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Goodies for Nobles: Rough stuff..

Knight: 1 hex on world, importance depends on Knight

Baron: A triangle on a World or Satellite, Again, Importance to merit.

Marquis: A star System

Count: Three Star Systems or one kickass one.*

Duke: Subsector*

Sector Duke: Sector*

*Characters at this level should not have to worry about money in most circumstances.
 
How 'bout the Baronet? Equivalent socially to a Knight, but is the landowner version?

On the theory that the knights are the "gofers" or troubleshooters of the nobility.
 
Jame, I was thinking the same thing. I never figured the Knight rank came with an estate. I also used Baronet as the lowest level of "landed" nobility.

Being from the US, what I know about nobility, I read in fantasy novels ;) , so I am probably totally off with everything I come up with in this area, then again, in 3000+ years, and Vilani influences, who's to say that I'm not right? (OK all together now... "You're not right"
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I used:

Baronet: Starport Highport or Downport, but with some territory as Fief.

Baron: Starport or secondary world spaceport.

Marquis: Star System

Count: Many star systems (2d6) maybe an entire sub-sector if it is not a duchy.

Duke: Sub-Sector (+counties)

Arch-Duke: Sector

Viceroy: Domain/Region larger than a Sector but smaller than the Imperium.

Remember, I did all this before the MT Rebellion, so IMTU Domains were something I came up with, not the OTU domains. Interestingly enough, the Domain of Deneb was what I used. It included everything from the choke-point in Corridor to Spinward. Very similar to what became the Domain of Deneb in MT (if I read all the posts right). Great minds think alike!
 
IMTU:

Knights: have no land holdings, they are the journeymen nobles who perform administrative functions on an intenerant basis: i.e., imperial messengers etc.

Baronets: Equivalent in rank to knights, but hold responsibility over a demense. IMTU the only current Baronets represent client states in the moot.

Barons: hold one or more starsystem.

Counts: hold most subsectors also all holders of five or more systems are counts (the line between count and baron is somewhat fuzzy-if you can put enough politcal clout together, you can be made a count. I do have one population 9 tech level 16 planet IMTU, and it is held by a Count-his only holding.

Marquis: This is a count in a border subsector. This Count has more power than would be typical for the office. IMTU the marquis has the right to use the imperial marines at his discretion. Ordinarlity the Imperial maries are directed solely by the emperor or the archduke, or in time of war by the proper military commander. Also IMTU a Marquis MUST have held flag Rank in the Navy or General rank in the Imperial Marines.

Duke: I reserve this title for members of the imperial family not immediately related to the emperor. It is independent of actual holdings.
Also Crowned heads of client states are, while in the imperium, given the courtesy title of Duke. The title does progress in perpetuity, so the heir of a duke is also a duke, even if the imperial dynasty changes. Thus IMTU there are quite a few more dukes than the office might suggest.

Also a former Archduke become a duke upon retirement or, more rarely, removal from office (assuming the removal was not for treason or such).

Archdukes: Hold Sectors and Domains-as a practical matter IMTU the Archduke of a domain is appointed Archduke for each sector in his domain, so the titles merge, there are a two exceptions, so the formailty remains in place.

Princes: members of the immediate imperial family only. (Some client states have kings or sovereign princes-on thier worlds they use this title, in the imperium they use the courtesy title of duke).

The Emperor, of course is free to bestow any title for any reason, but this is rarely done in exception to the above hierarchy.

In addition the moot may appoint barons, and make barons into counts. any such titles are ultimately reccomendations from the moot, and are approved by the emperor(usually just a formality). this contribute to the fuzzy line between counts and barons.

Finally, the sector Archduke may also appoint barons and counts, again subjected to imperial approval, which is typically a formality.

Only the emperor my strip a title by attainder. This requires a legal determination in an imperial court, and any noble may appeal his case directly to the emperor, who must hear it.
 
Originally posted by Crashlogic:
Duke: ...Also Crowned heads of client states are, while in the imperium, given the courtesy title of Duke. ...
I like this one. Nice little touch.

I must admit that I never considered how other powers would be treated within the Imperium. IMTU, Duke might be a bit high in rank, but I can see parallels.
 
IMTU:

Landed
Knight/Dame/Baronet: Subsidiary ports in system, or some aspect of the main port.

Baron: Main port in a typical system. Subsidiary ports in major systems. May be subinfeudated by imperial order, to a count, or marquis.

Count: Main Port in an important system, or in charge of a minor cluster.
Marquis: significant cluster, or vital worlds (A-port, pop 9+, tl 9+; not NI/NA/Ba)

Duke: Subsector.
Sector Duke: Sector
Archduke: Domain.

Non Landed:
These are for "titled" non-landed non-reward nobles.
Knights: Stocks generally providing KCr3/month.
Barons: roughly KCr5/month
Counts: Roughly KCr10/month
Marquis: Roughly KCr15/month
Duke: Roughly KCr20
 
Baron SG,

MTU is different, naturally, because my campaings were different. As odd as it seems, I never had a player who wanted a noble character. Never. I had players who became knights in chargen or earned even higher rewards, but no one ever said to me I want to be the Duke of Earl or Count of Ten in this campaign. Not one. Weird, huh?

Because of this, I never had to come up with anything but the most general guidelines regarding what each level of nobility owned or was owed.

So, IMTU, a knight could be a mega-bazillionaire and a duke could be living on Purina Groat Chow because all of his wealth is tied up in hereditary, non-negotiable, property.

In my campaigns, nobles were events even more than they were patrons. People working for nobles were the patrons, the players normally dealt with the duke's people's people.

I also played up the idea of the planetary nobility and reprocity. The players interacted with planetary nobles far more often than the Imperial variety.

Reprocity meant that the commons had to treat a 'duke' like a 'duke' no matter if they were planetary or Imperial. The Imperial nobility does not look kindly on any noble being treated shabbily because that reflects on all nobles. In public, the Duchess Of Glisten will treat the Duke Of Bugtussle will all the deference due a duke. Behind closed doors is another matter naturally. However if the Imperium recognises your patent; i.e. it didn't come out of a gumball machine, you'll be treated well in public by Imperial nobles and they'll make sure the commons don't 'cut' or 'snub' you in any manner. There are exceptions of course, but that is the general guideline.

I also mixed up planetary and Imperial patents in single holders in order to play games with precedence. Some may remember the problems the kings of England had with the kings of France because of their also holding a title as the duke of Normandy.

One subsector IMTU was the site of a pre-Imperial, Long Night, pocket empire. That empire didn't exactly join the Imperium willingly but it wasn't exactly conquered either. Because of this, the PE's emperor of the time was made an Imperial marquis and the Imperial admiral who handled the 'admission' became the subsector duke. The PE emperor maintained his planetary title and, while his political powers over the PE's worlds were lost, he kept a great deal of cultural and ceremonial 'power'.

As the centuries passed, the subsector dukes gained a lesser planetary title through marriage. That put the subsector dukes in the planetary precedence system. In purely planetary affairs, the subsectors duked while wearing their planetary hats would have to relinquish precedence to many nobles they greatly outranked in the Imperial system and even some people who weren't in the Imperial system at all!

This was used to great effect to create all sorts of political shenanigans.

I guess what I'm trying to say is don't reduce the nobles IYTU to a look up or a die roll on a table. Keep 'em vague so you can mold them more easily to meet your needs.


Have fun,
Bill
 
I noticed something. Domains of Four Sectors would not work, as there would be a vast difference in economic might between them. Think of the Domains, and how each stands next to each other. One or two could never be stopped by the others, in any regard. There would be constant Civil War with four-sector Domains.

Also, The Barons of the Moot would be in a good position to also plunge the Imperium into civil war. An Uprising of Officers in a way. Based on Number of Barons, it would be trouble! (good game idea: Baron-Led Coup.)

This would later on be reflected in the "Prince" category, which I dumped. If there were Princes in a bigger number than two, it would be constant war... (also good game idea!: The transition out of the Prince system, and why they changed it... )

"Holdings" described below are intended economic features given to nobles to control. They can be anything. Factories, Starports, Mines, Research Stations, Hospitals, what have you . I am making a new table describing these, and the economic system that goes with them. So far each holding has a base value, and generates or loses a fluctuating amount of MCr income for the noble. These are sort of like properties that can be sold and even traded between nobles. But ONLY between nobles.


Revised:

B: Knight/Dame, gets Order Membership and assigned one of the following:
1-2 Command of World Hex
3-4 Command of Imperial Company
5-6 Command of Imperial Squadron

Heraldry Device: Hexagon

B: Baronet. Baronet Takes Triangle. A work Baron. Triangle typically single Holding, Estate, etc.

Holdings: One

Heraldry Device: Triangle

C: Baron/Baroness. Baron takes World Or Satellite. Every inhabited Planet has a Baron. The position is one of public service, with the Baron seen as a "noble of the People." Closely tied to that world's population. It is that this level that Nobles learn population control/domestic governance.

Holdings: 3

Heraldry Device: Imperial Moon or Planet.

D: Marquis/Marquesa: Marquis controls one Star System, in toto, only answering to Counts and above. The Marquis has all say in dispentations of System Resources and Wealth. It is that this level of Government that Nobles learn Interstellar Trade.

Holdings: 5

Heraldry Device: Imperial Star (five point), Tri-color Pennant

E: Count/Contessa: Count Controls a County of one or two or three worlds, dependent upon that worlds value in economic strength. A typical arrangement would have the County Seat an A Class Starport, and other County Arms be "lesser" worlds of lower starport or tech level factors.
It is at this level that Subsector Politics are Learned.

Holdings: 7

Heraldry Device: Imperial Star with appropriate number of orbiting Stars.

F. Duke/Duchess: Controls an Entire Subsector from Subsector Capital. This character has the resources of that subsector at his personal disposal. Subsector Navy, Army, etc. All personally commanded by the Duke. It is at this level that Sector Politics are learned. Try to picture a newly promoted Count entering a room with 15 other Dukes for the first time...

Holdings: 9

Heraldry Device: Imperial Starburst overlaid with Bilandin Initials of Subsector. Bi Color Pennant.

G. Sector Duke: Controls an entire Sector. Again, in most cases, this character does not need to even touch money. It is at this level that Imperial Politics are Learned.

Holdings: 11

Heraldry Device: Imperial Sunburst overlaid with Bilandin initials of Sector

H. Archduke: Controls a Domain of two Sectors. It is from here that Imperial Successors are found.

Holdings: 13

Heraldry Device: Imperial Sunburst Overlaid with Personal Heraldry.

I. Emperor. I for Imperator. Controls the Third Imperium. Deals routinely in Universal Politics.

Holdings: ALL

Heraldry Device: Imperial Sunburst Imperial. Imperial Heraldry.
 
In looking back at Kingmaker, one thing that is outstanding is that titles and offices are not the same thing. A Sector governor might not be a Duke per se, but a Count with more influence with the Emperor or the Moot. You might have a Duke with no government position at all because he is a Tory and the Whigs are in power.

Perhaps one of our UK brethern could contribute on this?
 
I agree with BillDowns. I have been reading George R. R. Martins "A Feast for Crows" so I have nobility on the brain right now.

Traveller seems to use the British nobility model for the most part. We have all assumed that title automatically equates with more/larger Fiefs. This doesn't have to be true. Would you rather be the Count of 4 Class A Starport Industrial worlds or the Duke of The Backwater Subsector (TM)?

Would the idea of a Sherrif separate from the Baron work in Traveller?
 
The above would assume that the Holdings would be for PERSONAL holdings, one directly operated by the noble, this would be a base, as I am sure that nobles good at running robot factories would get more of them to run. The number should go up and down onthe situation.

Also, the other variability goes with the post. The Emperor, according to this would have 13 Holdings, and many many others, but these would be the best in the Empire.

Consider: Disparate power levels are one thing, but the Moot system would keep any Counts in Check. Sure, he or she may be qualified to be Emperor, but there is a little matter of getting to the Iridium Throne to handle.
 
This is a rough table idea for a CT like generation system for Noble Holdings. Referees should allow noble to pick, or Referee picks category, like skills.

Moot Holdings:

1. Command (Of Squadron or Company)
2. Yacht (In addition to any from Muster)
3. Starport (Admin thereof)
4. Spaceport (Admin Thereof)
5. Court Influence (To higher source)
6. Political Marriage. (To higher or lower SOC)

Economic Concerns

1. Agricultural (Farm of any kind)
2. Merchantile (Store, Franchise, Trade Company)
3. Industrial (Factory, Mine)
4. Civic (School, Hospital, Library )
5. Research
6. Cultural (Museum, Theater, Amusement Center)

Noble Rights
1. Right of Arms (can be armed at all times)
2. Right of Escort (personal guard)
3. Right of Free Passage (high Passage)
4. Right of Decree
5. Right of Pardon
6. Right of Dissent

Income Entitlements
1. Inhieritance ( MCr 4d, One time payout)
2. Grant (2d MCr one time payout)
3. Yacht (stacks with muster or repeat rolls)
4. Estate (1d Hexes on any world, satellite)
5. Pension (1d Mcr per year)
6. Megacorporate Stock (2d% of Noble Family Holdings of megacorp.)
 
Nice system. cut and paste... ;)

This system assumes that everyone is a titled noble. How does it work for non-titled nobles.

If my character is the fourth child of the third child of the Duke of Nowhere, I probably have no fief or holdings, but I would still have a SS of C+. So, what is my "title" Do I just get to be called "My Lord" and know what fork to use at a 9 course meal? How do you address that situation?

For NPC's I can just hand wave and off we go, but if a player rolls a Hi SS, that doesn't HAVE to mean that they get a fief/position does it? If I remember the Noble Class, you roll for actual fief. I figure this is how most characters that had their SS raised during service end up. They have been Knighted or more, but they don't really get any money or land or job out of it. Have I been doing this wrong?
 
I posit that they would take Birth Order out of it for the most part, or make that a choice of Marquis on up.

Example: My father, the Late Marquis Sidur Haski, has three of age (I define legal age at 14 imtu) children, My older Brother (who is now Marquis, and a Naval Commander) Me and My Sister. When we all came of age, my father installed each of us on a Barony in System. I got the Third Sidur Haskian moon of Sidur Haski Prime, Saano, the drydock moon. And so , my title properly is Baron Saano. These Entitlements are directly created by my father, and are all sub-fiefs of the Sidur Haski Holding.

Beyond that, you get into the area where people potentially can get killed in bad political appointments. I would think that Marquis+ would all be Merit Titles of Aristocracy. I think by the 57th century the folly of true hereditary monarchy would be discovered, and avoided. THis may work like this to weed out any Caligulas or Neros.

Advancement beyond Barony requires Moot Support of the Patent. This brings the noble in question into close scrutiny by the peerage to see how he or she is as a person. How he or she is "Socially". After a few State Functions, which would be designed to "test" the noble, it would become clear who is insane or corrupt, and who will be a competent ruler. It can be something as trivial as the other nobles merely liking the new noble socially.

A descent into corruption later on by a noble in that case would be that noble's personal choice. Hereditary Rulership needs its thorns removed.

I have played noble characters, run noble characters, and even tried to start an all noble intrigue game. We did not even get out of character creation, as it was found out that the titles and holdings add roughly another 200% to character creation. Being a Noble should be hard. They should all be forced to work for the Peerage, and the peerage should be a self checking entity. The social mores of the Imperium may seem foppish or elitist, but they are designed to weed out undesirables. (The Greedy, The Bloodthirsty, etc.) Those unwilling or unable to play the game, soon find themselves censured or worse.

All of the above benefits are tradeoffs. Yes, you may get an Industrial Concern, but think of how much it would take to administer. Even finding an agent administrator would be a job in itself.

There are some, like the cash ones, that are basically a free ride, but bear in mind that nobles MUST maintain a lifestyle that fits his station. That money can get eaten up pretty quick.

Also, consider the REferee fun you could have with Political Marriage. My favorite was Count Rruaro, a Noble Aslan Citizen, who tried to remain a bachelor, but was compelled by the Hirate and Imperium to marry. 15 times! He had six traditional Aslan wives (nobles that did not even speak Galanglic) and the rest as modern Aslan Females.

So being a noble should be a challenge. Marquis and beyond should require work to stay at your station in life.
 
Keep in mind also that your average Star System has a lot of moons and planets, and each of those has a lot of triangles and hexes. Holdings should be no problem to get, but hard to run. Always a tradeoff. Even Merit nobles should get a holding fief, even if they must rule in absentia.

Referees should make an effort to tie down noble characters with responsibility, especially the ones that want a title but no work with it.
 
My assumption about nobles in the party was usually based on one of three approaches:

1. The character's holdings, whereever they were, were not particularly solvent. The noble character got whatever retirement and mustering out benefits and little else, but could apply their SS to Liaison and Admin tests in many situations. (In some situations, they could apply both SS and the normally-governing stat.)

2. The second approach was that the PC is the sixth child or something like that, and while the family is quite powerful, their political pull is limited. Especially if they use that influence to get out of serious trouble a few times.

GM: "After bailing out the whole party from the Regina jail system, your uncle writes you a letter disowning you. Lose 4 points of SS."
3. The third approach I've used over the years, which requires player cooperation, is that the noble's holdings are worth quite a lot, but are tied up in feeding their people, maintaining the regent's check on the rebels, etc. The noble, absent from his holdings for whatever reason, could access that money, but his people will starve/not get that new hospital/otherwise suffer. This requires that the PC give a darn about the wellbeing of his subjects, of course.
 
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