Freighters

[Hal]

Hello Folks,
I was thinking (I know, bad idea!) that it might be interesting to see people come up with their own designs for freighters. They can be any size, use any game system for the creation there of. I'd like to see a few ideas so that people might say "Hey, neat, let's try that in Classic Traveller, or MegaTraveller or what have you.

Some designs may not be possible to replicate in other game systems, but the general idea might get people to try. For example - in looking at the Trade partners for the Lunion starport using GURPS TRAVELLER FAR TRADER, I thought to myself "I wonder what an 800 dton Freighter would look like, especially as a Jump-3 Manuver-2 craft. What prompted me to think along those lines is that there are a few "trade partners" who can't be reached with a Jump-2 ship, but can be reached with a Jump-3 ship due to how the stars are aligned (no, please, no Cthulhu jokes!)

So, that will be my first submission to this thread when the time comes - and it will be a GURPS TRAVELLER version. I may try to do it with High Guard, or maybe someone will beat me to the punch (I hope you do!).

So, let's kick this thread off with ideas for hulls and why. For instance? I'd suggest (based on GURPS TRAVELLER) that tramp freighters can be of any hull size 800 dtons and smaller. Hulls that are 1,000 and higher tend to be those ships that will provide for some heavy cargo hauling. Get enough of these and perhaps we might begin to populate the Traveller Universe with ships OTHER than the Empress Marava, Beowulf, and such classic designs. How about a Groat Class ship? Maybe we need a Hobo class wanderer tramp freighter. How about a Glimmerwing class freighter?

What I'd like to see and will build for my own universe in GURPS TRAVELLER, will be the following:

100 dton wanderer class - built ONLY for freight and speculative trading.

150 dton Dragonfly Class with longer jump legs

200 dton freight only Runner Class with faster maneuver drives for when you really need to get away from the 100 planetary diameter range (Maneuver 4+ and Jump 2)

400 dton Jump-2 craft

600 dton Jump-2 and Jump-3 craft

800 dton Jump 3 craft

1,000 dton Freighter that could handle a lot of passengers and takes a multi-planet route.

600 dton Q-Ship with pop-up turrets and maybe even a hanger bay for a single fighter craft or perhaps two.

Let's see what we can come up with.

 

[Timerover51]

Here is one that I am using presently in a novel I am working on.

The Wandering Minstrel is a 600 dTon former subsidized merchant, based on a modified 400 dTon subsidized merchant hull. She is capable of Jump-3, and was built on Frenzie to the order of the government of Thanbar for trade and cargo delivery to Retinae, Dekalb, and Quare. The proceeds for the ship were greater than anticipated so that additional ships entered the trade, the Wandering Minstrel was declared surplus, and turned over to its captain and crew in exchange for 10% of the next ten years revenues. Currently, the ship is engaged in a 5-year contract to the government of Ficant in the Vilis sector for service to Vilis. The contract has proved to be extremely lucrative, and the ship will be free of obligations to Thanbar at the end of the 5 years.

I built it to Classic rules for shipbuilding, with a modification of two crewman per stateroom, and the Captain/Owner stateroom included in the Bridge volume. A couple of other changes are a much larger crew, as I am a firm believer in the three-watch system, and for basic ship operations, one cubic meter of heavy water included in the engineering spaces keeps the ship's auxiliary power plant happy for at least a year. She is capable of Jump-3, and 1G acceleration heavy ship and 2G capable after jump and with moderate cargo.

Eventually, I need to do a full write-up, with all "I's" dotted and all "T's" crossed.

 

[Hal]

Here is one that I am using presently in a novel I am working on.



I built it to Classic rules for shipbuilding, with a modification of two crewman per stateroom, and the Captain/Owner stateroom included in the Bridge volume. A couple of other changes are a much larger crew, as I am a firm believer in the three-watch system, and for basic ship operations, one cubic meter of heavy water included in the engineering spaces keeps the ship's auxiliary power plant happy for at least a year. She is capable of Jump-3, and 1G acceleration heavy ship and 2G capable after jump and with moderate cargo.

Eventually, I need to do a full write-up, with all "I's" dotted and all "T's" crossed.

NICE. Get those T's and I's done dude!

 

[Quint]

IMTU I have a 1000dton "Galleon" class with J2, based on the old table for a K-Drive at TL-12 (it's actually a 6Kdton using ganged drives, but you get the idea).

It's the single most basic "large freighter" out there used as a basis for freighters, troop transports, replenishment ships, hospital ships, etc. I tend to think of it as the ubiquitous Scout/Courier of the megacorporations.

On a more amusing note I have the "Dangerous Toes" (the Galanglic translation of the Aslan name) an Aslan merchant captained by the notorious rogue Dinty Moore - who is evidently married into a Aslan clan, and has a merry crew of misfits.

D.

 

[kilemall]

In the ship design contest I ran IMTU, the likely winner was a 200 ton seeker prospecter.

Half is a 100 ton engineering/bridge saucer streamlined, and the other half is a girder/distributed setup, mostly for mounting containers.

The saucer detaches for gas giant fuel runs or atmospheric landing, leaving the mining crew with a stateroom container setup or two and filling the rest of the containers with ore.

Attached, the saucer is effectively a pusher tug, and the J-drive is big enough to handle a full load.

Ridiculously useful and flexible outside of it's intended market.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

This might possibly fit in a small ship universe:

2800 dT + 1200 dT drop tanks that are never dropped. J-3, M-3 with LBB2 Z drives. Streamlined with fuel purification, so that it can use small starports.

At 112 dT cargo / crew and a cost of MCr 0.3 / dT cargo it is fairly efficient.

It can even be profitable at LBB2 freight, even at J-3.

               #    USP            Tons        Cost          EP:s      Crew
Hull                              2 800                
Con                  2                          310,8        
Armour               0                
Drop Tanks         30%            1 200,0         1,2        
                        
Jump           1   Z=3              125,0       240,0                   1,3
Man            1   Z=3               47,0        96,0       -84,0       0,5
PP             1   Z=3               73,0       192,0        84,0       0,7
Fuel,#J,#wks   0     4               30,0            
Purif          1                     30,0         0,3        
                        
Bridge         1                     56,0        14,0                   1,4
Comp           1     3                3,0        18,0        -1,0    
State         21                     84,0        10,5        
Low            0                
                        
Cargo                             2 352,0            
                        
Total                                 0,0       882,81        
Class                                           185,39        
Ship                                            706,25        
                        
Bridge    Eng    Gunn    Flight    Service    Marine    Crew
   10      3       0         0          8         0      21

            
Economy of Ship in commercial use                        
MCr        Down Payment      Monthly      Totally Cr   700 174  per jump for 40 years,
706,25      148 312 080    2 942 700      then Cr    2 112 670  per jump
                        
Expenses per jump              Income        
Bank           1 412 496       High             0    
Fuel             123 000       Middle           0    
Life Support      42 000       Low              0    
Salaries          41 280       Cargo    2 350 000    
Maintenance       28 250            
Berthing           2 800            
                    
Summa          1 649 826                2 350 000

(The design is quite old, I think I used Excel 1.16 to create this spreadsheet.)

 

[Hal]

IMTU I have a 1000dton "Galleon" class with J2, based on the old table for a K-Drive at TL-12 (it's actually a 6Kdton using ganged drives, but you get the idea).

It's the single most basic "large freighter" out there used as a basis for freighters, troop transports, replenishment ships, hospital ships, etc. I tend to think of it as the ubiquitous Scout/Courier of the megacorporations.

On a more amusing note I have the "Dangerous Toes" (the Galanglic translation of the Aslan name) an Aslan merchant captained by the notorious rogue Dinty Moore - who is evidently married into a Aslan clan, and has a merry crew of misfits.

D.

Sure - tease us with a description but be coy with the stats... *teasing grin*

The idea is to put forth your freighters not just to show what you're thinking, but also show the designs so that others in the future might STEAL those ideas for their own campaigns.

 

[Hal]

This might possibly fit in a small ship universe:

2800 dT + 1200 dT drop tanks that are never dropped. J-3, M-3 with LBB2 Z drives. Streamlined with fuel purification, so that it can use small starports.

At 112 dT cargo / crew and a cost of MCr 0.3 / dT cargo it is fairly efficient.

It can even be profitable at LBB2 freight, even at J-3.

               #    USP            Tons        Cost          EP:s      Crew
Hull                              2 800                
Con                  2                          310,8        
Armour               0                
Drop Tanks         30%            1 200,0         1,2        
                        
Jump           1   Z=3              125,0       240,0                   1,3
Man            1   Z=3               47,0        96,0       -84,0       0,5
PP             1   Z=3               73,0       192,0        84,0       0,7
Fuel,#J,#wks   0     4               30,0            
Purif          1                     30,0         0,3        
                        
Bridge         1                     56,0        14,0                   1,4
Comp           1     3                3,0        18,0        -1,0    
State         21                     84,0        10,5        
Low            0                
                        
Cargo                             2 352,0            
                        
Total                                 0,0       882,81        
Class                                           185,39        
Ship                                            706,25        
                        
Bridge    Eng    Gunn    Flight    Service    Marine    Crew
   10      3       0         0          8         0      21

            
Economy of Ship in commercial use                        
MCr        Down Payment      Monthly      Totally Cr   700 174  per jump for 40 years,
706,25      148 312 080    2 942 700      then Cr    2 112 670  per jump
                        
Expenses per jump              Income        
Bank           1 412 496       High             0    
Fuel             123 000       Middle           0    
Life Support      42 000       Low              0    
Salaries          41 280       Cargo    2 350 000    
Maintenance       28 250            
Berthing           2 800            
                    
Summa          1 649 826                2 350 000

(The design is quite old, I think I used Excel 1.16 to create this spreadsheet.)

I'm curious. If Drop tanks are a TL 15 development (ie Recent per the JTAS announcements in the Third Imperium (which you don't have to adhere to for IMTU concepts!), is this a TL 15 design or something else?

Also - if it never drops its jump tanks, why take the worst of both worlds? Drop tank volume detracts from Hard Points (although Hardpoints deduct internal volume, which you may not want to deal with). Just curious as to the thinking that went on behind the scenes as it were.

 

[Hal]

In the ship design contest I ran IMTU, the likely winner was a 200 ton seeker prospecter.

Half is a 100 ton engineering/bridge saucer streamlined, and the other half is a girder/distributed setup, mostly for mounting containers.

The saucer detaches for gas giant fuel runs or atmospheric landing, leaving the mining crew with a stateroom container setup or two and filling the rest of the containers with ore.

Attached, the saucer is effectively a pusher tug, and the J-drive is big enough to handle a full load.

Ridiculously useful and flexible outside of it's intended market.

Gotta post your stats

Might be a good idea to show TL design, where used (Ie what part of the Traveller Universe, if anywhere, it is used, etc)

 

[AnotherDilbert]

I'm curious. If Drop tanks are a TL 15 development (ie Recent per the JTAS announcements in the Third Imperium (which you don't have to adhere to for IMTU concepts!), is this a TL 15 design or something else?

Also - if it never drops its jump tanks, why take the worst of both worlds? Drop tank volume detracts from Hard Points (although Hardpoints deduct internal volume, which you may not want to deal with). Just curious as to the thinking that went on behind the scenes as it were.

I probably made that in the 80's, exactly why I cannot remember.

Z drives are TL15, so the ship must be TL15.

Drop tanks are cheaper than hull. With internal tanks the hull would be 4000 dT and ~MCr150 more expensive, I would also need more crew and a bigger bridge.
With HG drop tanks were available at any TL.

It's a freighter, not a warship, so hardpoints are at best a tertiary concern.

Not suitable for adventurers, just a freighter.

 

[aramis]

I'm curious. If Drop tanks are a TL 15 development (ie Recent per the JTAS announcements in the Third Imperium (which you don't have to adhere to for IMTU concepts!), is this a TL 15 design or something else?

Also - if it never drops its jump tanks, why take the worst of both worlds? Drop tank volume detracts from Hard Points (although Hardpoints deduct internal volume, which you may not want to deal with). Just curious as to the thinking that went on behind the scenes as it were.

Z-drives make it TL-15 anyway.

But Drop Tanks are TL 12, not 15. It's just that the 3I didn't discover them until 1107...

 

[Hal]

Hobo Class Freighter: This design is utilized for long distance trade where destinations contain stretches of space between stars that are 3 parsecs distant. Originally designed at Lunion for its Zhodani trade partners, its design is spreading out little by little. Banks require a thorough background check into those who purchase the ships with 20% down due to its potential as a platform for piracy. While the armaments are generally not considered to be standard, this particular Hobo configuration is intended to give potential pirates pause for thought. Two turrets for dedicated laser combat, two turrets are dedicated for missile combat. Two turrets are dedicated for defensive work against either of missiles or lasers by means of sandcasters, and the last two turrets are general purpose capable of laser, missile and sandcaster work.

It should be noted that a fully laden Unarmed Hobo class Freighter can manage 2.27 G's of acceleration.



Crew: 13 Total. 3 Command and Control, 1 Jump Drive, 1 Maneuver Drive, 8 Turret Gunners.

Hull: 800-ton VGSL, Medium Frame, Standard Materials, Crystaliron (Expensive) Armored Hull (DR 100, Psi-Shielded, Instant Chameleon), Standard Compartmentalization.

Control Areas: Basic Bridge/10 (Complexity 7), Compact Bridge option (Used on Basic or command bridges only).


Communicator Range (mi)

Radio: 50,000,000

Maser: 0

Laser: 100,000,000

Meson: 0




Sensors Range/Rating (mi)

Passive: 20,000/37

Active : 100,000/41

Radscanner: 2,000/31



Engineering: 32 Jump Drive/10, 111 Maneuver Drive/10 Improved (2.01 / 2.43 Gs, 5,439 stons thrust), 240 Jump Fuel Tank/7, 2 Fuel Processor/10 (15 hours to refine Jump Fuel Tank/7), Utility/10.

Accommodations: 13 Stateroom/10.

Misc: 240 Hydrogen Fuel (Fire 13), 190 Unspecified Cargo.



Armaments:
Turret #1 Battery of 1 (DR 100, 3xStd Laser/10 250 Mj[RoF Bonus +1]), 1

Turret #2 Battery of 1 (DR 100, 3xStd Laser/10 250 Mj[RoF Bonus +1]), 1

Turret #3 Battery of 1 (DR 100, 3xLt Missile Rack/10 [77], 231x250mm Missile/10), 1

Turret #4 Battery of 1 (DR 100, 3xLt Missile Rack/10 [77], 231x250mm Missile/10), 1

Turret #5 Battery of 1 (DR 100, Lt Missile Rack/10 [77], Std Laser/10 250 Mj, Sandcaster Canister [1], 77x250mm Missile/10, Sand Caster Full Load [x200]), 1

Turret #6 Battery of 1 (DR 100, Lt Missile Rack/10 [77], Std Laser/10 250 Mj, Sandcaster Canister [1], 77x250mm Missile/10, Sand Caster Full Load [x200]), 1

Turret #7 Battery of 1 (DR 100, 3xSandcaster Canister [1], 3xSand Caster Full Load [x200]), 1

Turret #8 Battery of 1 (3 dtons available; DR 100, 3xSandcaster Canister [1], 3xSand Caster Full Load [x200]).


Weapon Name

Qty: Std Laser/10 250 Mj 8

Type: Imp

Acc: 32

SS: 30

Dmg: 5dx50 (2)

RoF: 1/60 (+7)

1/2 Rng: 17000/2

Max: 51000/5


Lt Missile Rack/10 [77] 8 (+0) 10,000,000/1000


Missiles/Probes

Qty: 250mm Missile/10 616

DR: 40

G-Rds: 6G-18

Exp Dmg: 6dx60(10)

KK-Dmg: 6dx100(5)

Size: 0

AMod: -6

PMod: -6



Stores: 190 Hold (0 dtons free for cargo).

Statistics: DMass 1,996.36 stons, EMass 2,236.36 stons, LMass 2,707.87 stons, Base Cost MCr184.68, Load Cost MCr19.21, Total Cost MCr203.89, HP 60,000, Damage Threshold 6,000, Size Mod +10, HT 12, 65.2 Man-Hours/day Maintenance.

Space Performance: Jump-3, sAcc 2.01/2.01/2.43/2.72 Gs.

Air Performance: aSpeed 2,381 mph, Skimming aSpeed 9,033 mph, aLift 5,439 stons.

Sample Times : Orbit 0.11 Hrs, Escape Velocity 0.16 Hrs, 100D 4.50 Hrs, Earth-Mars 77.35 Hrs.

 

[McPerth]

Time ago I already presented a freghter for MgT1 based on a frame and intechangeable modules in this thread.

See thought, that it would make a poor ship for adventuring, being more a background freighter (and, with the latter added modules mini-tender) for a small ship universo.

 

[mike wightman]

The actual quote - JTAS 2 - is that civilian drop tanks (Tukera Lines) have been in use in the core sectors of the Imperium for quite some time, well twelve years at least in 1105.

They are about to start manufacturing them at Pixie (0303-A100103-D).

The special long duration capacitors needed for the drop tanks to work can not be currently be manufactured in the Marches (but I imagine that the technology is being deliberately withheld to offer core world manufacturing an edge over the frontier worlds - they are fond of wheels within wheels remember )

Military drop tanks can be assumed to have been available much longer.

Same issue TAS bulletin mentions plans to use drop tanks to upgrade the x-boat network to the interior to jump 6 using drop tanks.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

That's perhaps why the freighter never drops the tanks, the civilian yards had not perfected drop tanks yet, leading to unacceptable losses of this ship type. After a few accidents the remaining operators were told never to drop the tanks again.

 

[wbyrd]

That's perhaps why the freighter never drops the tanks, the civilian yards had not perfected drop tanks yet, leading to unacceptable losses of this ship type. After a few accidents the remaining operators were told never to drop the tanks again.

I can imagine this conversation taking place...At Crazy Eds discount starships.

"if ya push that button there you lose 150k worth of hardware.."

"So what do I do about that"

'Don't push the button."

"Can't you come up with a fix?"

"Sure that'll cost you 1.2 million, and six weeks of refit...."

"Okay, so I won't be pushing that button..anything else?."

"yeah try not to flush two freshers at the same time......it gets messy."

I personally love adding lots of small, Older ships to a universe. They have a lot more potential for fun than the big mega ships.

Somewhere around here I have the MGT1 stats for a little 100 ton "Packet Steamer" Basically a box with engines at one, cargo in the middle, and a stateroom attached to the bridge...about as sexy as a mud brick..which is also what it looks like.

 

[Hal]

The mud brick you speak of - that's about the design philosophy I had for he Wanderer Class Exploratory Freighter. It only has two staterooms, plus a bridge, plus drive space. All else is simply cargo hold. Better than a Scout, cheaper than a 200 dton ship, with less overhead in the way of operating crew.

I'll have to dig that up and post it here.

 

[Xenon]

heres a 300t freighter J2. pretty straightforward. i used the mongoose rules.

Double Rhapsody
300 ton, streamlined(13.2 Mcr)
crystaliron armor, 15t (2.4 Mcr)
J-Drive C 20t (30Mcr)
M-Drive B 3t (8Mcr)
Power plant C 10t (24Mcr)
bridge 20t (1.5 Mcr)
Computer model 1/bis r5/10jc (0.045 Mcr))
Electronics basic civilian -2DM 1t (0.05 Mcr)
Weapons Hardpoints #1, 2, 3- empty
fuel 66t (j2 and 2 weeks operation)
Cargo 115
10 staterooms 40t (5 Mcr)
10 low berths 5t (0.5 Mcr)
extras- Fuel scoop, 2 fuel processor, ships locker 2t (0.1 Mcr)
programs- jump control/2, manuver/0, library/0 (0.2Mcr)
total 297t, 84.995 Mcr
as a standard design, it would only cost 76,495,500

similar to the ship in supplement 10 (without aerofins), but J2 to compete with the far trader, and with extra staterooms for passengers.

the 300t hull really does not get used enough.... sure it takes an extra 10t for the increased bridge size, and you need bigger drives and more fuel, but the cost difference isnt bad for what you get out of it.

 

[Hal]

heres a 300t freighter J2. pretty straightforward. i used the mongoose rules.

Double Rhapsody
300 ton, streamlined(13.2 Mcr)
crystaliron armor, 15t (2.4 Mcr)
J-Drive C 20t (30Mcr)
M-Drive B 3t (8Mcr)
Power plant C 10t (24Mcr)
bridge 20t (1.5 Mcr)
Computer model 1/bis r5/10jc (0.045 Mcr))
Electronics basic civilian -2DM 1t (0.05 Mcr)
Weapons Hardpoints #1, 2, 3- empty
fuel 66t (j2 and 2 weeks operation)
Cargo 115
10 staterooms 40t (5 Mcr)
10 low berths 5t (0.5 Mcr)
extras- Fuel scoop, 2 fuel processor, ships locker 2t (0.1 Mcr)
programs- jump control/2, manuver/0, library/0 (0.2Mcr)
total 297t, 84.995 Mcr
as a standard design, it would only cost 76,495,500

similar to the ship in supplement 10 (without aerofins), but J2 to compete with the far trader, and with extra staterooms for passengers.

the 300t hull really does not get used enough.... sure it takes an extra 10t for the increased bridge size, and you need bigger drives and more fuel, but the cost difference isnt bad for what you get out of it.

Just out of curiosity...

How does the analysis of cost/profit ratio break down with regards to Staterooms in Mongoose Traveller?

For instance:

A stateroom in CT takes 4 dTons of volume. Had that been dedicated to cargo capacity instead, it would earn a total of 4,000 credits (assuming it was in use every jump!), and the person owning the ship would not owe mortgage money for the extra expense of building the stateroom.

Couple this with the fact that the stateroom has life support costs involved, and things start looking a bit "interesting" as far as "Why did we build the stateroom?" Then there is the hidden extra cost of High Passengers. They are entitled to 1 dton's worth of extra space for their luggage etc as part of their service. Does the cost of the High Passage include the cost involved with using not 4 dtons of volume, but 5? Toss in the additional 4 dtons of having to have a steward involved - and the hidden cost of passengers versus freight becomes... (in Mongoose Traveller that is)?

Just curious.

By the by - thanks for posting your example.

 

[Xenon]

Just out of curiosity...

How does the analysis of cost/profit ratio break down with regards to Staterooms in Mongoose Traveller?

For instance:

A stateroom in CT takes 4 dTons of volume. Had that been dedicated to cargo capacity instead, it would earn a total of 4,000 credits (assuming it was in use every jump!), and the person owning the ship would not owe mortgage money for the extra expense of building the stateroom.

Couple this with the fact that the stateroom has life support costs involved, and things start looking a bit "interesting" as far as "Why did we build the stateroom?" Then there is the hidden extra cost of High Passengers. They are entitled to 1 dton's worth of extra space for their luggage etc as part of their service. Does the cost of the High Passage include the cost involved with using not 4 dtons of volume, but 5? Toss in the additional 4 dtons of having to have a steward involved - and the hidden cost of passengers versus freight becomes... (in Mongoose Traveller that is)?

Just curious.

By the by - thanks for posting your example.

the first reason, is because there can be many needs beyond income per jump- this is part of the limit on how many people can be on the ship.

now, with double occupancy two mid-passage at 6k each will net us 12k profit per trip per stateroom, if we can fill them. high passage is single occupancy, so technically it loses money on cargo, while requiring more stewards. with steward 1, you can cover up to 10 mid-passage, which is 5 staterooms at double occupancy. technically you could just install a ton of luxuries to handle it for you.

by comparison, your j2 cargo is going to be 1200/ton, or 4,800 cr per stateroom, for freight hauled (high passage still makes a profit, just a bit less). so compared to cargo space you make more money on mid-passage, AND every world is likely to have both passengers and cargo, although a world may not have enough of either to fill your ships capacity on a given world. so having the ability to take passengers greatly improves your overall profit in the long term. your cargo space is prioritized for mail (5k/ton for 5 tons), then speculative, then freight, and passengers cargo last.

mongoose is nice in that the rules support profit from hauling passengers and freight, but the economics of speculative trade tend to be too profitable in the short run for a high broker modifier.