Gearhead Challenge!

[veltyen]

Playing with some numbers.

Distance 25000 LY = 7670 parsecs
At most a J6 ship can move 300 parsecs in a year, but this would involve jumping between fast-swap fuel dumps (ala x-boat networks)
That would be a 26 year journey one-way.
Time taken would depend on the commonality of potential fuel sources, even a slight deviation would push the distance covered into 10,000+ parsecs. Optimistic time for transit I would place at 200 years, with a good chance of the transit time being double this or more.

 

[GypsyComet]

Originally posted by Bhoins:

The best option would be to borrow a ship from Grandfather. (With a nice habitable world in the pocket universe that powers the ship.) That way you could get there relatively easily and have a whole planet of people along for the trip.

Of course, it could be "the Great Ship" from Robert Reed's "Marrow", too.

http://www.starbaseandromeda.com/reed.html
(spoilers abound, by the way)

 

[flykiller]

The ship will require capacity for a minimum of 1200 scientists and family in addition to the crew, and each crew member will likewise have allowance for 3 family members.

twelve hundred scientists?

will they still be scientists when they get there?

the ship would be easier to obtain than the crew. and obtaining the crew would be easier than controlling what the children decided to do.

 

[far-trader]

I was unclear there. The 1200 includes family members, so about 300 scientists. Which would also include teachers/professors for the generation(s) to follow. I expect there to be some gene-selection to tip the scales to science types in the population of scientists, and similarily in the crew side of the population. Well, in my version anyway. I think there'd be no problem finding excellent scientists in that number. Those willing to sign up for a lifetime mission like this, maybe fewer, unless we suppose them to also be Imperial Nobility with a strong sense of duty (Noblesse Oblige). The crew would also probably come from similar backgrounds. And perhaps there could be the incentive of stores of anagathics for some.

There could be many other ways of doing it, or perhaps we don't even need that many individuals. I've been too busy with other distractions to work out my own details yet so much of this is just off the cuff.

 

[Enoff]

Metamorphosis Alpha

Sounds like you are going to end up building the colony ship "Warden"

Interesting I found a whole website dedicated to this the first science fiction game by TSR http://www.metamorphosisalpha.com/ This was one of the first role playing games I ever owned along with Gamma World. Sadly I was too young to take care of it and only have the memory of ownership.

Check it out for some resource ideas and sample deck plans. Lets hope your colonist don't meet the same fate.

 

[flykiller]

yeah, it's only a game I know, and the ship sounds interesting.

but two hundred years of social pressures inside a small steel box? be one humungous case of cabin fever. I dunno man .... might be better off sending robots.

 

[far-trader]

Since starting this I've been picturing a (doomed) colony ship from an old BBC sci-fi TV series that I can't remember the name of. Same era as Blake's Seven and such, I know it'll come to me, eventually*

but feel free to jump in with the name if anyone knows what I'm rambling on about....

* The Starlost, maybe

...widely seperated biospheres that have forgotten they're on a great huge ship and gone native in various fashions, crew dead from some mysterious (don't want to give it all away) cause, heros get outside their biosphere(s) and <shock> learn the truth and must save everyone from... (again I don't want to give it all away )

Anyway, sending robots is boring (and in my vision people are required

) no matter how much more sensible. Besides I like the social engineering aspect of the challenge, that should be the focus imo, the structural and logistical work is a piece of cake comparitively

though equally fun.

 

[far-trader]

Ye gods! Now I am embarrassed I may have to forfeit my citizenship

Turns out the show I was thinking of was "The Starlost", my memory pulled that out at the last minute above, but, and here's the kicker eh, it was a Canadian production! How could I forget that, now I have to emigrate

Oh well, I always wanted a good excuse to move to Australia

Here's a site with some info if you're interested. I have to go pack

The Starlost

 

[Fritz_Brown]

I vaguely remember a book of the same sort from my HS days. The ship's crew had all gone "native" and had developed a religion concerning certain things on the ship. The main character has to break taboos and save the ship, while not having a clue what he's doing.

It might have been by Ben Bova or OS Card?

 

[flykiller]

Besides I like the social engineering aspect of the challenge, that should be the focus imo

social engineering? never work. you'll need a religion.

also need a ruling from the referee. how many years can a human remain in a low berth with no appreciable degradation? let the voodoo handwave dance begin.

 

[far-trader]

Originally posted by flykiller:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Besides I like the social engineering aspect of the challenge, that should be the focus imo

social engineering? never work. you'll need a religion.

also need a ruling from the referee. how many years can a human remain in a low berth with no appreciable degradation? let the voodoo handwave dance begin. </font>[/QUOTE]Religion isn't social engineering?

No offense intended.

Depends on the source but according to the most in depth article (from Traveller's Digest #21) 200 years at a stretch is no problem for the TL11 Cold Berths though external attachments are required for durations exceeding 60 days.

 

[Enoff]

Info about the show "Starlost" is interesting. Our public library here has several videos of the British series UFO from the 70s. Be cool if they were able to get videos of this series.

 

[far-trader]

Yeah, I have fond memories of the show but I was younger so it could be depressing watching it with older eyes.

btw a belated welcome aboard Enoff

 

[Enoff]

Thanks Far-trader

Good to be here! Just starting to get back to my rpg roots

I hope to contribute soon as I get my books and materials organized. S!

 

[Jeff M. Hopper]

Anyone know if a jump-drive equipped Bussard Ramjet would work for this mission? You'd get the best of both worlds, relativistic time dilation and FTL jumping.

Build it on an asteroid hull and leave most of the asteroid unmined. Then you have a nearly self-contained space colony with its own resources making the trip. Don't forget to fill sections of it with ice for volatiles.

(shameless plug)
Hey, this could become part of the Imperial Cultural Exchange Program....

 

[jhulse]

I would like to point out that in the T20 rules there is an alternate rule that allows GM's to use a 5% rule for Jump fuel as apposed to the 10% rule. Can we use this rule for a T20 design?


As an aside... IMTU (thinking about this anyway) many of the canon rules state the average tech level of the Emperium is 12. (Please correct me if I'm wrong someone.) I have always thought that all the "canon" design rules were based on Tech12 including the 10% rule. I had been thinking of increasing that as tech goes down, and decreasing as tech goes up. This reflects similar fuel consumption rates of first generation jet engines to modern jet engines. Again this is only a thought and is nowhere close to being implemented. To much darned work...

T10 = 12
T11 = 11
T12 = 10%
T13 = 9%
T14 = 8%
T15 = 7%
T16 = 6%
T17 = anti-matter (?)%

 

[BetterThanLife]

Originally posted by flykiller:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Besides I like the social engineering aspect of the challenge, that should be the focus imo

social engineering? never work. you'll need a religion.

also need a ruling from the referee. how many years can a human remain in a low berth with no appreciable degradation? let the voodoo handwave dance begin. </font>[/QUOTE]That is one thing that needs handwaving. Here is the other. The Black Prince (EA1001) needs Jump fuel yet it has an Anti-Matter Powerplant. Grandfather's ship (Secret of the Ancients) doesn't require jump fuel and the powerplant is powered by a pocket starsystem. Since the jumpdrive isn't using Fusion to power things up (or you could use anti-matter for jump drive as well as powerplant) how does a Jump drive actually use the hydrogen? Is it the equivalent of an internal combustion and it burns it?

The reason I am asking is a rather interesting concept I had for this ship. Stick a Jump drive on a Dyson Sphere. That way you are taking a whole eco system with you.

 

[Tekrat04]

Originally posted by Fritz88:
I vaguely remember a book of the same sort from my HS days. The ship's crew had all gone "native" and had developed a religion concerning certain things on the ship. The main character has to break taboos and save the ship, while not having a clue what he's doing.

It might have been by Ben Bova or OS Card?

The book you are looking for is "End of Exile" form "The Exiles Trilogy" by Ben Bova.

 

[far-trader]

Originally posted by Jak Nazrith:
I would like to point out that in the T20 rules there is an alternate rule that allows GM's to use a 5% rule for Jump fuel as apposed to the 10% rule. Can we use this rule for a T20 design?

Sure, just make a note of it so people know the optional rule was used.

 

[flykiller]

Religion isn't social engineering?

if you treat it as social engineering, it fails.

two hundred years of safe lowberth time is sufficient. brief back-of-the-envelope calculations using HG2 suggest that a jump 6 ship of 1,000,000 dtons could support up to 40,000 dtons of payload. if an average jump of four parsecs, and an average jump rate of twenty-five jumps per year, are assumed then a straight-line transit will require eighty years. assume some twisties, say ninety years. assume twenty years on target. overall, two hundred years there and back, conservative estimate (there are likely to be many opportunities to exercise five and six parsec jumps, and the experienced return will likely take a more optimal path than the exploratory outbound).

the manned approach using the least amount of "social engineering" will involve lowberths and multiple crews. twenty full ship crews take turns, one year on duty and nineteen years in lowberth. this will allow the entire ship's complement to perform and observe the entire journey and return to tell the tale, having served a doable total of ten years on duty. it also allows for some casualties.

the payload portion of the personnel - scientists, support personnel, whatnot - need only be awake on approach to "the anomoly" (I can hear the theme music in the background).

the vessel will require a full industrial facility capable of processing raw materials and manufacturing all or most shipboard components. this facility will be a limiting factor of such a journey. high recycleability of materials will be vital. low tech - less reliable but more easily fabricated and repaired - may be preferable in most cases.

food may be the worst problem.