW's designation of the sector as a GM's Preserve. When we think of Foreven, we need to think of the Balkans in the 1800s or, more accurately, the Great Game played out between Russia and Britain across Central Asia during the imperial era and up through WW2.

Also, unlike the Great Game, there will be minor powers like the Darrians and Sword Worlds sticking their oars into the water too.

There will be plenty going on within Foreven, but nothing that does occur there will have repercussions beyond Foreven because the superpowers will be quick to put a lid on any great changes even if those changes benefit their clients of the moment.

Very little about Foreven has been published. Aside from a few mentions in scattered CT, along with the well intentioned but very unfortunate maps in MT's Imperiallines, there is little direct information about the sector. Without direct information, you'll need to infer the conditions within Foreven by reading along it's "margins". My suggestions on canonical reading follow:


Basics

• AM:4 Zhodani - The Consulate border runs through to coreward edge of the Foreven Sector and I see no real reason to change that. Reading about the Zhodani and mulling over the many hints regarding their surreptitiously active and very long term over-the-border defense posture should give you a feel for the Consulate's side of the Great Game.
  
• AM:8 Darrian - Like the Zhondani, the Darrian Confederation borders the Foreven Sector. Darrian activity in the sector is long standing. According to a map showing the limits of their explorations, the pre-Maghiz Darrian should have been active in Foreven by upwards of a subsector or more. In 489, the Darrian demonstrated a now known to be fake Star Trigger and that demonstration can be strongly inferred to have taken place in Foreven. Even more recent and according to G:T's BtC, the Darrian have been launching expeditions into Foreven and returning with damaged vessels.
  
• AM:5 Droyne - With the vanished Droyne homeworld and Grandfather's vacation pocket universe both located in the nearby Regina subsector, the Foreven Sector should have a number of Droyne worlds, Chirper populations, and Ancient sites equal to that of the Spinward Marches.
  
• AM:1 Aslan & AM:3 Vargr - Both these races should be present in Foreven in the same numbers and manner that they are present in the Marches. Neither the Extents or the Aslan Trans-Rift colonies are far from Foreven.
  
• The Ruritania/Graustark/Strackenz style of fiction - Beginning in the late 1800s a number of novels were set in small fictional countries said to be located somewhere in the Balkans or Eastern Europe. You can learn more about the genre here. These stories feature high adventure with decided political overtones under the looming presence of the Great Powers of the day. You may be familiar with Hope's The Prisoner of Zenda which is the novel most associated with the genre.

Specifics

• Double Adventure 5: Chamax Plague & Horde - Specifically set in Foreven, some of the background concerning Alenzar/Chamax and Raschev would be useful.
  
• Adventure Module 5: Alien Realms - This book presented adventures/campaigns for nearly all of the Major Races. Some of the adventures take place on known worlds like Lysen or Jedeispere, while the others could easily take place in Foreven. One of the Zhodani adventures and two of the Aslan adventures most easily fit.
  
• Ordeal by Eshaar - While not specifically said to be in Foreven, the description that the world is not far from Zhodani, Imperial, and Vargr space most certainly places it in Foreven.

Stuff To (sadly) Ignore

• The Foreven information at http://zho.berka.com/ This was sadly developed using the Imperiallines maps which themselves ignored GDW's own ideas and the constraints GDW placed on depictions of the sector.
  
• The Imperiallines fanzines which first attempted to foist the Avalar Consulate on the setting. My opinions regarding the Avalar are well known and needn't be repeated in any detail here. Suffice it to say that the presence of the Avalar does more damage then good and that the various handwaves proposed to minimize that damage end up doing more damage themselves. You can look at a representation of the Zhodani-Imperial border region here and another here top see just what sort of impact that proposed Avalar Consulate has on the Darrians and Imperium. Keep in mind that those maps only show half of the Foreven Sector and less than a quarter of the Avalar Consulate.

I hope all this helps you with your project.


Regards,
Bill

 

[Vargas]

A quick note: Ordeal by Eshaar takes place in the Far Frontiers sector but that doesn't stop anyone from setting it in Foreven.

I'm not sure it can be said that the Imperiallines map ignores GDW's ideas since it appears in a GDW publication and was endorsed by Marc Miller, to the extent that the contents of the article were run past him beforehand. It may repesent a change in GDW's stance on the sector.

Having said that, I've never been happy with the Imperiallines description of the sector. If you're going to create a wide open gaming preserve then make it truly wide open. Unfortunately the Foreven article came at a time, during MT, when anything that saw print in a GDW or DGP publication was considered canon. Mike Mikesh cleared the inclusion of the Avalar Consulate with Marc so that somebody's work, I forget who, done in one of the licensed CT products would be enshrined in canon.

 

[rancke]

A quick note: Ordeal by Eshaar takes place in the Far Frontiers sector but that doesn't stop anyone from setting it in Foreven.

One of the adventure in Alien Realms seems from various clues to be set in Foreven.

Having said that, I've never been happy with the Imperiallines description of the sector. If you're going to create a wide open gaming preserve then make it truly wide open. Unfortunately the Foreven article came at a time, during MT, when anything that saw print in a GDW or DGP publication was considered canon. Mike Mikesh cleared the inclusion of the Avalar Consulate with Marc so that somebody's work, I forget who, done in one of the licensed CT products would be enshrined in canon.

I've mentioned a possible solution before. The Foreven article describes Foreven in 1117 or 1120 or thereabouts. Simply establish that in 1105, it is still the Welt(en)bund, a much looser confederation split on the subject of more central control. It is neutral, but predominantly friendly towards the Imperium. On the side of more control is Avalar, rhe leader of the Federation Faction. This faction eventually (say, around 1108) turns to the Consulate for support in a civil war that leads to the Welt(en)bund being turned into the Avalar Consulate.

That will not only give you a wide open region, but also a built-in source of conflict and high drama. And resolve a small canon conflict.


Hans

 

[dmccoy1693]

Thank you Bill, that was exactly what I was looking for.

Thank you everyone. We're going to be doing some reading before deciding what we're doing.