HDL's - Holodynamic Linked

[rancke]

How about a ball instead of a joystick? Surely a ball-shaped "force field" would be much easier to generate than a joystick-shaped one, but I believe it'd be just as versatile.


Hans

 

[mbrinkhues]

Question: What is the benefit of having "virtual" joysticks/trackballs?

I can/do see the benefit of dynamic controls in the sense of:

+ Arranging readouts, input areas where your typing is displayed etc
+ Configuring what each button on a physical joystick etc. does
+ Having some stuff displayed in 3D (Courses, some ship status, enemy plot)
+ Not having a console in front of you that can explode(1)

But the joystick can be arranged on the chair itself in a "HOTAS" style arrangement.

(1) StarTrek danger display: One flying ensign = Dangerous, Two flying ensigns = Very dangerous, Flying main character = We're doomed

 

[Andrew Boulton]

First, I still don't see the operational difference between HDL and Holodeck. I'm trying to imagine a Turing Test: I'm in a room that appears to be a holodeck. How do I decide whether what I'm interacting with is 'HDL image + force field' or 'photonic matter'?

In a holodeck, you can pick up and drink a glass of water and it would feel real. With the HDL version, the glass would be soft and the "water" would just be an image.

 

[Supplement Four]

And 3D is good for a lot of things, but some things are better in 2D.

Exactly.

That's probably why the picture of the bridge on page 35 shows a flat panel. HDLs can produce 3D control that a pilot can interact with, but HDLs don't have to produce 3D controls...they can produce 2D controls too.

HDLs are the ultimate in Traveller control units. They're the creme of the crop. An operator can have any type of control he needs programmed into the panel.

So, if he wants to use a flat panel for 99% of his operations, then, for one specific purpose, touch a button and have a 3D dial appear that he can twist for some reason, he can do that.

And, maybe the next guy that sits down at the panel likes the exact same set-up, except his hands are bigger. This operator touches a control, and the buttons on the flat panel become bigger by a few units. The dial, when it appears, has a slighter larger circumfrence.

Having read through SOM it only mentions the "HDL's simulating controls" in one place (Page 5) and even that does not spell out that it can produce controls with haptic feedback

You didn't read close enough. Check out page 35 too. And, see the listing in the MT Ref's guide.

In a holodeck, you can pick up and drink a glass of water and it would feel real. With the HDL version, the glass would be soft and the "water" would just be an image.

This is correct. There's no reason to think HDLs will produce Star Trek holodeck stuff. The same goes for using the technology to grow a GL on an ACR, as mentioned up-thread.

Most likely (and I created this thread to discuss it), HDLs look like what we see in this picture...obviously holographic controls that can be manipulated by using our fingers.

Visual information can be displayed: maps and 3D visages of planets and things. But, also, buttons, switches, joysticks, wheels, track balls, slides, rocker buttons, levers, dials, throttles, and the like can be made with the tech....or even 2D flat panel stuff can be used as well. According to the SOM, it's all up to the operator.

 

[Supplement Four]

And in the case of piloting a ship - sorry, I want a physical controller that won't disappear if the power fluctuates.

That's probably why the picture in the SOM shows a real joystick sitting next to the HDL panel.

HDL units wouldn't be the only thing on a starship. You'd have an HDL panel, augmented by real controls.

But, let's say you don't like joysticks for piloting (or, maybe you're not human, and your claws won't grip the joystick properly). Simply disengage control from the real joystick to the HDL control you just configured.



We tend to think of Traveller in terms of humans, but remember that there are a lot of aliens out there, too. HDLs can accomodate a wide variety of alien features better than any other control unit sans those specifically built for a certain type of alien.

 

[Whipsnade]

It seems you don't object to Holodecks per se, but Photonic Matter, Bill. We would agree on that.

Icosahedron,

You're right, I do not object to holodecks or systems resembling holodecks.

What I object to are holodecks suddenly appearing in the TL16 maximum, Third Imperium, Official Traveller Universe. Make them TL17 or TL18 devices, make them something that will appear in the OTU's future, something people in the OTU are currently researching, but don't allow working holodecks in the OTU.

It's a continuity thing. I don't want to retcon them into the OTU. Holodecks are too big of an item, a technology that is too useful and would be used too much to suddenly say "Oh, they've been part of the OTU for thirty years we just forgot to tell you they were there."

DGP invented HDLs while holodecks were also being shown on TNG weekly. While DGP never quit their day jobs, I think it's pretty clear that, if HDL systems were simply "mini" holodecks, DGP would have told us about the holodecks.

That's why I've brought up Trek's photonic matter. HDLs work like holodecks in a lot of ways, but they don't use photonic matter. We can use that lack to plausibly say "Okay, you've HDLs over here, but it doesn't follow you have holodecks over there because they haven't developed something like photonic matter yet.


Regards,
Bill

 

[Icosahedron]

In a holodeck, you can pick up and drink a glass of water and it would feel real. With the HDL version, the glass would be soft and the "water" would just be an image.

But would it? This depends on the nature of the force field generated, which is what I think we're discussing. If the force can make you feel a glass, surely it can make the glass feel hard? Similarly, if the force can make your fingers feel a glass, why can't it make your tongue feel water?

I'm just trying to get a feel for the limits of this repulsor tech or whatever it is - what it can and cannot do.

Icosahedron,

You're right, I do not object to holodecks or systems resembling holodecks.

What I object to are holodecks suddenly appearing in the TL16 maximum, Third Imperium, Official Traveller Universe. Make them TL17 or TL18 devices, make them something that will appear in the OTU's future, something people in the OTU are currently researching, but don't allow working holodecks in the OTU.

Regards,
Bill

Yep, I agree with that. Personally I think grav-feedback HDL should be beyond Traveller tech too, but canon contradicts me - or S4's interpretation of canon does. I think I'm with Arthur on this one. Fortunately I can take refuge in MTU and wear gloves...