Handling Skill Explosions

[atpollard]

The Military character started with 7 levels of skills across five skills, is now up to around 20 across a dozen over a decade of game time later. with about 7-8 new levels about to drop.

the Scout started with 10 points of skills across 9 skills, half a decade later it's 14 across 12 with 12-15 about to drop.

The characters are fine (ie. consistent with Advanced Chargen's 1-2 skills per year averages). The issue is one fundamental to the 2D6 game mechanics and how YOU'ALL want to play.

Skills above Level 3 tend to almost never fail on a 2D6 roll (>83% success rate).
If you have lots of skills that are 3+, then the characters will have lots of things that they almost never fail at.
If that is how "you all" want to play, then you have no problems.
If you enjoy 'swingy' mechanics (where you have lots of successes and lots of failures during play), then many high skill levels will interfere with having fun.

If you want both lots of skill levels and 'swingy' game mechanics, then I suggest a simple change from "roll 8+ on 2D6" to "roll 11+ on 3D6".

So, you see, this isn't really a question that someone else can answer for you. It comes down to what you and the players enjoy.

 

[Sir Brad]

I'm more used to seeing an average of 2-3 per term over the career (but occasionally an average as many as five per term over a short career) the thought of 12 or more dropping in short order (less than a game year) scares the Bejeasus out of me and having just 6 drop all at once just doesn't feel right.

 

[rancke]

I'm more used to seeing an average of 2-3 per term over the career (but occasionally an average as many as five per term over a short career) the thought of 12 or more dropping in short order (less than a game year) scares the Bejeasus out of me and having just 6 drop all at once just doesn't feel right.

Then limit skill gains to once every three months (or four months or two months or ten weeks, whatever fits with your idea of the maximum you can gain in a year) and let the players decide which ones they get first if more than one drops simultaneously.

Just keep in mind that your players have been expecting these skill levels. They've been working towards gaining them and may have been eagerly looking forward to gaining them. Don't take that away from them without explaning the problem and getting their consent.


Hans

 

[epicenter00]

One of the cherished things that Traveller players often point out is that Traveller is somehow superior to systems like Dungeons & Dragons because it lacks the concept of "levels."

While I agree that skill-based systems do have that advantage of avoiding the tyranny of levels and all the problems associated with level-based advancement, I do think that there are drawbacks to systems like Traveller:

It's more difficult to tell when characters in Traveller have hit "level 20."

There is indeed a point in Traveller where the characters have sufficient skills and sufficient levels in their skills that most skill challenges ... lack the challenge part of "skill challenge." In my experience, Traveller handles "characters in-play for a long time" worse than many other systems because of the small range of numbers inherent to a 2d6 system and the assumption inherent to Traveller that characters will tend not to have large numbers of skill, which works ... until they don't. Unlike games like D&D where character power is often measured in things like piles of magical items and so on, character power in Traveller are only partially defined by their ships, FGMPs, Ancient Artifacts, and similar items that can be taken away; the bigger bar of character power in Traveller is the number and level of skills they have.

My feeling is that your characters are about to "hit level 20." My only advice as a fellow GM is to talk it over with your players. It may be time to retire the characters, put in some sort of skill cap, or some other solution that you and your players come up with; an RPG is a game where everyone has to have fun; the GM has to have as much fun as the players. If you as the GM stop having fun because you no longer can find a way to challenge your players, they may enjoy skating through everything, but you won't.

 

[kilemall]

I'd say they hit a limit, INT + EDU is fine, beyond which they start dropping unused skills eventually to 0.

They can get back up and ride the bike, but they can't compete in the Tour de France like they used to, to stretch a metaphor.

Another simplifier I am considering, just 4 ground weapons skills-

Blade
Gun
Indirect Heavy Weapon
Direct Heavy Weapon

Then the player lists the specific systems in order of preferred usage/practice, they get full skill on the top one and -1 to each one after until everything else is 0 in that category.

 

[Sir Brad]

I'd say the Scout is around "Level 10-12" and about to skip right up to "Epic Level Play", the former military is around "Level 15" and about so skip to "Level 20", unfortunately their skills though wide are not as advanced as those of with a like skill rank tally.

 

[warwizard]

what do you do if characters with 2-3 MCr in the bank decide to go back to college to get an advanced degree or 2 or 3 or just start writing books about their adventures. Retire them or let the players handle them as patrons, still PC's but strictly hands off the adventuring and chances of getting snuffed. That way the loved characters can still make a difference 5 to 10 years (IRL) from now and the players will not see the character retirement as such a negative event.

 

[Sir Brad]

the Scout already has M.Sc. in Astronomy, upgraded from Honors Astronomy, is doing her Honors Year in Paleontology and doing Masters level classes in it already, a BA in literature (with minor in a few other humanities).

they already have Doctorates lined up in Paleontology and Astronomy (disatasional not P.H.D.)

The Military type has B.Sc. in Astronatuics (doing an Honors year), mutiple B.A. Languages, B.A. Psychology, M.A. Comparative Military Philosophy, B.Sc. Military Science. they also have diplomas in a few other Odds & Ends.

both have "My Kids will never have to work a day if they don't want to" money. the Scout is thinking of going back in to the service full time eventually, the military type is having an extended pre-mid-life crises and can't seem to put down roots.

 

[Leitz]

i am very much in the "what's the next story?" camp. There's no reason for artifical skill caps or early retirement if you can come up with a great story. Stories are about conflict, challenge, and growth. Sit down with your players over tea/coffee/beer/champagne and talk about what sorts of challenges all of you want to face. If you can't come up with those stories, then maybe it is time to retire the character. However, if you've been gaming that long I bet a short break would let you come up with ideas.

In atpollard's game my character gained a lot of ranks quickly, and led a military action with hundreds of "soldiers". He's now leading about 1300 troops, yet atpollard and I don't really want to make that the focus of the game. We're shuffling and directing troops, promoting, NPCs, and in general changing the game to be the story we both want to tell. My character is still the lead military commander so he's made a "level" or three. However, the game isn't about that. It's about saving a planet in crisis, keeping pretty girls safe, building relationships, and getting shot at. No particular order.

Since I as a player enjoy studying leadership, and my character has Leader-0, it's been interesting. The poor boy has put himself into some no-win situations, has made mistakes, and yet the NPCs have come through and they're making progress. The story hasn't been about my character as a leader as much as an instigator. He leads, but he's pretty transparent about his lack of skill. That works out because he wants to save the planet, not lead it. Other's are better leaders, he's just pushing them into doing so.

If all the skills my character now has were at the 2 level, vice mostly 0, he's be challenged by actively growing leaders to take his place. If his skills were 4 he'd be growing the leaders to grow the leaders. If his college was anything besides an incomplete AA in Theology, he'd be building an organization to link military and academic worlds to benefit both. If he had money he'd invest it in reclaiming lost infrastructure capabilities. There are lots of challenges in the story, that's what makes it fun.

 

[kilemall]

i am very much in the "what's the next story?" camp. There's no reason for artifical skill caps or early retirement if you can come up with a great story. Stories are about conflict, challenge, and growth. Sit down with your players over tea/coffee/beer/champagne and talk about what sorts of challenges all of you want to face. If you can't come up with those stories, then maybe it is time to retire the character. However, if you've been gaming that long I bet a short break would let you come up with ideas.

In atpollard's game my character gained a lot of ranks quickly, and led a military action with hundreds of "soldiers". He's now leading about 1300 troops, yet atpollard and I don't really want to make that the focus of the game. We're shuffling and directing troops, promoting, NPCs, and in general changing the game to be the story we both want to tell. My character is still the lead military commander so he's made a "level" or three. However, the game isn't about that. It's about saving a planet in crisis, keeping pretty girls safe, building relationships, and getting shot at. No particular order.

Since I as a player enjoy studying leadership, and my character has Leader-0, it's been interesting. The poor boy has put himself into some no-win situations, has made mistakes, and yet the NPCs have come through and they're making progress. The story hasn't been about my character as a leader as much as an instigator. He leads, but he's pretty transparent about his lack of skill. That works out because he wants to save the planet, not lead it. Other's are better leaders, he's just pushing them into doing so.

If all the skills my character now has were at the 2 level, vice mostly 0, he's be challenged by actively growing leaders to take his place. If his skills were 4 he'd be growing the leaders to grow the leaders. If his college was anything besides an incomplete AA in Theology, he'd be building an organization to link military and academic worlds to benefit both. If he had money he'd invest it in reclaiming lost infrastructure capabilities. There are lots of challenges in the story, that's what makes it fun.

Hmmm, that brings a subtle point many of us miss (and certainly players who want to be 'skill tanks').

Since no one person can 'do it all', the player AND the character is dependent upon persuading others, NPC or other players, to do what they want done.

The skill limits enforce teamwork.

It may be more important what skills the character lacks then what they have.

 

[Sir Brad]

If you look at the characters Skills, the Scout was clearly a Pilot from the Exploration Branch, able to run the ship on themselves if need be and help out on a number of exploration missions, a term and a half later they could lead a Exploration team, Servery team or work Intel & Operations for the Detached Duty branch.

the Military type started out as an expert Marine Analog with some Boat skills, a decade later game time they are a ground forces commando (Languages expert) and expert boat pilot with a couple of staff skills thrown in.

 

[Leitz]

I haven't seen the skills, sorry. Can you share a link? Is there a real concern, though? If the game isn't fun for you as DM, nothing wrong in that. Otherwise it's back to the story.

Old flames available? Maybe jilted lovers or spouses of jilted lovers? Has someone been sent to jail and now escaped? Has someone fingered the pair for an event they had nothing to do with? Even worse, has more good fortune come there way and now they have to figure out how to deal with it? A small ship loses to a big ship most of the time. A big ship requires crew, who are they?

What are the gaps in their skills? Are there stories to exploit there?

 

[Sir Brad]

they where

the Scout Pilot-2, Survey-2, SMG-1, Combat Rifleman -1, Engineering -1, Gunnery -1, JoT -1, Navigation -1, Robotics -1, Pisonics -1, Survival -1, Vacc-Suit -1, 0g Envrion/Combat -0, Admin -0, Air/Raft -0, Brawling-0, Bribery -0, Computer -0, Communications -0, Carousing -0, Electronics -0, Gambling -0, Gravitics -0, Handgun -0, Hunting-0, Liaison -0, Linguistics -0, Mechanic -0, Medical-0, Recon-0, Shotgun -0, Short Blades -0, Ship Tactics -0, Streetwise -0, Pistol-0.

the Solider
0g Combat-2, 0g Weapons-2, Vacc Suit-2, Combat Rifleman-2, Laser Weapons-1, Grenade Launcher-1, Gunnery-1, Psionics-1, Ships Boat-2, Computer-0, Eletronics-0, Grav Vehicle-0, Large Blade-1, Liaison-1, Melee Combat-1, Navigation-0, NV Commutations-1, Pilot-1, Prospecting-0, Short Blade-0, Streetwise-0, Tactics-1, Demolitions-1, Survival-1, Recon-1, Instruction-1, Psychology-0, Handgun-0, SMG-0, Medical-0. Lots of languages at high level of fluency.

since this topic started skills advances have started dropping, not as many as I feared but lots where almost there.

 

[Frankymole]

The idea of spending 10-16 hours per day in study on top of (even light) duties, has me reaching for the "Losing it" article on mental health which I think appeared in one of the DGP journals. Such obsession and denial of relaxation would mean other neuroses or psychoses might start to develop, even depression, in someone who chose an adventurous life after mustering out.

 

[Leitz]

Okay, so let's ponder for a moment. The characters seem very well equipped to handle a lot of things. They also seem to have enough smarts to either deduce (INT) or remember( EDU) well, giving them positive modifiers for mental skills. If you all have been playing for several years then you probably are running well and everyone is having fun.

Have you tried a multi-level root cause campaign? Let's say Professor Sorokos, one of the characters favorite instructors back at Miskatonic U, dies unexpectedly. The character is asked to attend because of their relationship, and the character is in the will. As an aside, the character is asked to carry a few things of sentimental value to another couple professors, in different directions but not really too far out of the character's way.

Sadly, that professor recently passed away. So did the other one. Circumstances seem almost normal, but coincidence is too strong. So, the characters can investigate. And they probably should, since one of their relatives/close friends may also be on the "scheduled to have an accident" list.

Start with a mystery where the characters don't know exactly where to look, but they do need to make decisions that put other things at risk.

Now, come in from another direction. A few reports have been coming in of some pirate raids by a ship 2-4 times larger than the PC's ship. Of note in the reports is that whoever is flying the pirate ship can just about make it turn on a dime and dance a jig; they are that good. The clues for the deaths may be in the same area as the pirate activity, but maybe not.

Now add the "your'e an outsider" factor. If you've ever moved or traveled a lot you know the feeling. You pretty much have to ask for everything specifically as you don't have any relationships in that area. Further, organizations don't treat you the same until you've been there a dozen or more years. Neither of the characters is a noble, but maybe they want to be? Especially since the folks who seem to be dieing were moving up in the social ladder. Is there some jealous blue blood who hates the middle class?

Next angle, there's an outbreak of some long eradicated disease in the Goram system. By the time the characters hear about it further the disease has started to spread, and there is some overlap between the pirate activity and the disease.

Remember the military characters crazy Aunt May? The one that ran off and joined a cult at age 16 and is now in her 50's? She's a popular entertainment vid mystic charlatan. Or she was, until some of her more dire and obscure predictions started coming true. Add the possibility of hokey religions.

Before this gets further, take some of the potential events and tie them to the PC's backgrounds. If they've been travelling for a decade or so then they probably have friends and enemies in abundance. Connect the PC's history to the impending future.

So far there's a challenge or two (someone with higher skills), a mystery or three (are any of these connencted?), a wide enough playing field that the characters can't be everywhere at the same time, a few social organizations (nobles, schools, corporations, pirates) that won't necessarily talk openly, and a time crunch (the deaths are spreading).

There is a root cause, maybe more than one. But put a few layers between the noticed events and the "root of all evil". Maybe the evil isn't that bad at all? Maybe it's a good thing just off kilter? There will be bad guys to shoot, but the final solution isn't resolved by combat. There will be space to explore but the risks are greater unless the characters are using a larger ship, which means other people, and other risks, are involved. Some of the risked is personal; friends and family of the characters. Making one choice may preclude making other choices.

Time is short, what do you do?

#######

Scout 6C9EC8 Age 36

Combat: Pistol-0, SMG-1, Combat Rifleman -1, Brawling-0, Handgun -0, Shotgun -0, Short Blades -0

Low Social: Streetwise -0, Gambling -0, Carousing -0, Bribery -0

Ship: Ship Tactics -0, Mechanic -0, Air/Raft -0, Computer -0, Communications -0, Electronics -0, Gravitics -0, Vacc-Suit -1, 0g Envrion/Combat -0, Pilot-2, Survey-2, Engineering -1, Gunnery -1, Navigation -1, Robotics -1

People: Liaison -0, Linguistics -0, Admin -0

Wilderness: Survival -1, Hunting-0, Recon-0

Misc: Medical-0, JoT -1, Psionics -1



Military 7A8EDA Age 33 (?)

Low Social: Streetwise-0

Wilderness: Prospecting-0, , Survival-1, Recon-1

People: Liaison-1, Instruction-1, Psychology-0, Lots of languages at high level of fluency.

Combat: 0g Combat-2, 0g Weapons-2, Combat Rifleman-2, Laser Weapons-1, Grenade Launcher-1, Handgun-0, SMG-0, Tactics-1, Demolitions-1, Short Blade-0, Melee Combat-1, Large Blade-1

Ship: Navigation-0, NV Commutations-1, Pilot-1, Ships Boat-2, Computer-0, Eletronics-0, Grav Vehicle-0, Vacc Suit-2, Gunnery-1

Misc: Psionics-1, Medical-0

 

[salochin999]

Personally I like a skill limit (highest and lowest stat) so once past it they choose which they lose

but also

simplify combat skills as their preferred weapon of a type and the rest are implicitly included at one skill less so Blade-2 implicitly includes (other melee weapons)-1 so they only need to train one

same with vehicles

searching for NPCs with needed skills becomes a thing

searching for ways to increase their stats becomes a thing