Originally posted by Scott Martin:
I'll have to disagree with you on your bay interpretation though: if they meant that you weren't allowed to put a bay weapon in a sub-1,000 Ton vessel, then an example of a sub-1,000T vessel should have been in order.
Scott,
That's nothing more than overly legal wriggling. and it deliberately flouts the spirit of the rule in question. Sub-1000dTon are
implicitly illegal in
HG2 and arguing the fact that they are legal because they weren't
explicitly mentioned is disengenuous to say the very least.
The example of how to correctly apply the rule is there and the fact that GDW didn't realize they needed to 'lawyer-proof' the rules by giving
negative examples is to their credit. The GDW staff was first and foremost wargamers. They wrote their rules with a wargamers mindset, a mindset in which the label 'rules lawyer' is an insult and not the badge of honor many mix/max RPG munchkins seem to think it is.
Case in point: Years ago I attended a wargame convention with several events featuring
Avalon Hill designs. One of the games was
Midway. Carrier air units in the game had a certain range; 14 boxes, which naturally limited how far they could fly in an attack. Another rule in the game allowed carriers to land and arm air units that were not their own just as long as the carrier's carrying capacity was not violated.
For years, players had followed the
spirit of those rules. Carriers did recover air units that weren't their own due to air unit losses and carrier sinkings, just like in the real world the game was modeling.
Then a min/max munchkin got a brilliant idea.
The US carriers in the game all had the same carrying capacity rating; so many fighters, so many bombers, etc. Instead of launching a strike from
Enterprise out 7 boxes, attacking, and returning 7 boxes, you could fly the
Enterprise strike out 4 boxes, attack, and return 10 boxes to
Yorktown. The
Yorktown air units would then fly out 10, attack, and return 4 to
Enterprise.
It was a neat trick according to the 'genius' who sprung it. It wasn't
explicitly forbidden in the rules either. The fact that it flouted the spirit of the rules was of naturally of no consequence to him.
The organizers of the event and the convention; including members of the
AH staff, felt differently. The 'genius' was given a choice; either replay the game without his 'trick' or the event would be cancelled.
Like the 'carrier hopping' trick, sub-1000dTon bays violate the spirit and intent of the
HG2 rules.
No examples anywhere of fractions of 1,000T, no examples of fractions of 100T. 20/20 hindsight is a wonderful thing, but the fact that they *didn't* provide this example means that there is a grey area.
No. It only means they couldn't imagine someone would twist the rules in that manner and then defend themselves by claiming a
negative example is required to
explicitly forbid something that is already
implied.
Obviously I'm taking the point of view that this grey area is deliberate.
That's plainly obvious. You're a rules lawyer and not a wargamer.
It is, however fun to debate those "old" rules, and TCS remains one of the most-played games of my youth.
There is no 'debate' here. You freely admit you're exploiting a loophole created by overly legal wriggling along with deliberately ignoring an actual example and ignoring the implied thrust of the rules.
As for playing
TCS, if your fleets included designs using sub-1000dTon bays, you didn't play
TCS; you misplayed it instead.
YM obviously Vs.
Bill