Height/Weight Formula

[kilemall]

Thought I would run this system past you all for functionality check.

I want to generate height and weight, and create all sorts, tall, short, average, thick, skinny, and also age/handle 'out of shape', using nothing more then the classic three physical characteristics.

My original purpose was to define logistics for feeding in case of extreme situations, in space or planetside adventure. But first I needed to get a weight to figure out what it would take to hydrate and keep up strength.

This is for humans. Obviously engineered/divergent humans or aliens would have different parameters.

There is a bit of logic to these formulas but it's more for creating a wide range of results as any sort of physiological exercise.


Weight Calc-

(STR x 12) - DEX - END = weight in kg.


Height Calc-

(STR x .1) + (DEX x .1) + (END x .1) = subtotal - (subtotal *.2) = height in meters

Height Calc is the value at characteristics generation at age 18, and remains even if higher personal development rolls are made during character development. It only drops during aging.


Aging Rolls-

Permanent aging decreases cause a recalc in weight as per the formula.

Height is recalculated as per the formula only when STR is lost from aging.

Surgical actions may also cause recalculations, with or without effects on primary characteristics. Such alterations should be noted on the character's records.


Obesity Effects-

High inactivity with a diet that exceeds activity levels can cause obesity and therefore changes in characteristics and weight.

For every month of sedentary/mismatched diet, roll randomly to determine which stat will take a hit.

The stat is noted as being temporarily reduced by 1 with all appropriate losses to DMs, and the weight multiplier for STR goes up 1.

This effect continues until the diet or activity levels are rebalanced.

A physical fitness/therapy program such as that defined in LBB2 can reverse the effects, 1 per month. A successful roll for avoiding distraction must be made, and all stats have to be recovered before the increased levels can be pursued.


Sedentary/Starvation Effects-

Inactivity and/or lack of food and water can reduce both characteristics and weight.

Inactivity but otherwise with food and water will cause a slow wasting away. Roll as per obesity above, but do not increase the weight multiplier.

Physical therapy will reverse as above.

Lack of food causes a loss of 1 point each per characteristic per 3 days.

Lack of water causes a loss of 1 point each per characteristic per day.

If both are lacking, the effects are cumulative.

At the point one characteristic reaches 0 as a result of no food and/or water, medical attention will be required to safely stabilize and restore. Previous to that, careful drinking and eating will restore 1 point each per characteristic per day.

 

[kilemall]

Example-

777

Height- 1.68 meters
Weight- 70 kg

378

Height- 1.44 meters
Weight- 21 kg

B89

Height- 2.24 meters
Weight- 115 kg

6AB

Height- 2.16 meters
Weight- 51 kg

 

[kilemall]

I should probably have INT and EDU effects with lack of food and water, but I'm not sure what those values should be.

 

[coliver988]

Honestly, I'd add a flux roll or something in there. People with identical strength, dex and endurance can have all sorts of body shapes and sizes. So a 1:1 correlation may fit the average but not all.

Also, as strength varies: I've been pushing weights for 25+ years. I'm stronger than when I started, but one of the missing parts of the aging roll is getting shorter ) So while I am stronger I am also maybe 1/4" shorter than I was back in the day. Stupid aging rolls - they keep getting harder!

And finally, bone density, fat, a bunch of other factors come into play. And there are now recent articles about calories all being wrong - different people utilize calories entirely differently.

I'd just use an average based on the person count for food requirements. Even now they still don't understand nutrition for different people.

 

[kilemall]

On calorie and other metabolism science- my guess is that we are adaptable over X years (maybe as short as a few generations) to specific diets, biomes and environments and so adapt the 'default settings' at birth to optimize for the expected conditions.

Since we genetically mix people from different biomes freely thanks to our ability to travel, a lot of those adaptations are likely mixing and muddling in odd ways that will be tougher to sort out until geneticists AND dietitians/digestive specialists get a handle on the variables.

I was working off of the characteristic most likely to define height change (the skeletal system, which is tied both to muscle and cardiovascular). The objective here is to operate off the extant stats/aging and not track a separate aging roll.

Hmm, maybe .05 meters off every characteristic reduction?

I don't want to flux or otherwise monkey, plenty of randomness already in the characteristic rolls themselves. At that point might as well roll 5d6 *.1 = meters tall.

 

[McPerth]

Several points:

• gender and race should be featured in this formulas (e.g. the Darrian are described as being slender, due to efficient metabolism).
• I've never believed about this relation among stats and height/weight
• how is treated stats increase in Chargen? do they grow (as stats increase and so does heigh) at 26-34 years (or more)?
• would that mean that each player should have a vacc suit (to give you an example) adapted to him?

Now let's take a look to the examples.

777

Height- 1.68 meters
Weight- 70 kg

This is (by stats) the average human. In Traveller the average human is defined to be (IIRC) about 1.80 and about 80-100 kg of mass...

378

Height- 1.44 meters
Weight- 21 kg

This means a nearly dwarf person with a BMI (Body mass index) of about 10. Anything under BMI 18 is considered unheltly thin, and yet it has an END of 9, so meaning a healthy person...

B89

Height- 2.24 meters
Weight- 115 kg

Quite tall a person . He/she must be careful when crossong doors, and would probably not fit in a low berth (to give a simple example of the problems this could have). And see that while stats are high, but quite far human maximums. Good BMI this time (about 23). Slender but not thin.

6AB

Height- 2.16 meters
Weight- 51 kg

Again quite a tall person, same applies as before about heigh (to a leser extent). BMI about 11. Again quite unhealthy for someone with so high an END.

 

[coliver988]

And all this rapidly becomes a rabbit hole and a different version of accountants in space...

There are simply too many variables that the basic characteristics don't cover to be able to make anything resembling a formula to calculate height and weight (heck, even current animal clones are not the same size and coloration even though they have identical or very near identical DNA).

Home planet gravity, bone density, normative diets, atmosphere, temperatures.

What is your end goal for this? To me that determines how to go about this. If just chrome for players, I've always let them decide those physical characteristics. If determining rations under tight circumstances (which seems to be where this is coming from) even height & weight are not the complete picture when it comes to caloric needs.

 

[kilemall]

As stated, goals are caloric/water needs under duress/expeditionary logistics and descriptive fluff.

Caloric and water would be base needs multiplied by activity levels and environmental effects.

I don't know that endurance defines healthy per se, to me it is partially metabolism and energy but also disease resistance.

I would in general expect higher END specimens to be leaner as they are more efficient in processing intake into energy, but is a high END eskimo with body fat in 'poor health' or fit for his environment?

I went with DEX and END subtracting kgs, the idea that dexterity often goes with lithesomeness along with higher metabolism. That may be 'wrong', I am going for a certain feel and randomness. I could double END for weight negative in the formula if that is more appropriate.

I shied away from sexual dimorphism in deference to the original system's take on that. I certainly worked out values for it but have not felt it necessary for the main checks this thread is about.

For Darrians or other alterations per race to weight, simply alter the base weight multiplier. That could work for home planet issues re: G and environment. I already have spacer mods IMTU that makes them weaker but more dexterous.

I would think matching vacc suits to size would be just as de rigueur as tailoring clothing or a uniform.

Could be a hell of a bummer too if you can't find one to fit, if in too big or small perhaps mods to tasks should occur, and might make players much more interested in having their own as standard kit.

Re: Chargen changes post-18, I've already covered this in the initial proposed rules-weight changes with stats, height does not.

 

[CosmicGamer]

378

Height- 1.44 meters
Weight- 21 kg

This means a nearly dwarf person with a BMI (Body mass index) of about 10. Anything under BMI 18 is considered unheltly thin, and yet it has an END of 9, so meaning a healthy person...

Most things will break down as you approach the extremes.
3CC
Weight 12kg
about the average two year olds weight
but they are a giant at 2.16 meters (over 7 feet) tall

2CC
Weight 0kg
Maybe this implied the ability to levitate?

As McPerth noted, height is a bit off the scale. A person a little above average, at the very bottom of the +1 DM range at 999. Based on odds of rolling all 9s or better, 2 out of every 100 people would be over 2.16 meters/ 7ft tall (and at 999 weighs just 90kg/198 lbs).

CCC may be a bit extreme with one in 50,000 people being over 9 feet tall! So lets take a lowly AAA. Odds would make that about 40,000 people in London being 2.4 meters/7ft 10.5" or taller.

On the low side, just into the -1DM, at 555 a person is pretty hefty 110 lbs because they are under 4 feet tall.

Overall, I think the calculations have too much variance.
Going to just the low end of average, 666, I get 1.44 meters/under 4'9".

My comment about DMs makes me think, maybe use a calculation based on the characteristics DM instead of it's base value for tighter control of the range?

NOTE: someone better test my calculations.

 

[Nathan Brazil]

Some helpful suggestions. I hope
Traveller20 has height and weight rolls for several sophonts.

It is possible to modifiy the T5.09 rules for average species mass. You could determine a correlation of individual's stat to the dice (is a STR 8 like 2.167 dice? for example) to the formula there to determine the mass of a specific individual....

 

[kilemall]

Most things will break down as you approach the extremes.
3CC
Weight 12kg
about the average two year olds weight
but they are a giant at 2.16 meters (over 7 feet) tall

2CC
Weight 0kg
Maybe this implied the ability to levitate?

No, that critique is fair.

I knew I was in trouble when I tried 111 for a baby and got 10 kg- 0 meters.

As McPerth noted, height is a bit off the scale. A person a little above average, at the very bottom of the +1 DM range at 999. Based on odds of rolling all 9s or better, 2 out of every 100 people would be over 2.16 meters/ 7ft tall (and at 999 weighs just 90kg/198 lbs).

CCC may be a bit extreme with one in 50,000 people being over 9 feet tall! So lets take a lowly AAA. Odds would make that about 40,000 people in London being 2.4 meters/7ft 10.5" or taller.

Well, I could argue that due to 1000s of years of superior diet people in the far future are just bigger. Not to mention space effects and the like. That's why I wasn't that concerned with hitting current-day norms, because even that changes.

http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20150513-will-humans-keep-getting-taller

Overall, I think the calculations have too much variance.
Going to just the low end of average, 666, I get 1.44 meters/under 4'9".

My comment about DMs makes me think, maybe use a calculation based on the characteristics DM instead of it's base value for tighter control of the range?

NOTE: someone better test my calculations.

Eh, while I may have too high a range of variance (although I would argue you want that given all the weird environments people will come from), I think +2 to -2 type ranges are too small.

I'm more inclined to tweak the current formulas.

Or go wild- and figure in the home UWP.

Woohoo! New frontiers in amateur physiology!

 

[kilemall]

MMkay, let's try this set of formulas-

[FONT=arial,helvetica]Weight Calc-

(STR x 10) + (DEX x 2) - (END x 2) = weight in kg.


Height Calc-

.4 + (STR + DEX x .1 ) = height in meters, minus .4 if the result is 2.4 or above.
[/FONT]

 

[kilemall]

[FONT=arial,helvetica]Using previous case studies-

111
10kg
.6m

777
70kg
1.8 m

378
38kg.
1.4 m

B89
116 kg.
2.1 m

6AB
59 kg.
2 m

3CC
30 kg
1.9 m

2CC
20kg
1.8m
[/FONT]

 

[McPerth]

MMkay, let's try this set of formulas-

[FONT=arial,helvetica]Weight Calc-

(STR x 11) + DEX - (END*2) = weight in kg.


Height Calc-

.4 + (STR + DEX x .1 ) = height in meters
[/FONT]

So, the typical 777 character will weight 77+7-49, so 35 kg, and be about (assuming formula is really STR +DEX)X0.1) 1.8 m...

Again, quite thin...

 

[McPerth]

777
70kg
1.8 m

How do you reach those 70 kg?

As said, my numbers gave me 35...

 

[kilemall]

So, the typical 777 character will weight 77+7-49, so 35 kg, and be about (assuming formula is really STR +DEX)X0.1) 1.8 m...

Again, quite thin...

Too damn fast, I already altered the formula.

Dont know how you are getting that result though.

Oh, interpreting *2 as power of 2. No, that's a character that is often used for x and I didn't maintain consistent notation. Lemme fix and you retry.

 

[McPerth]

Too damn fast, I already altered the formula.

Dont know how you are getting that result though.

Oh, interpreting *2 as power of 2. No, that's a character that is often used for x and I didn't maintain consistent notation. Lemme fix and you retry.

I saw you *2 as ^2. Iguess my sight is not what it once was...

(at which age begin aging rolls for sight?)

 

[kilemall]

I saw you *2 as ^2. Iguess my sight is not what it once was...

(at which age begin aging rolls for sight?)

Working out height/weight is tough enough, don't think I want to go there.

Oh hell you're making me think it through. Probably tie it to Dex.

 

[Nathan Brazil]

I saw you *2 as ^2. Iguess my sight is not what it once was...

(at which age begin aging rolls for sight?)

Depending on the rulesystem and options:
GURPS already has this as a character point option to give the character more goodies
2300AD and for Mongoose and the Chtonian Stars campaign do this as well.

T5.09
As an Option, you COULD modify your character's Vision Racial Template to reflect this. Depends on the level of simulation you wish. It is a more difficult subject to model out.

for myself In Real Life
I was born with a severe myopic astigmatism in my left eye requiring glasses. At 16 and 24, I received surgery to my right eye to reattach my retina, incurring a 2% loss of vision AFTER the surgery. At age 45, I received my first set of bifocals. I am 51 years old now.

My astigmatism, retinal detachment and bifocals, do they incur a 1 or 2 point penalty to perception rolls?

 

[McPerth]

Oh hell you're making me think it through. Probably tie it to Dex.

If so, glasses should count as bionic "detachable implant" that recovers your dex when on :devil:...