CT Only: Fresh Air

[Supplement Four]

Comment about the nature of the Imperium and its citizens....


It looks like general practice is to found one main world in every solar system. Very few systems are not populated.

Yet, only a small percentage of the main worlds in the Imperium are Earth-Standard.

Many, many more see Citizens living in sealed environments.

Plus, there are issues about living in high-G or low-G gravity wells. It seems that the Imperial standard is 1G, and I take it, in sealed environments, 1G floor plating is used--even on the surface of worlds.

How many of the Imperial Citizens grow up breathing air? Feeling the sun (suns) on their face? Living outside of a bubble?

A vast minority.

And, that doesn't count space stations and habitats in the belts and so on.

I wonder, does membership as an Imperial world bring with it the promise of a standard 1G? All the houses have it in the flooring. All the business have it. And so on?

Can you imagine how life is so much different for so many people?





Let's look at the Aramis subsector, just for fun....

Paya
0.75 Gs
Thin Atmo
TL 9

Dhian
1.125 Gs
Exotic Atmo
TL 4

Corfu
1 G Earth Standard
Tainted Dense Atmo
TL 8

Focaline
1.25 Gs
Dense Atmo
TL 10

Lablon
0.75 Gs
Tainted Thin Atmo
TL 10

Heguz
0.75 Gs
Earth Standard Atmo
TL 11

Violante
0.75 Gs
Earth Standard Atmo
TL 10

Pavanne
0.25 Gs
Trace Atmo
TL 0

Carsten
0.5 Gs
Tainted Very Thin Atmo
TL 11

Zila
0.25 Gs
Thin Atmo
TL 7

Jesedipere
0.875 Gs
Tainted Standard Atmo
TL 7

Yebab
0.875 Gs
Exotic Atmo
TL 7

Nasemin
1.125 Gs
Dense Atmo
TL 11

Zykoca
1.125 Gs
Tainted Dense Atmo
TL 6

Aramanx
0.75 Gs
Earth Standard Atmo
TL 6

Pysaid
0.5 Gs
Tainted Standard Atmo
TL 4

L' oeul d'Dieu
1.125 Gs
Dense Atmo
TL 11

Rugbird
1.25 Gs
Insidious Atmo
TL 10

Towers
0.5 Gs
Tainted Thin Atmo
TL 10

Feneteman
0.25 Gs
Tainted Very Thin Atmo
TL 12

Lewis
0.5 Gs
Very Thin Tainted
TL 13

Aramis
0.75 Gs
Corrosive
TL 11

Junidy
0.5 Gs
Very Thin Atmo
TL 9

Patinir
0 Gravity
No Atmo
TL 9

Natoko
0.625 Gs
Dense Atmo
TL 8

Reacher
1.125 Gs
Exotic Atmo
TL 8




Look at the TL. Then consider the atmo on the world. Then, look at local gravity.

And, we haven't even started talking about temperature yet.





This all leads me to believe that most Imperial citizens live in sealed environments, either on the world or in space.





NOTE: Traveller doesn't seem to easily address temperature. I know that main worlds are placed in the habital zone of a star system, but that could still mean some quite challenging temperatures for that world. Imagine a standard atmo but conditions like the south pole.

 

[kilemall]

Have to figure a lot of that is relatively cheap undesired real estate that has to be developed and has to have some compelling resource/industry that keeps people fed and supplied with higher life support costs.

As technology increases, the difference between being in a planetary standard atmo urban area in buildings all the time and in a gravdome or orbital station may seem less burdensome.

Also, could be a lot of Earth-like planets also tend to generate life forms that can more readily feed on humans and/or their crops/animals, domes on planets with entirely different biologies are actually less costly then a 'compatible' yet alien biome.

I would think the trace to zero atmo places would be the most troublesome, given no radiation protection from the star.

 

[creativehum]

There is precedent in certain Adventures and Amber Zone adventures from the Journal that the most prominent qualities of a world's atmosphere does not always cover the entire world.

Habitations can be found within caves, on mountaintops, in deep ravines, where the atmosphere (for countless reasons) is more sustainable for humans.

Additionally, depending on how extraordinary one wants to be (which is the path I walk) habitats could be built with dirigibles that float humans to air they can breath, on the backs of behemoths that swims poisonous oceans and so on.

The UWP is not a straight jacket to define a world in totality. There will be all sorts of wriggle room and gaps (whether it be Tech Level or Atmosphere or any of it) that the Referee could alter at will.

I know in later years the UWP became some sort of in-fiction reoport from the scout service--which has, as far as I can tell, only produced a lot of frustration and confounding lapses of logic.

But originally concieved and presented the UWP was a "prod to the imagination" for a Referee and a tool for the Referee to track notes for adventures and environments for the PCs to encounter.

To take the UWP too literally is, in my view, to mis the fact that the UWP is the start of the process of imagining a world and how fantastic it can be, not a limit to what is happening on that world.

 

[mike wightman]

I highly recommend the you tube series of Isaac Arthur. If you have time go and watch episodes on topics such as

colonising (insert name of solar system body here), space stations, orbital habitats, megastructures.

 

[Supplement Four]

I think one of the most interesting issues is local gravity. Look at those G ratings in the OP.

This can be another reason why not many Imperial Citizens become Travellers, especially if you are from a low G world.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

If rolled randomly atmosphere tends towards the middle, and hence breathable atmospheres.

The vast majority of the Imperial population lives in a few high pop systems.

E.g. in the Spinward Marches 99% of the Imperial pop lives in systems where the main world has a breathable, if possibly tainted, atmosphere (code 4-9).


Moral: If you want to look at the average Impie look at pop A and perhaps pop 9 systems.

 

[sudnadja]

How many of the Imperial Citizens grow up breathing air?

For worlds with imperial allegiance codes, there are 8988 systems. Those with atmosphere codes of 5,6 or 8 (thin, standard or dense) have a total population of 8441398400760 to 10179101014785 and the total population is 18049041349210 to 21832723838665, so the ratio is somewhere between 38% to 56%. It's possible that more than half of imperial citizens can breath their worlds atmosphere without support.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

The Impie pop in the Spinward Marches lives with a mainworld average gravity of 0.99, since a few high pop wolds happens to be size A (Mora, Trin).


Note that we don't actually know the local density, hence gravity of even the mainworlds generally. We have to assume Earth density.

 

[Supplement Four]

I get the implications of living in a low G or high G environment, but I'm not sure about Thin and Dense atmospheres.



Question 1:

What are the G limits that a human could live in and remain healthy?



Question 2:

What would life be like living in a Thin or Dense standard atmosphere?

Are there any human health risks?

 

[kilemall]

We don't know the answer to question 1, but at the least I would say you would have bone structure and related muscle development issues with low to zero G- that's why IMO a world with near-G is preferable even if it is a hostile/no atmosphere for raising children, and any orbital/space habitat would require a huge spin or artificial gravity for same.

Most scifi assumes even denser bone and muscle for heavy G world children and so getting a bonus of strength and/or treating normal G like we would treat low G, better lift capacity.

I would tend to require a greater calorie/protein diet to maintain the heavy G bodies, and perhaps the lower G people should have a thinner lighter body and therefore less intake required.

Question 2, I would think we could model people who live in areas like the Himalayas for thin, thick shouldn't be that difficult to adjust with shorter breath bringing in more oxygen per, but there might be mild versions of the bends requiring slow depressurization, I don't know if that would be worse for natives or visitors.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

Question 2:

What would life be like living in a Thin or Dense standard atmosphere?

Are there any human health risks?

According to T5.09, p472 a Standard atmosphere becomes Thin at about 1000 m elevation, so about 90% pressure.

So a Thin atmosphere is like living in the mountains. You'll live.

If you are not used to it weird thing start to happen at about 70% pressure. E.g. you might pass out while chewing food since you don't breathe then.
You'll adjust in a few days. See e.g.:
https://www.machupicchutrek.net/machu-picchu-altitude-sickness/

At about 30-40% pressure you start to need a respirator and hence the atmosphere code becomes Very Thin.


So, basically you'll get used to Thin or Dense atmospheres if you are used to Standard. If you grew up in Dense you might have a problem with Thin, and vice versa?

 

[sudnadja]

All 5 6 or 8 atmosphere imperial worlds are size 4 or larger. Size 5 worlds are the most common, which would be 0.625g if planetary density is standard - 17% to 25% of the imperial population lives on that kind of world. Size 6 and 7 breathable atmosphere worlds are next, 6.5% to 9.5% and 6.6% to 9.6% respectively.

Size 8 with a breathable atmosphere is lived on by 5.0 to 7.4% of the imperial population.

Breathable atmosphere worlds are fairly randomly distributed:

 

[whartung]

I get the implications of living in a low G or high G environment, but I'm not sure about Thin and Dense atmospheres.



Question 1:

What are the G limits that a human could live in and remain healthy?



Question 2:

What would life be like living in a Thin or Dense standard atmosphere?

Are there any human health risks?

Similar discussion can happen around taint.

Some taint can't be breathed at all, others are better inhaled through a filter, but you might be able to last [1-10]D days/hours/minutes without a filter.

Also, not sure if the world handbooks cover the affect of density on overall temperature.

I can easily see a world with shirt-sleeve living conditions, but a tainted atmosphere that is better lived in with a mask, but doesn't necessarily need a hermetically sealed living environment. A modern house can leak like a sieve but the air conditioning system can keep the air clean and healthy enough, even with a normal front door.

 

[Supplement Four]

So, the big mystery, then, with Traveller worlds is temperature.

Making Temp matrices for each world is a big job.

I guess we can assume, since main worlds are placed in the habital zone if possible, that there is some place on the world that is good for human habitation, even if that is an extremely hot or arctic type condition.

 

[sudnadja]

The Impie pop in the Spinward Marches lives with a mainworld average gravity of 0.99, since a few high pop wolds happens to be size A (Mora, Trin).


Note that we don't actually know the local density, hence gravity of even the mainworlds generally. We have to assume Earth density.

Across the whole imperium, the average citizen can expect a mainworld gravity of 0.57 to 0.84. In the spinward matches (with Imperial Allegiance) it is 0.51 to 0.97, being more unknown because the population has fairly wide error bars: 255870852390 to 349646460543. There are 28 high population worlds in the spin ward marches, 7 of which are size 4. Only 5 are size 8 or larger.

 

[Supplement Four]

I can easily see a world with shirt-sleeve living conditions, but a tainted atmosphere that is better lived in with a mask, but doesn't necessarily need a hermetically sealed living environment. A modern house can leak like a sieve but the air conditioning system can keep the air clean and healthy enough, even with a normal front door.

Plus, local technology leaps to the challenge. I love to speculate. Like TL 4 Pysadi, with its tainted atmo that requires a mask.

In my games in the past, I would describe log houses where the locals have learned to completely seal them with a type of local pitch.

Or, the walls were not sealed, but twice as thick, with a filtering system (that had to be changed out every six months or so) sandwiched in between the walls.

The people live there. The world is TL 4. The atmosphere is tainted. The fun is in the speculation of how all those factors are possible.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

Across the whole imperium, the average citizen can expect a mainworld gravity of 0.57 to 0.84. In the spinward matches (with Imperial Allegiance) it is 0.51 to 0.97, being more unknown because the population has fairly wide error bars: 255870852390 to 349646460543.

Thanks, I failed to sum up all worlds.

With all Imperial worlds in the SM I get 0.55 g averaged over population.


I would not use that error range, but standard rounding. So, a pop 3, pop mult 5 world would have between 4500-5500 people.

I get the Imperial pop in the SM between 222.5 to 302.8 billion.

 

[sudnadja]

I would not use that error range, but standard rounding. So, a pop 3, pop mult 5 world would have between 4500-5500 people.

I get the Imperial pop in the SM between 222.5 to 302.8 billion.

I used the method described here: http://wiki.travellerrpg.com/Population_Multiplier

The population code in Nerdle's UWP is 9. This indicates that the population is in the billions (9 zeros). The number 8 (at the beginning of the PBG) is then added to the population code, giving a population of 8,000,000,000, i.e. 8 multiplied by 10 to the power of 9 (8 * 10^9 = 8,000,000,000).

That would contain all possible values up to the next highest multiplier, 9 billion would be population 9 multiplier 9 by the way I compute it. I'm not sure if there's an official method or not, though.

 

[sudnadja]

Thanks, I failed to sum up all worlds.

With all Imperial worlds in the SM I get 0.55 g averaged over population.

What method did you use to get that? Breaking down the populations by world size in the spinward marches, I get

Multiplying the population intervals by gravity, summing them and then dividing by the total population interval, I get 0.511652 to 0.974973. 0.55 is contained within that, but on the lower end.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

That would contain all possible values up to the next highest multiplier, 9 billion would be population 9 multiplier 9 by the way I compute it. I'm not sure if there's an official method or not, though.

It does not actually say so, it does not specify any rounding mechanism.

You may be correct, but I have always assumed standard rounding.