Granicus, Pirate Haven?

[BetterThanLife]

OK the concept of having a Planet, protected by political power being a place for Pirates to hang out, get repairs, run a chopshop, etc is an important concept. But Granicus?

I am willing to accpet that the UWP profile is wrong and hefty bribes are being paid to keep it that way. (Class D Starport, TL6.) But as far as location goes it is so bad as to more than negate any of the possible political benefits.

The typical canon Corsair is a Jump-2 ship. (Both the "Standard 400 Ton Corsair and the Vargr 400 Ton Corsair.") Ethically challanged merchants, or Merchant ships turned Corsair are also limited to Jump-2. The Mercenary Cruiser, Patrol Cruiser and Subsidized Liner would all make decent Corsairs and there is the Chameleon Class Corsair from FASA which are Jump-3.

There is only one Jump-2/Jump-3 route out of Granicus. It happens to take you away from the best hunting grounds in the Gimerdrift Reaches Sector and a Jump-2 ship, right into the hands of the Imperial Navy. Getting to the Phelinian Main or the Broken Chain is 6 months in a Jump-2 Crosair and it takes you through the Delphi Worlds to get there. Establishing a Secret refueling base would allow you to exit Granicus to Coreward/Trailing, however with multiple, less than cordial, Pirate Cartels operating out of Granicus, one would think any secret refueling point would be destroyed by your rivals. That leaves a Tanker option. Both of these options leaves you extremely limited in your route. If the Imperial Navy is concerned about Pirates operating out of Granicus, but not Politically capable of intervening at Granicus directly, they could station a DesRon, at Lagu in the vicinity of the Gas Giants, and you would eliminate any Corsair traffic out of Granicus by Jump-2 Corsairs, even with a refueling base or Tanker usage.

A 6 month trip out to the Broken Chain might be worth the trip, though going through the Dellphi Worlds would be hairy, might be possible, getting back after receiving damage would be virtually impossible. Getting a Subsidized merchant or Free Trader back home would be absolutely impossible.

So I definitely don't get it. Why Granicus?

 

[mike wightman]

A deep space station - there aren't enough of those in Traveller IMHO - operated by pirate council.
The various cartels have to play nice because it is big enough to defeat most pirate fleets, and if you aren't in good favour with the council then you can't use the facilities.
The Navy would just love to learn its true location... a job for PCs perhaps

Or how about the pirate council has a war surplus jump frame/tender that can get the smaller pirate vessels into/out of a deep space hex...

the Navy wants to track down that jump frame...

(once they've found out about it)

 

[Michael Taylor]

Good old Canon. Granicus is a pirate haven because someone in the 80s said so.

 

[mike wightman]

Yeh, but now we can have fun coming up with WAGs as to why

 

[Michael Taylor]

deep space refueling depots are a great idea. Imagine the common area of that space station (!)

 

[veltyen]

Interstitial research stations.

If you are doing illegal research, you grab a research vessel, and a couple of far traders and park in a non-illuminated parsec. You extend on the research vessel with freespace modules to turn it into the research station of your dreams. The far traders are for re-supply.

While it has the problem that you need to bring in everything it is also really hard to find.

The same concept (or abandoned stations) would also make great pirate outposts.

 

[Liam Devlin]

Or one take one old bulk freighter, say a J-3 20kton, and 'park it' near a cometary body in same general 'empty' hex of space. You add on as you go, and keep shuttle there mining the cometary body for fuel to keep her running. Adding on modules to the airlocks, you soon have a 'junk-station' out in the middle of no where..

remove the jump drive, and add fuel bunkerage for your visting Pirate cartel friends, rivals, etc..

just some thoughts. Besides, that huge cargo hold makes for a dandy hangar bay, hidden C-class facility for repairs!

YMMV, of course!

 

[Whipsnade]

Check out the GTlanetary Survey for Granicus. You'll be surprised by the answers.

A lot of the trouble people have with envisioning pirate 'havens' is that they have a very muddied picture of just what a pirate haven does. Forget Port Royal and the pirate kingdom on Madagascar. They were the exceptions.

Havens like Granicus act as a clearing house for booty and little more. Pirate ships do not routinely stage out of Granicus, if at all. Pirate ships do not return to Granicus regularly, if at all. Many crewfolk hired at Granicus even travel elsewhere to meet their ships.

However, pirate ships send - via trusted third parties - the cargos they capture and people they kidnap to Granicus for dispersal. In return - again via trusted third parties - pirate ships recieve all the various items they need to keep in business.

Granicus is a clearing house, a chandlery, a hiring hall, and a lending institution that asks no questions. Granicus will buy from and sell to anyone as long as they have the credits. Granicus is not a pirate 'base'.

What is that IN DesRon off Lagu going to find anyway? One thing they won't find is a stream of corsairs jumping in and out of Granicus. One thing they will find are honest, legitimate merchantmen going about their legal business.

You say that cargo was stolen? Prove it because I've got paperwork that says otherwise. You say that fellow in the Low Berth #4 has been kidnapped? Prove it because I've got paperwork that says otherwise and he'll agree with me. You say those passengers are newly hired pirates travelling to meet their ship? Prove it.

Can the IN start impounding dozens of honest merchant ships from a non-aligned world on charges of aiding and abetting piracy? Can the IN seize dozens of cargos for the same reason? Can the IN hold onto suspicious passengers? Apparently for various political and extra-Imperial relations reasons the IN cannot do any of those things. Yet.

And the honest, legitimate merchantmen of Granicus continue to ply their legal trade.


Have fun,
Bill

 

[BetterThanLife]

I have read the GT: Planetary Survey Granicus.

Granicus goes from a TL6 world with a Class D starport in 993 to a TL (approximately)12 with a class A Starport by 1110, or whenever GT is set.

There are major ship building facilities in the Granicus GT sourcebook.

The sense I get from the GT Sourcebook is that it is indeed the central base of operations, repair center and disposal site. So the Corsairs are indeed operating out of Granicus.

Sorry Bill, your explaination that it is only a clearing house doesn't mesh with what is actually published in the Sourcebook, especially if you apply Occam's Razor to the work.

Taking both Gateway Domain and GT:Granicus together is even more puzzling. Since the Imperium has known about Granicus since before 993, I can see them not doing anything overt, I can't see the Imperial Navy allowing Granicus to develope as rapidily as it apparently has. While they may not have authority to intervene directly, I can see pressure being applied, subtle sabotage, embargoes, covert ops all designed to slow, and discourage the planet from being able to maintain and build Corsairs.

 

[mike wightman]

I don't think that QLI's Gateway era Granicus was ever meant to develop into the GT version.

I don't think that QLI uses any GT stuff as "canonical".

But then, I don't have the GT world books - yet

 

[Anthony]

SJG produced the Granicus worldbook well before QLI did any development of Gateway (had they known that QLI was going to develop the area, they would probably have chosen a different world, not stepping on QLI's turf, as a pirate haven). From some postings at the time, QLI did make some effort to be compatible with the granicus book.

 

[Chuck Anumia]

Originally posted by Bill Cameron:

Can the IN start impounding dozens of honest merchant ships from a non-aligned world on charges of aiding and abetting piracy? Can the IN seize dozens of cargos for the same reason? Can the IN hold onto suspicious passengers? Apparently for various political and extra-Imperial relations reasons the IN cannot do any of those things. Yet.

And the honest, legitimate merchantmen of Granicus continue to ply their legal trade.


Have fun,
Bill

Can you say Gitmo Bay?

The IN woudn't do that would they?

 

[Liam Devlin]

Hmmm. 'As is' by QLI's take for 993, I can see the interpretation that his excellency Bill Cameron takes.

I think however, the other valid points of UWP interpretation by each GM on 'how can this be?' to their gamers (or themselves, as they have to explain to the players first) could be utilized here.

GT and QLI part company OTU-wise, and each has their own desmene[domain] here.

Certainly, a freeport that allows pirated swag to be brought and sold off here has merit, and has been done before. One of our CoTI members here, Manax Darkhstarr's site:http://www.darkhstarr.com/

is full of example worlds that do just that.

Granicus's position astrographically and what the limits of the small IN forces operating out of the fringe end of Glimmerdrift Sector there will play a role in its' existence, not to mention its thriving, and that the Solomani Rim War is going on in the QLI-verse of 993, so Naval forces have been moved rimwards to fight the Solomani Confederation's effort for full autonomy, let us not forget.

For now, I'm going with my take there is a base there, and its not on the UWP. YMMV, of course.

Have a great weekend guys!

 

[Jame]

What exactly are the Delphi Worlds?

 

[Liam Devlin]

The Verge Subsector [M] of the Glimmerdrift Sector, containing 27 Imperial worlds, is administrated from the Domain of Delphi, though technically part of Gateway domain.

Key places of interest there:
The highest Tech is TL-D, found on 4x worlds:

PARADISE [0131] B300A99-D N Hi In 512 Id M2 V O9D;

Eduukhiima [0331] B100637-D Ni Va 213 Id G4 V A4 D;

Ulaginkiir [0638] B210763-D S Ni 212 Id M0 V; &

ILARIA [0837] B796A65-D Hi In 223 Id M8 III.

Lowest tech is TL-3 found 4x planets:

Arrilinshu [0233] D757545-3 Ag Ni 803 Id K4 II;

Dimirbukhiir [0338] X889449-3 Ni 805 Id K8 V M0 V;

Guziikumgii [0431] D491778-3 Ni 104 Id M3 V; &

Mishanuumlir [0637] C251885-3 Po 200 Id M2 V M7 D.

There are only 2x A-class Imperial ports here:

Sha [0432] AA97334-A W 614 Id F7 V; &

Lamente [0635] A88A873-B N Ri Wa 404 Id M0 V M2 D.

The rest of the 17x worlds fall between TL-5 thru 9, C-class ports predominating making this a very backwater subsector, Jame. Highest popualtion is 50 billions on PARADISE, & 20 billions on ILARIA. Lowest population is on 110-796 [0536] BAB4001-B 704 Id K9 V M5 D, which appears to be a colony or outpost from Lamente of seven folks.

Only two naval bases, and they've too been stripped of major combatants for the Rim War. No doubt the planetary navies remain for patrolling purposes, but the big guns have moved off to the Rim War for the time being, so its a frontier subsector very much so.

[Entirely extracted from QLI's Gateway to Destiny Pdf/ book].

Hope this helps Jame.

 

[Jame]

It helps me want to get the Gateway to Destiny book - the printed, bound, non-pdf.

 

[MJD]

You should do that. I hear it's rather good...

 

[BetterThanLife]

Originally posted by MJD:
You should do that. I hear it's rather good...

Well aside from missing the Imperial Subsector Capitals and a couple of minor interesting inonsistancies with UWPs, inherent in the system in the first place, I would say that rather good is a serious understatement.

 

[Jame]

Originally posted by MJD:
You should do that. I hear it's rather good...

You say that 'cause you wrote it.

Don't worry - if I don't get it myself, I'll talk one of my parents into it, as a birthday present of course...

 

[Whipsnade]

Bruce,

I dragged out the GT Granicus book, ran some numbers, re-read some of the historical and current 'pirate' information I have and started to compose a response.

Then it hit me; Why bother?

You've made your mind up and, if there is anything I've learned about reading you here at COTI, nothing will change it. This is like the thread a few months ago when I tried to explain to Jamus why sentient sophonts do not have to be upright bipeds with five fingered hands and why extraterrestial bioipsheres will not be carbon (pun intended) copies of Earth's. The game isn't worth the candle.

The upshot? Granicus is not a pirate haven IYTU, Granicus continues to be a pirate haven in the OTU along with many other personal TUs, and we all have fun playing a game.

For the rest of you, ponder these points:

- Count the number of pirate ships Granicus actually supports and run that number past the total population of the planet.
- Pay close attention to the number of ships the largest 'pirate' organization actually owns.
- Pay close attention to what the largest 'pirate' organization actually does. Where do most of it's profits come from for instance.
- Pay close attention to how many 'pirate' vessels are truly independent, how many are 'hired' for the work by others, and how many are actually owned by planetside corporations.


Have fun and think outside the box,
Bill