In my setting, these ships are streamlined "saucers" with the interplanetary engine under their "floor" but with interface engines on their "side" for horizontal atmospheric flights. Larger ships use dedicated interface craft.
CT Only: Hard Space
- Thread starter Golan2072
- Start date
Jason M Durkish
SOC-10
What do you think of having the corporate people in a little more positive light .
Such as they rebuild the world . and then government activists are trying to regain control of earth and nationalize corporate assets .
Such as they rebuild the world . and then government activists are trying to regain control of earth and nationalize corporate assets .
In this kind of setting, there is no pure good or pure evil. Just shades of grey.
The corporations are actually behind widespread space travel; and behind the fact that there are no longer large-scale wars (only brushfire wars and insurgencies), as governments no longer have the budget for larger wars and they are not profitable for the corporations. They are also the most functional large-scale institutions around, capable of actually doing things and initiating projects. They are also the ones responsible for most technological progress in this setting. However on the negative side competition is harsh and the bottom line must show maximum profits for the shareholders so you cut corners and sometimes do very shady things to gain an edge on the competitors.
Governments in this setting are pretty much powerless and pathetic; they lack the political power to significantly tax the corporations, and as the corporations control a major chunk of the economy, their revenue is very limited. They can do some policing and infrastructure work, and some interplanetary and interstellar "showing the flag" tours, and do hold relatively large - if equipped with obsolete gear - militaries, but they lack the political or economic power to even think of nationalizing corporate assets. And actually going to full-scale war will probably bankrupt even the relatively "powerful" ones.
The corporations are actually behind widespread space travel; and behind the fact that there are no longer large-scale wars (only brushfire wars and insurgencies), as governments no longer have the budget for larger wars and they are not profitable for the corporations. They are also the most functional large-scale institutions around, capable of actually doing things and initiating projects. They are also the ones responsible for most technological progress in this setting. However on the negative side competition is harsh and the bottom line must show maximum profits for the shareholders so you cut corners and sometimes do very shady things to gain an edge on the competitors.
Governments in this setting are pretty much powerless and pathetic; they lack the political power to significantly tax the corporations, and as the corporations control a major chunk of the economy, their revenue is very limited. They can do some policing and infrastructure work, and some interplanetary and interstellar "showing the flag" tours, and do hold relatively large - if equipped with obsolete gear - militaries, but they lack the political or economic power to even think of nationalizing corporate assets. And actually going to full-scale war will probably bankrupt even the relatively "powerful" ones.
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Jason M Durkish
SOC-10
This setting gave me a idea on how the CDP was created .
Sifu Blackirish
SOC-14 1K
Very impressive, Golan 2072! You have put into words many of the concepts that are the underlying assumptions in my Terran Sphere. Allow me to share a few highlights. Forgive the apparently incongruous items present, that is because the story I lifted it from is work in process...
Note: the initial five year Scout exploration mission began in 2089
(2182)
With relatively limited interstellar transportation capabilities, weeks of delay in transit time for any interstellar communications, and a downright insistence on independence that the Scouts retained, for the moment, things are chaotic at best. What with the rather formless Exodus, and now a wide open free trade zone for the Merchants, how can one plan for the future?
Terra and her core allies are still swimming in paper wealth. It is not as substantial as it was in the Exodus days, since a great deal of commercial activity is now conducted beyond their easy reach. Still the income is considerable, coming mostly from shipyard refurbishment and new construction, Merchant House port of registry fees and Scout information brokerage taxes.
Terra continues to push forward on G-space drive research. Multiple research labs deep in the asteroid belt do so, along with factories harvesting rich nickel-iron chunks. Terra and Tau Ceti still represent eighty percent of new ship construction. Some outlying merchants are constructing their own craft and flying flags of convenience, but they are particularly vulnerable to pirates.
There is not a lot to stay for. Polluted areas have been cleaned, lands reclaimed, O'Neills in nearby orbit supplying fresh food. Terra has almost become a gigantic park. Who lives in the park? Human labor is still available, at premium prices. With any group of potential malcontents able to sign on with a House, the military or freelance, and go offworld as laborers, mercenaries, scouts or scientists, there are very few idle bodies on Terra anymore.
Anything involving human activity demanded justification for the expense. At least on Terra, union membership and influence reigned supreme in a second Golden Age. Their power was considerable in the Core. Though spotty, it was present elsewhere in the Sphere. There were a few groups who kept their home offices on Terra and managed to expand to the stars.
Merchant hubs like Magellan Orbital saw firsthand the usefulness of a skilled group of craftsmen. Ironworkers, Teamsters and Operating Engineers proved useful on worlds with hostile environments. Also, there were Shipwrights, Boilermakers and the very famous Interstellar Brotherhood of Electrical Workers. They proved over and over again that their expense was a wise purchase, for with it came quality.
Note: the initial five year Scout exploration mission began in 2089
(2182)
With relatively limited interstellar transportation capabilities, weeks of delay in transit time for any interstellar communications, and a downright insistence on independence that the Scouts retained, for the moment, things are chaotic at best. What with the rather formless Exodus, and now a wide open free trade zone for the Merchants, how can one plan for the future?
Terra and her core allies are still swimming in paper wealth. It is not as substantial as it was in the Exodus days, since a great deal of commercial activity is now conducted beyond their easy reach. Still the income is considerable, coming mostly from shipyard refurbishment and new construction, Merchant House port of registry fees and Scout information brokerage taxes.
Terra continues to push forward on G-space drive research. Multiple research labs deep in the asteroid belt do so, along with factories harvesting rich nickel-iron chunks. Terra and Tau Ceti still represent eighty percent of new ship construction. Some outlying merchants are constructing their own craft and flying flags of convenience, but they are particularly vulnerable to pirates.
There is not a lot to stay for. Polluted areas have been cleaned, lands reclaimed, O'Neills in nearby orbit supplying fresh food. Terra has almost become a gigantic park. Who lives in the park? Human labor is still available, at premium prices. With any group of potential malcontents able to sign on with a House, the military or freelance, and go offworld as laborers, mercenaries, scouts or scientists, there are very few idle bodies on Terra anymore.
Anything involving human activity demanded justification for the expense. At least on Terra, union membership and influence reigned supreme in a second Golden Age. Their power was considerable in the Core. Though spotty, it was present elsewhere in the Sphere. There were a few groups who kept their home offices on Terra and managed to expand to the stars.
Merchant hubs like Magellan Orbital saw firsthand the usefulness of a skilled group of craftsmen. Ironworkers, Teamsters and Operating Engineers proved useful on worlds with hostile environments. Also, there were Shipwrights, Boilermakers and the very famous Interstellar Brotherhood of Electrical Workers. They proved over and over again that their expense was a wise purchase, for with it came quality.
My thought about worlds - in this kind of setting, Governments and even Law Levels are less important than in "standard" Traveller, especially in the official colonies - as typical corporate outposts and colonies with Earth governments' "Flags of Convenience" tend to have similar regimes, which rarely have sweeping powers (if at all) outside the small settled area, while inside the settled area they tend to be relatively restrictive. Unofficial colonies outside of the main frontier tend to be more chaotic, but rarely have the variance in government seen in "standard" Traveller universes. What is more important, socially speaking, is what Generation the colony is -i.e. established 1st Generation world, intermediate 2nd Generation colony or a new, barely-settled, barely-explored 3rd Generation colony; and whether or not it is an Outpost - a tiny base on an otherwise uninteresting and/or uninhabitable world used for transit and possibly exploration - or a fully-fledged colony. The presence of Visitation Zones and Research Stations is also highly important...
I thought about this and had... An epiphany.
This setting *will* have gravitics, though not necessarily reactionless drives.
However, both gravitics, jump-drives, and possibly psionics as well - are based on manipulation of poorly-understood alien artifacts recovered from the Visitation Zones. Human scientists know that manipulating certain artifacts in a certain manner produces a "jump bubble" or a localised gravitic field, but do not really know the principles behind this. This explains two important things in the setting:
1) Why are Stalkers paid large sums to bring back alien artifacts from the highly dangerous Visitation Zones? Becuase building J-Drives, and possibly M-Drives as well, requires such artifacts. Furthermore, research into better drive types and assorted gravitic artifacts requires such artifacts.
2) Why are J-Drives as unreliable and finicky as in CT-LBB2? Because they use poorly understood alien artifacts at their cores. These artifacts have negative interactions with strong planetary gravitic fields, and are very sensitive to things such as unrefined fuel, leading to misjump.
This setting *will* have gravitics, though not necessarily reactionless drives.
However, both gravitics, jump-drives, and possibly psionics as well - are based on manipulation of poorly-understood alien artifacts recovered from the Visitation Zones. Human scientists know that manipulating certain artifacts in a certain manner produces a "jump bubble" or a localised gravitic field, but do not really know the principles behind this. This explains two important things in the setting:
1) Why are Stalkers paid large sums to bring back alien artifacts from the highly dangerous Visitation Zones? Becuase building J-Drives, and possibly M-Drives as well, requires such artifacts. Furthermore, research into better drive types and assorted gravitic artifacts requires such artifacts.
2) Why are J-Drives as unreliable and finicky as in CT-LBB2? Because they use poorly understood alien artifacts at their cores. These artifacts have negative interactions with strong planetary gravitic fields, and are very sensitive to things such as unrefined fuel, leading to misjump.
Regarding aliens - the original intention was to have only one alien "presence" - the mysterious visitors, who have left the Zones behind them and probably disappeared. The Zones and their Artifacts might just be their "Junk" but incredibly dangerous and valuable to humans at the same time. This would make them a deadly (but profitable!) mystery and avoid trivialization of their technology.
But on the other hand, I was thinking about taking the OV route again and having a second alien species which would be more "comprehensible", though not fully so - to provide the alien shipwrecks/pyramids/catacombs which are staples of this genre of sci-fi cyberpunk noir (such as in Alien(s)). Dead aliens of course - Hard Space is not about interstellar politics involving aliens...
What do you think?
But on the other hand, I was thinking about taking the OV route again and having a second alien species which would be more "comprehensible", though not fully so - to provide the alien shipwrecks/pyramids/catacombs which are staples of this genre of sci-fi cyberpunk noir (such as in Alien(s)). Dead aliens of course - Hard Space is not about interstellar politics involving aliens...
What do you think?
I might be inclined to go Raptors in Space- it's initially assumed that the second race came from elsewhere and seeded the area, but really it's the other way round, Raptors evolved intelligence and moved out.
Raise the stakes, imagine a war the dinos had, and the state Venus, Earth, Mars and the asteroid belt are in are as a result of the war (for starters, the asteroid belt wasn't a belt originally).
The big dinosaur ending meteorite was the final shot of the war, which is why few Earth artifacts exist and of those most are misinterpreted or not found/under water.
Afterwards the Raptors dispersed and died out for the most part, perhaps they are out there away from Hard Space, perhaps there are one or two degenerated colonies that look like local animals to explorers- but mysteriously have Earth DNA.
Raise the stakes, imagine a war the dinos had, and the state Venus, Earth, Mars and the asteroid belt are in are as a result of the war (for starters, the asteroid belt wasn't a belt originally).
The big dinosaur ending meteorite was the final shot of the war, which is why few Earth artifacts exist and of those most are misinterpreted or not found/under water.
Afterwards the Raptors dispersed and died out for the most part, perhaps they are out there away from Hard Space, perhaps there are one or two degenerated colonies that look like local animals to explorers- but mysteriously have Earth DNA.
I like that idea very much*, but my problem with it is that 65 million years is a long time and very little will remain of this civilization due to natural erosion. I need someone who built catacombs, pyramids, shipwrecks etc for the characters to explore. A bit similar to the "Pilots" in Alien(s).
* In fact, I have used something similar in another setting - Visions of Empire, where an alien species now referred to as the "Gardners" has reached Terra around 65 million years ago. They did have a habit taking life-forms they liked and transplanting them to their various terraformed colonies, so they ended up distributing dinosaurs and insects from Terra to various worlds. They are also the reason for the (relatively) large number of human-habitable worlds due to terraformation as they had similar environmental requirements to humans. Now they are long gone and very little remains of them except for terraformed worlds, strange mineral deposits, and Terragen flora and fauna on alien planets.
* In fact, I have used something similar in another setting - Visions of Empire, where an alien species now referred to as the "Gardners" has reached Terra around 65 million years ago. They did have a habit taking life-forms they liked and transplanting them to their various terraformed colonies, so they ended up distributing dinosaurs and insects from Terra to various worlds. They are also the reason for the (relatively) large number of human-habitable worlds due to terraformation as they had similar environmental requirements to humans. Now they are long gone and very little remains of them except for terraformed worlds, strange mineral deposits, and Terragen flora and fauna on alien planets.
Thanks!
I like it.
Maybe the catacomb building aliens used Visitor tech, too.
They did not create it. They were not the Visitors. But the placement of their ruins makes it clear they were exploring Visitation Zones at some point.
They might have used STL coldships at an earlier stage of their civilization. Space hulks?
Anyway, the catacomb builders definitely found Visitor tech and used it for some period of time, going to different worlds.
And then...
Something happened to them. Human researchers have developed different theories, but nobody knows for sure.
Gone, except some Space Jockey type fossils, perhaps.
That's my suggestion.
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Oh, and have you read Hinterlands, by William Gibson?
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Other stuff:
What about "shareholders", "investors", or "proprietors" instead of "nobles"?
(I'm referring to SOC)
Same thing, in effect, but these are the corporate major shareholders, big capitalists, rentiers, and their families.
Are you using Citizens of the Imperium?
----
Other stuff:
What about "shareholders", "investors", or "proprietors" instead of "nobles"?
(I'm referring to SOC)
Same thing, in effect, but these are the corporate major shareholders, big capitalists, rentiers, and their families.
Are you using Citizens of the Imperium?
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Thanks!
Exactly. And possibly they used large arc-ships even when they had FTL. Large "tomb-ships" would be very interesting to explore.
Fossils, some long-eroded tech, structures, and some writings. Humans can translate some of them, but do not have yet a clear picture of their culture, history, or society. No one knows why they died.
And yes, the Space Jokey species are definitely an inspiration here.
Have not read yet, I might pick it up from the Book Repository on my next payday.
I am indeed using Citizens of the Imperium though I do consider switching the whole thing from CT to the Cepheus Engine - close enough and allows me to actually publish commercial stuff for this setting.
There is an "Elite" instead of Nobles - this can represent anything from big corporate shareholders to career politicians to celebrities, though the shareholders are of course the most powerful ones here by far. SOC measures the amounts of strings you can pull to get things done.
Thanks!
Outer Veil
I am late to this thread but I just wanted to chime in that Outer Veil is my favorite Traveller setting of all (even better than my own settings darn it!) It has just about everything one needs to make any of the types of game I enjoy (trading, exploration, megacorp shenanigans, political tension and separatism, bounty hunting/skip tracing, alien exploration - just no grand empires going toe to toe).
I only have two niggles with it, both minor:
1) I prefer reaction engines, no gravitics
2) I strongly prefer book 6 for system generation and all the non-shirtsleeve systems it creates. I feel it spreads civilization out, gives more latitude for dark empty spaces, and makes garden worlds truly something rare and special.
However, I understand that 99% plus of Travellers use gravitics in their games I can't fault a publisher for going that route. Likewise, given that Outer Veil's UWPs appear to be "interpreted", rather than purely random nonsense, I can't complain.
One of the things I love most about it is that using GURPS: Far Trader to map the trade routes really drives home the dependency of the frontier colonies on the core. Most frontier and OV worlds trade more with Earth than with their neighbors, which gives me a lot of flavor for starship traffic and opens seams for a trader type campaign in the colony to colony trade.
I am late to this thread but I just wanted to chime in that Outer Veil is my favorite Traveller setting of all (even better than my own settings darn it!) It has just about everything one needs to make any of the types of game I enjoy (trading, exploration, megacorp shenanigans, political tension and separatism, bounty hunting/skip tracing, alien exploration - just no grand empires going toe to toe).
I only have two niggles with it, both minor:
1) I prefer reaction engines, no gravitics
2) I strongly prefer book 6 for system generation and all the non-shirtsleeve systems it creates. I feel it spreads civilization out, gives more latitude for dark empty spaces, and makes garden worlds truly something rare and special.
However, I understand that 99% plus of Travellers use gravitics in their games I can't fault a publisher for going that route. Likewise, given that Outer Veil's UWPs appear to be "interpreted", rather than purely random nonsense, I can't complain.
One of the things I love most about it is that using GURPS: Far Trader to map the trade routes really drives home the dependency of the frontier colonies on the core. Most frontier and OV worlds trade more with Earth than with their neighbors, which gives me a lot of flavor for starship traffic and opens seams for a trader type campaign in the colony to colony trade.
