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Growing older and RPG violence

Absolutely! I've definately grown less and less comfortable with violence in gaming as the years have passed (I'm 38 today!).

Time was when it was all about the kewl weapons and torturing and killing. We were the good guys and they were the bad guys, afterall.

I think a lot of it lies in the fact that the greyness of the real world has infected my fantasy worlds. I can't think of antagonists as simply 'badguys' anymore. They are people with families and friends and lives of their own. They were once someone's little boy or girl and even if they are the most hateful, evil, malicious scumbag I'm still not convinced killing or torturing them is the way forward.

I even feel pangs of pity for non-sentient creatures and beasts. They're only doing what they do to survive.

Nowhere was this brought home to me more clearly than when I participated in a Traveller game via GRiP a few years back. We'd quashed an attempt to board our ship by 'bad guys' disguised as system security. We had a bunch of them subdued in the hold and then, without warning one of the other players started spacing them one by one - or at least he tried to. I was so horrified by the utterly cold, dispassionate way that the other character (and ultimately the character's player) reacted to human life I challenged him, and it ended in a mexican standoff broken by the Captain who ruled in my favour.

It was all done in character and in good nature (that is to say there was no animosity between myself and the other player) but it made me realise that my attitude towards violence in roleplaying had changed.

Crow
 
I'll have to go the opposite way from Scarecrow - in games is the only place I get to do black & white vs shades of gray. Bad guys (well, the important ones at the top, anyway) are truly evil, aren't interested in redemption, and will only take any opportunities you give them to kill you or escape. I live in the RW, I don't necessarily want to play in it.
 
veltyen said:
I don't know if it is age.

Different settings imply different responses. So do different characters.

What is fun in a pseudo-pre-medieval setting isn't the same things as in a modern day game.

As I age I have noticed a tendency to more sedate settings, partly because the brute analysis of archetype build effectiveness does get a little boring.
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yes, I've played games like Rifts and if your character isn't covered in weapons and armor and has 20 psionic abilities, you're in trouble, because you'll probably be facing 20 or 30 opponents over the course of an adventure that do have something similar.

Reading "Listen Up You Primitive Screwheads!!!" for Cyberpunk 2020 mentioned that Traveller at one point vied for the top spot among games with characters sporting the most weapons. p51. It goes on to mention how CP2020 and Twilight 2000 begin to eclipse that mythical title, but a para or two later counsels that a lot of armanent isn't really necessary and how toting around too much of it attracts unwanted attention. Which I believe is counseling the GMs towards minimizing combat at the drop of a hat.
 
But I/m 45 now, and my female Aslan's favorite personal weapon is still a RAM-grenade launcher... and I have just found this: the PAW-20!

"Now there is a new offering from South Africa; the Neopup P.A.W. (Personal Assault Weapon), also known as the PAW-20. This introduces its own 20x42 cartridge made by PMP – Denel Munitions. It is something of a hybrid, because it fires what are basically normal 20mm HEI cannon projectiles, but from a very small case to keep the velocity down."

PAW20-1.jpg


http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/PAW.htm
 
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I always thought there ought to be ways to advance in a game besides just killing something, but that didn't stop me from playing that type of game. To me part of the appeal of Traveller is that you don't have to go kill somebody or something to advance in the game.
 
The cannon is -- interesting, but with low velocity I'm not clear on the role. Perhaps door busting and room clearing (which, to be fair is more an offensive operation than defense, but...hey...).

As a kid, we played pretty much combat heavy. Auto RAM grenade launchers being a party favorite, right BASIC programs to calculate the damage from a VRF Gauss gun on some poor soul who got too close to the air raft one day.

We also has a style of play where we'd be N levels deep in some complex and the Ref says "See that clock? You have 45 minutes clock time to get out of here". In that mode, combat got pretty sloppy...

When I play World of Warcraft, it's great fun taking my high level character in to low level areas and doing wholesale destruction. It's simply a hoot.

I think combat is a good outlet, best acted out with dice and markers. But intellectually, it's not the most interesting if that's all there is.

What's interesting is I used to play Masters of Orion 2 (great game). And toward the end, I'd hate and be "angry" at the computer players. It turned out to be most efficient to simply genocide their worlds than garrison them and add more detail work to my already long turns. I was angry at the computer for "choosing" genocide over surrender, it "bothered" me obliterating computer bits. Very odd. Kinda of like the "tired Indiana Jones" scene in the marketplace where he shoots down the big swordsman, only with starships and fusion weapons instead of a .38.

From a gaming point of view, combat is simple. The goals tend to be clear, and the clarity and simplicity weigh easy on the mind compared to Subsector politics.

So, as you can imagine, I prefer a more "cinematic" feel to my games, they're more fun doing shoot n scoot, chasing and being chased.
 
I think in some ways getting older might make some people more inclinded to violent solutions to problems in some cases.

Basically, when you're young you can be full of optimism and belief in the power of compromise, reason, live and let live, etc.

As you get older you realize a lot of people aren't reasonable, and can't be reasoned with. They're arrogant, they're bullies, they're fanatics, whatever. The point is that they're going to force their ways on others and make those who won't yield to them suffer or destroy them.

Maybe younger gamers would go for an elaborate "Mission:Impossible" solution involving discrediting or blackmailing the scumbag into neutrality. But more experienced gamers might realize that sometimes making an example out of one person like that can discourage dozens of wanna-be tyrants or bullies.

So while the younger gamers might go for a mission:impossible type solution, the more seasoned gamer might just get himself a good rifle with a good scope, find a good location, set the range for 1000 yards, allow for windage and at the first chance he got, BOOM!

Problem solved.
 
ozbonius_2000 said:
Diplomacy is great and all that, but nothing says "please" like a Boot to the Head...
Click to expand...

Amen! :)

Nah, seriously, RPGs are the one chance we have to come up with solutions that aren't feasible in the real world. Enjoy those Boots to the Head. They come all too infrequently. :)
 
The Thing said:
So while the younger gamers might go for a mission:impossible type solution, the more seasoned gamer might just get himself a good rifle with a good scope, find a good location, set the range for 1000 yards, allow for windage and at the first chance he got, BOOM!

Problem solved.
Click to expand...

I think as I've gotten older, I've found that the violent solution just creates more problems than it solves. Exit character to prison planet Dinom or summary justice shallow grave.

It's obviously a matter of personal choice, and everyone's choice is by definition right for them. Some NPCs I've felt the need to execute, which is totally against my personal beliefs, but there's only so much betrayal a PC can handle!

On the other hand, I've had PCs go into an assault situation and left everyone alive. It was ncredibly difficult and my PC spent a lot of time in a blackmarket hospital recuperating (the opposition didn't feel the need to pull any punches) but amazingly satisfying. I actually felt my PC really was a 'good guy'.
 
ChalkLine said:
On the other hand, I've had PCs go into an assault situation and left everyone alive. It was ncredibly difficult and my PC spent a lot of time in a blackmarket hospital recuperating (the opposition didn't feel the need to pull any punches) but amazingly satisfying. I actually felt my PC really was a 'good guy'.
Click to expand...

well, if I read you right the possibility for bloodlust is less in Traveller, when you shoot someone with a bullet (or the equivalent injury) then it can really hurt them, and you don't have to exterminate them, versus D&D where you're mostly at arms-length and can see them up close. you know they came at you with that axe or hammer etc. gunfire can echo from all over and you might not see your attacker in the same manner.

of course the other side of the coin is the game offers things like combat drugs and healing drugs (Healing Slow) which are the equivalent of magic potions in some cases. if you survive the gunfight, and have access to these types of things, you're likely to live and be up on your feet in a relatively short time. back to the grind! ;)

I guess I'd prefer not to have a massive battle each time out, but some gunfire and the occaisional assault situation isn't necesarily bad. one of the things I liked about Dune was that the setting was inherently dangerous, plus some of it's most deadly killers didn't rely on armor + big gun + massive strength, rather they administered it very subtley and usually very quickly.
 
pendragonman said:
I have actually found that I tend towards more violent confrontations than I did when I was younger. I am 42 also.

Perhaps it is my outlet for life's frustrations. After all, you can't kill those that piss you off IRL.
Click to expand...

Well, you can, but you'd go to jail... or worse!

While I do like interaction adventures, I will readily admit my greedy not-little inner munchkin; I do enjoy combat sometimes, but I would like to work on my characterization. (If it matters, I just turned 27.)
 
For our groups, it always depended on the game, itself.

CP2020, and Mechwarrior, hell even SW:RPG, lots of combat.

Conspiracy X, and Traveller, not a lot.

D&D, depends on the character types and levels.

7th sea, lots of generally non lethal combat.

GURPS, combat is rare and deadly. Especially mass / ship scale.

All depends.
 
As a player, I'm just as kill-happy as ever... as in, killing lots of monsters is loads of fun, but not the sole reason for belly-to-table. I've always sought less frontal solutions... like seducing Lolth to be able to backstab her conviniently.

In any case, as a GM, I'm good with non-combat and with combat heavy parties. My wife, however, definitely wants to have the chance to kill something every session, and gets grumpy when she can't. Likewise, she wants to talk to some NPC every session, too.

I've been running T&T, loads of hack there...
Before that:
L53 3rd Ed (in 1st ed setting)... lots of talk, plenty of monsters to kill
Pendragon 4th ed. Some talk, some action, some politics, and some getting older...
Arrowflight: set during a major war. Characters in service to The Royal Corvellian Navy... not all by choice, either.
Traveller: MT rules, 5th Frontier War. Active Duty Marine campaign. "Drop, take, and then hold until relieved..."
 
"Hook 'em, book 'em, rack 'em and stack 'em" has been the motto for the most part. There was a lot of fast forward action going on in the early days but guns blazing for the sake of firing for effect is no longer in picture. Save your ammo and place your shots is more like it now. I still love a good firefight especially a last ditched effort, but now I am more a "payback through the back door" player. What can I say, I turn 1/2 a century this month.

Still, there is nothing like a locked and loaded gauss rifle by your side!

Oh, and I'll take a Chicago too while your making 'em, HDV.
 
The Thing said:
I think in some ways getting older might make some people more inclinded to violent solutions to problems in some cases.

Basically, when you're young you can be full of optimism and belief in the power of compromise, reason, live and let live, etc.
Click to expand...


Recent headline news in the USA.... a bunch of 3rd graders who plotted (yes, they really did) to MURDER their teacher.


Why would a group of 6-9 third graders, boys and girls between the ages of 8
and 10, have handcuffs, duct tape, electrical and transparent tape, ribbons,
a crystal paperweight, and a broken steak knife? To attack their teacher!
What did this teacher do to invoke the wrath of these children? She scolded
one of the girls for standing on a chair. School officials and police in
Waycross, Georgia, which is located just north of Jacksonville, Florida,
were tipped off Friday to this plot by the children to attack their teacher.
All of the students involved have been suspended, with two girls, ten and
nine-years-old, along with an eight-year-old boy, facing multiple juvenile
charges of conspiracy, possession, aggravated assault, all in the third
grade.

Waycross Police Chief Tanner says the students apparently planned to knock
the teacher unconscious with a crystal paperweight, bind her with the
handcuffs and tape, and then stab her with the knife. He went on to add
that the third-graders assigned themselves different tasks including
covering-up the windows so people couldn’t look in down to cleaning up
afterwards.
 
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