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HDL's - Holodynamic Linked

Here's a cool topic for speculation and discussion.

Twenty one years ago, DGP published the fabulous Starship Operator's Manual, a work that covers just about everything you'd ever want to know about a starship when gaming. In that book there much discussion on controls used to interface with a ship's computer system, from those used on the bridge, to those seen on bulkhead access valve, to those used in engineering and other parts of the ship.

The MT starship construction rules mention some of these controls by name only. There isn't much in the way of description. The SOP goes into much more detail about how these controls work, how they are interfaced with other systems, and arms the GM with so much more information to use when describing these neat far future gizmos to his players.

The two most common types of controls are dynamic linked and holodynamic linked.

Dynamic linked controls look like what you see in Star Trek: The Next Generation, and beyond. They're basically configurable flat panels, like windows on your computer screen that you can configure with your fingers. Different operators may prefer different layouts, so, as a the second shift Navigator comes on duty, all he needs to do is tap one of the controls on his panel, bringing up the stored configuration that he designed. People can even take their configurations with them, loading them onto new vessels (so that they are always using familiar controls), which is especially useful when operating a ship crewed by aliens. I imagine scouts, piloting X-Boats, do this sort of thing all the time.

The next step up the tech chain, though, presents a control unit that operates like a dynamic linked panel, but the controls are in 3D. This is a holodynamic linked control unit. If the operator likes having a ground-car style "driving wheel" interface, then his panel will create one. Maybe the next guy who sits down at that station prefers a mouse-style interface, not unlike the mice we use on our computers today. Well, this guy hits a switch to bring up his configuration, and the "driving wheel" dissolves and reforms into a "computer mouse".

It's a very neat concept--one that really gives the "feel" and "atmosphere" of things in the far future. I can see the GM describing this in a game: "Oh, you need to switch to manual attitude control in order to dock with the station's umbilical? You prefer a joystick set-up? No problem. You're operating a holodynamic linked panel. Three clicks, and you see the joystick form right in front of you."

That's cool gaming. That type of detail really adds to the game.



But...here's a question....

No where in the MT core rules or the SOP does it describe just how the holodynamic linked panels perform this feat of re-shaping physical objects (I'm not sure about FF&S...maybe there's something in there?).

There was a wonderful discussion about this, years ago, on the TML. IIRC, the prevailing thought was that the panels used gravitic technology, with tiny focussing units that manipulated some type of small particle to form 3D objects. One poster even speculated that the same type of particle used in the panels was the same stuff used in "sand" to block incoming laser fire (he argued that sand is moved between the ship and incoming laser fire by computer control gravitic focussers).



So, what do you think?

To my knowledge, there is no canon description (unless it came out in GT, T20, THero, MGT, or T5) on how the holodynamic link control unit does its thing.

What would be your explanation on how HDL units work?

How would you describe them to your players?

Speculation time!
 
I don't let it be joysticks, myself. Just tactile feedback contols. You could get your mouse, but not put your hand under it. It's all repulsors and holograms, IMTU.
 
It's not about physical objects, it's about how your hands move in space. Why does there need to be a wheel/stick/mouse present? We have V-R gloves at TL7.

You climb into your air raft, pull on your Driving Gloves (tm), and a wheel of just the right diameter appears between your hands, along with your favourite console layout, thanks to your gloves communicating with the onboard computer.
 
It's not about physical objects, it's about how your hands move in space. Why does there need to be a wheel/stick/mouse present? We have V-R gloves at TL7.

You climb into your air raft, pull on your Driving Gloves (tm), and a wheel of just the right diameter appears between your hands, along with your favourite console layout, thanks to your gloves communicating with the onboard computer.

That sounds reasonable.

T4's Central Supply Catalog offers the Business Ring at TTL11 which is just
a very short ranged RF comm and mini-storage. You shake hands with another person with a ring and it transfers data equal to a business card or such. Don't want it delete it.

I've always assumed however, that pilots need a set of controls to tell the fly-by-wire stuff what to do; so my air/rafts have steering wheels not unlike the old dragsters used to use.

Firefly/Serenity is a good example of "hands-on" piloting IMTU. But I had that in mind before I saw it. Star Wars did it too. Trek was massive spacecraft most of the time (compared to Traveller). I don't think in those
bridge shots of Vader's Star Destroyers they had guys on yokes/sticks.

Probably most ships 1000+ tons would follow the Trek/type on the computer panel logic.

>
 
Getting back to holograms...

Another RPG I use has a "Holographic Personal Computer" which is equal to
a massive server (in our TL) on your wrist. Display is via a hologram, which
I've interpreted (since they didn't spell it out) via sensors that either measure the position of your hand to the screen or you wear a ring of some type
and it can tell where in the projected field your hand is and which buttons
you push.

Display comes in the form of:

1. Wallet sized, eg equal to a modern day palm top.
2. Expandable to a CD-Rom case.
3. Expandable finally to a laptop.

(Someone posted a holographic personal computer on this BBS a while back
and the keyboard & display was perfect).

Likewise, once you get things that small that work, you can place them
in belt buckles or chest pins/mounts helmets whatever.

So people walk around with small holoscreens in front of them, tending to their duties, whether aboard a ship or not.

I've always assumed (with the above rig and wireless) that the ship's engineer can control most systems from a handcomp or wristcomp. Ship's are still likely to have terminals around for "heavy work", but also voice
interfaces are likely to be in service. At that point, screens become more for visual feedback rather than tapping...

>
 
It's not about physical objects, it's about how your hands move in space. Why does there need to be a wheel/stick/mouse present? We have V-R gloves at TL7.

It doesn't have to be a wheel/stick/mouse. It can be whatever the panel user desires.

If you read the SOM, though, they are indeed physical objects: (from the SOM, pg. 5) Holodynamic controls, a further extension of of dynamic controls, allow the operator to configure the controls as if they were actual three-dimensional objects.

What you say here:

You climb into your air raft, pull on your Driving Gloves (tm), and a wheel of just the right diameter appears between your hands, along with your favourite console layout, thanks to your gloves communicating with the onboard computer.

This could be squeezed into the dynamic linked controls definition. Although the DL controls focus on reconfigurable panels (as I described in the OP), the tech lends itself well to what you are describing, or even "floating light" holos like this shot and illo from Minority Report.

minority-report-ui.jpg


minority-report.jpg


According to the text in the SOM, that technology would be dynamic linked controls--not HDL.

HDL features a real, 3D object to manipulate (buttons, switches, levers, toggles, swing-balls, sticks, rockers, wheels, mice, etc.), but the object, whatever it is, is configurable based on the operator's desires.
 
If you read the SOM, though, they are indeed physical objects: (from the SOM, pg. 5) Holodynamic controls, a further extension of of dynamic controls, allow the operator to configure the controls as if they were actual three-dimensional objects.

I think you need to reread that.

"...configure the controls as if they were actual three-dimensional objects."

Does not to me say they are in fact actual three-dimensional objects. It says to me they are something other than actual three-dimensional objects.

It seems clear to me that the intent is they are holographic representations of three dimensional objects, which to be of any real use would imo need some kind of tactile feedback, probably (given Traveller's love affair with grav tech) is some kind of gravity manipulation on a fine scale in a limited area with limited force.
 
I think you need to reread that.

"...configure the controls as if they were actual three-dimensional objects."

Does not to me say they are in fact actual three-dimensional objects. It says to me they are something other than actual three-dimensional objects.

Yeah, I agree. It's a 3D object composed of...something. It's not light. It's not a hologram. It's something you can grip...a 3D object.

Going back to the OP, it's been specualted that the 3D object is composed of tiny particles held together by the use of small gravitic focussers.

Ever seen one of those neat nick-nacks you can pick up at specialty stores--the block with tiny pieces of magnatised metal that you can mold into any shape you wish?

That's kinda the idea.



I think the term "holo" in the name of the control might confuse people. We hear "holo" and we think "hologram", but "holo" means "whole", and "dynamic" means "effective force in motion." We're not necessarily talking about holograms here (unless there is some tech that can make light have a real 3D solid presence).
 
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S4,

They're virtual objects, not "replicated" ones(1), and the verbiage in SOM makes that rather clear. You can argue the semantics of the phrase "as if they were actual three-dimensional objects" all you want but it really only has one meaning.

I remember the TML thread too. The consensus opinion was on SOM's panels using virtual objects. The thread then went on to discuss how replicated objects could possibly be created and used.


Regards,
Bill

1 - I hate using Star Trek terms in Traveller. :(
 
Oh, I see what you're saying now :)

Yeah, something like that might work too, but it sounds "messy". What if the field fails? Suddenly you've got all this goo and/or tiny ball bearings (or whatever) on your hands, your lap, your console. Seeping into the console, scattering on the floor and/or in the air, getting all over your snacks and in your drink and your lungs...

:devil: ...and then the field resets and your HDL control is in your mouth :rofl:

Better all around I think, as it's so handwavy anyway, to just say it's focused gravity manipulation.
 
They're virtual objects...

That's incorrect. HDL's produce reconfigurable 3D objects.

It's not replicated either. Although it could be some "smart material" like T2, that can bend and flow and take on any form.

liquid_metal.jpg


term2.jpg


Imagine a panel of this stuff. It's a hard, flat panel until you activate it. Then, the panel grows and reshapes itself into any control you want.

If you want pedals, they form. If you want push buttons, they form. If you want a joy stick, it forms.

The next guy that sits down at your station slaps in his configuration, and all the controls reshape themselves into his preferences: The pedals pour back into the panel where slide buttons take their place. Push buttons become rockers. The joy stick becomes a dual airframe stick.





I remember the TML thread too. The consensus opinion was on SOM's panels using virtual objects.

I don't remember it that way, as I stated above, but my recollection on that topic is quite hazy. Gawd, that was back in the 90's sometime...97? 98? 99?





Yeah, something like that might work too, but it sounds "messy". What if the field fails? Suddenly you've got all this goo and/or tiny ball bearings (or whatever) on your hands, your lap, your console.

I'm sure there's backups and failsafe's for this.

And, who knows what the material is? That's why I started the thread--to speculate on what material actually make up these high-tech control units.

Is it liquid metal, as seen in Terminator 2+? Maybe it looks wet but feels dry? Is it tiny particles, smaller than the magnitized metal pieces from the specialty shop? Is it indeed, goo? Does the tech fake light into taking on mass so that it is dense and can be felt like a 3D object?

I think this is facinating to consider.
 
...I think the term "holo" in the name of the control might confuse people. We hear "holo" and we think "hologram", but "holo" means "whole", and "dynamic" means "effective force in motion." We're not necessarily talking about holograms here (unless there is some tech that can make light have a real 3D solid presence).

I'm pretty sure holo in this case is short for holographic. I think that was the style used for it throughout MT. So it means just what I think most people are thinking it means. A visual only representation of something in 3D.
 
They're virtual objects, not "replicated" ones(1), and the verbiage in SOM makes that rather clear. You can argue the semantics of the phrase "as if they were actual three-dimensional objects" all you want but it really only has one meaning.

I answered (and corrected) Whipsnade in my last post directly above this one, but for those of you who think HDL do not create reconfigurable 3D objects, I bring to you more "proof" by way of more description in the SOM.

Look at page 35. There, you will see an illo of the bridge of a Free Trader. Upon quick examination, it will seem that I am wrong in how I've been describing HDLs because the pic shows flat, Star Trek-like panels.

But, read the text to the left of the pic: The holodynamic consoles ar featureless, touch sensitive panels (this describes the what is shown in the picture, not all HDLs). These panels can be altered to display whatever the user wishes, even in three-dimensions complete with tactile feedback. Once configured, the setup can be saved and later recalled at a moment's notice.

Notice the part about "3D" and "tactile feedback".

HDLs can basically be configured to form any type of control interface the user wishes, from holograms, to flat panels, to physical objects like buttons, wheels, sticks, and throttle slides.
 
I'm pretty sure holo in this case is short for holographic. I think that was the style used for it throughout MT. So it means just what I think most people are thinking it means. A visual only representation of something in 3D.

Allow me to show you the "light", so to speak. :rofl:

As my post above reads, check out the description on page 35 of the SOM. "3D" objects with "tactile feedback".
 
And did you notice the part about "display" (as opposed to "create") and lack of any mention of "solid" in the tactile feedback? Even current transmitted to your nerves can evoke tactile feedback, as can air, or Traveller's ever present magical gravity manipulation. All without actual solids.
 
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... "3D" objects...

Nope, I don't see 3D objects in your quote, just display.

And as for the artist's interpretation, as nice as it is, we all know the fallacy of attributing reality to illustration :)

...besides, shouldn't a low tech free trader have the lower tech flat panel dynamic consoles* and not the snooty high tech whiz bang holodynamic consoles the IN gets to play with? ;)

* or even just the good old reliable physical sticks and buttons with back-lit inked labels and such :D
 
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S4,

They're virtual objects, not "replicated" ones(1), and the verbiage in SOM makes that rather clear. You can argue the semantics of the phrase "as if they were actual three-dimensional objects" all you want but it really only has one meaning.

I remember the TML thread too. The consensus opinion was on SOM's panels using virtual objects. The thread then went on to discuss how replicated objects could possibly be created and used.


Regards,
Bill

1 - I hate using Star Trek terms in Traveller. :(

Yes, to make something out of nothing sort of goes against Traveller's
staid course in terms of technology. Sure Traveller has some miracle-level
things to us, but not reconfigurable objects, otherwise, weapons and
such would really be something.

My ACR can grow a GL, and the suits out of Lost in Space the movie
where they grow and dissolve helmets in a few seconds. That's Miracle
Level, making something out of nothing.

GURPS does a good job of putting all that in perspective (at least for me).
Steve Jackson was a pretty big Traveller fan, and GURPS often meshes
nice with Traveller not just GURPS Traveller.


>
 
And did you notice the part about "display" (as opposed to "create") and lack of any mention of "solid" in the tactile feedback? Even current transmitted to your nerves can evoke tactile feedback, as can air, or Traveller's ever present magical gravity manipulation. All without actual solids.

Agreed on that.

But I think you are ignoring the sentence: These panels can be altered to display whatever the user wishes, even in three-dimensions complete with tactile feedback.

So, if I want the panel to form a steering wheel or a joystick, it will create a 3D object that I can touch and feel.



Now...

The question is: HOW does it do that?

Maybe the 3D object IS a hologram, and the touch/feel part is created using one of the methods you suggest above. To the user, it looks and feels like a joystick. But, it's not an actual joystick. It's visually created via the hologram emitter, but that doesn't account for the tactile response.

For the touch aspect of it, maybe, somehow, the air is made more dense around the hologram. Maybe anti-grav units are used to create force and pressure.

Strung all together, the thing looks and acts like a joystick, but is made up of light, compressed air, and graviton manipulation.

I think that's a pretty cool explanation for how HDLs work (I like it better than tiny particles contolled by gravitic focussers or smart liquid metal).

But, hey, this thread is about speculation on just how HDLs do work.

I'm sure that's not the only viable explanation.

Guess on...
 
Nope, I don't see 3D objects in your quote, just display.

Read the quote again. It's the second sentence. :eek:o:



And as for the artist's interpretation, as nice as it is, we all know the fallacy of attributing reality to illustration :)

Which is fine, because the pic doesn't show the HDLs "doing their thing". They're just flat panels, like we have today. It's the text that describes the 3D objects.
 
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When in doubt check the engineering manual :)

Per the MT Ref's Manual:

Controls:

"Holographic: Dynamically reconfigurable contoured 3D controls with tactile feedback. The operator may reconfigure the controls in a moment's notice to fit preference or operating style."

Note the term, Holographic, not Holodynamic, confirming the origin of the term as applying the visual not some other.

Granted the description could be easily misread as referring to something solid, but again, they are called Holographic for a reason. They are a trick of light, with some other trick to make them "feel" solid in the absence of anything solid.

IF the name were different, or the description specifically said they were some liquid metal or such then I could agree with your take. It isn't, it doesn't, I can't :) We may have to just agree to disagree if you aren't convinced.
 
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