HG2 Combat Pilot/Ship's Boat optional DMs

[snrdg082102]

Hello again all,

HG2 page 44 lists 4 character skills that are optional rules that apply die modifiers in combat.

The use of Fleet Tactics is described in the Initiative Step. I've asked about Ships Tactics in a separate post, which leaves applying pilot or ship's boat skills.

Would the DM for Pilot or Ship's Boat pilot skill be applied as part of determining Initiative and/or Pre-Combat Decisions acceleration agility and emergency acceleration agility?

 

[Vladika]

Ship's Boat would not apply to initiative rolls and small-craft are never counted for initiative purposes.

 

[McPerth]

IIRC in both cases (as appropiate) they are added to Agility (and so subtracted from to hit rolls) in the sme way as ship's tactics is to computer number (that is (skill-1)/2, dounded down).

 

[Vladika]

CONSOLIDATED CT ERRATA, v0.7 (06/01/12)

HIGH GUARD (308, Book 5, 1980 ―second‖ edition)

Page 39, Initiative Determination Step (clarification and addition): The rules say to use 2D unless otherwise specified; however, 1D is better for the initiative roll step in combat. Only count vessels 100 tons or greater for determining fleet size for initiative. Fighters and ship‘s boats are small craft and are not counted when determining initiative DMs.

Emphasis mine but it seems clear that small craft are not to be used to determine initiative.

I would assume though that in a strictly small craft vs small craft engagement that it could, and probably should, be used.

 

[snrdg082102]

Hello Vladika,

Ship's Boat would not apply to initiative rolls and small-craft are never counted for initiative purposes.

Yep, you're right that ship's boat piloting skill doesn't apply when talking about combat using hulls >= 100 tons, but would if one uses the combat rules for small craft too then I would think this would apply.

Of course what I typed didn't clearly state that I was thinking about using the combat sequence for all ship sized combat. Sorry for the lack of detail.

 

[Vladika]

Hello Vladika,



Yep, you're right that ship's boat piloting skill doesn't apply when talking about combat using hulls >= 100 tons, but would if one uses the combat rules for small craft too then I would think this would apply.

Of course what I typed didn't clearly state that I was thinking about using the combat sequence for all ship sized combat. Sorry for the lack of detail.

No problem. A thread is a hard way to achieve nuance and with no facial expressions and body language much suffers.

 

[snrdg082102]

Hello McPerth,

Thanks for the reply,

IIRC in both cases (as appropriate) they are added to Agility (and so subtracted from to hit rolls) in the sme way as ship's tactics is to computer number (that is (skill-1)/2, dounded down).

That is what I was thinking to be the case, but I'm trying to make sure that I use the optional individual skill die modifiers correctly.

In order to test my understanding I've set up a simple spreadsheet where I plug in the numbers and see the results from each step.

Actually I'm working on two spreadsheets, the first is a scratch sheet where I manually plug in the data for the step and in the other one I'm trying to fit the steps together. Of course neither is, in my estimation, working well enough to share. To be honest the automated is really clunky since I'm not using anything but the basic features.

 

[RockyMountainNavy]

IM(HG)TU rules

I have looked at using more skills and this is what I came up with. Not canon but food for your thought. Not mentioned below, but I usually restrict each character to one "action" per round, meaning the captain or engineer has to chose the best time to make use of their skill.

Skills in High Guard – Alternate System

Skills. The skills of player characters, if sufficiently higher than average, may have a noticeable effect on the battle. The average skill level of a non-player character in their assigned job (and hence the background level of the combat system) is assumed to be two. Higher skill levels can be useful in certain cases:

Battle Formation Step: The Fleet Commander with the higher Fleet Tactics skill places his ships in Battle Formation second. If both players have the same Fleet Tactics skill then both form their fleet simultaneously
Initiative Determination Step: The Fleet Tactics skill level of the Fleet Commander is a + modifier to the initiative die roll

Pre-Combat Decision Step: The skill level of a ship’s Maneuvering Drive Engineer may affects its Emergency Agility; subtract one from the Engineering skill level of the ship’s Maneuvering Drive Engineer, divide by two, and drop the fraction; the result is used as a + modifier to the ship’s effective agility

Combat Step: Skills that may affect combat are:
Ship’s Tactics – The skill level of a ship’s (or small craft/fighter’s) captain affects its performance; subtract one from the Ship’s Tactics skill level of the captain and divide by two, dropping fractions; the result is used as a + modifier to the ship’s effective computer level (a computer Model/5 is treated as a Model/6); the computer must be working at least at level 1 for this modifier to apply
Pilot/Ship’s Boat – The skill level of the ship’s/craft’s/fighter’s command pilot affects its maneuver; subtract one from the Pilot/Ship’s Boat skill level of the command pilot and divide by two, dropping fractions; the result is used as a + modifier to the ship’s/craft’s/fighter’s effective agility; the agility must be at least one for this modifier to apply
Engineering – The skill level of the ship’s Power Plant Engineer may affect its performance; subtract one from the Engineering skill level of the ship’s Chief Power Plant Engineer and divide by two, dropping fractions; the result is used as a + modifier to the ship’s effective agility; the agility must be at least one for this modifier to apply
Gunnery – The skill level of a battery’s Chief Gunner may affect its performance; for offensive weapons subtract one from the Gunnery skill level of the Battery Chief Gunner and divide by two, dropping fractions; the result is used as both a + DM Allowed To Hit and a – modifier for the Ship Damage Tables; for weapons used defensively (sandcasters, missiles or beams, and screens) the result is used as a + modifier to the effective USP - with a maximum USP 9 – of the defending battery when the firing unit determines penetration

Pursuit Step:
Pilot/Ship’s Boat - The skill level of the command pilot affects it agility in the same manner as in the Combat Step
Engineering - The skill level of a PURSUING ship’s Maneuvering Drive Engineer may affects its agility; subtract one from the Engineering skill level of the ship’s Maneuvering Drive Engineer, divide by two, and drop the fraction; the result is used as a + modifier to the ship’s effective agility (Note that the Engineering skill for ESCAPING ships is affected in the Pre-Combat Decision Step)
Navigation – The skill level of the Chief Navigator may also affect the ship’s escape – subtract one from the Navigation skill of the Chief Navigator and divide by two, dropping fractions; the result is used as a + modifier to the ship’s effective agility; the agility must be at least one for this modifier to apply

Terminal Step: Several skills are applicable to actions taken during the Terminal Step:
Tactics – Used by Ship’s Troops or Marines during Boarding Action Resolution; subtract one from the Tactics skill level of the Ship’s Troops/Marine Commander, divide by two, dropping fractions; the result is used as a + modifier for the Boarding Action Resolution roll; at least one section of boarders (5 Marines/10 Ship’s Troops/50 Crew) must be used in the boarding action for this modifier to apply
Medical – The skill level of the ship’s Chief Medical Officer can be used to restore crew casualties (including Ship’s Troops or Marines); subtract one from the Medical skill of the Chief Medical Officer, divide by two, dropping fractions; the result is the number of crew sections (or 5 Marines/10 Ship’s Troops) returned to duty after four turns; this action may used twice in battle – once to restore a crew section and once to restore 5 Marines/10 Ship’s Troops
Engineering – The skill level of the Chief Engineer can affect Damage Control and Repair; for each repair attempt subtract one from the Engineering skill level of the Chief Engineer, divide by two, dropping fractions; the result is a + modifier on the repair attempt

 

[snrdg082102]

Thanks Vladika,

CONSOLIDATED CT ERRATA, v0.7 (06/01/12)

HIGH GUARD (308, Book 5, 1980 ―second‖ edition)

Page 39, Initiative Determination Step (clarification and addition): The rules say to use 2D unless otherwise specified; however, 1D is better for the initiative roll step in combat. Only count vessels 100 tons or greater for determining fleet size for initiative. Fighters and ship‘s boats are small craft and are not counted when determining initiative DMs.

Emphasis mine but it seems clear that small craft are not to be used to determine initiative.

I would assume though that in a strictly small craft vs small craft engagement that it could, and probably should, be used.

My apologies for not explaining myself better, of course all the material that could have been provided was in my head and my thought projection isn't working.

Pilot Skill is just not for small craft or those hulls < 100 tons. HG page 32 states "If the ship is 1,000 tons or under, then the rules in Book 2 should be followed."

If my fleets have ships >= 100 tons and < = 1,000 tons the Pilot Skill can be used to decide Initiative.

I also keep forgetting that Book 5 subsumed Pilots somewhere for hulls > 1,000 tons and that the optional Pilot Allowance rule presented in Adventure 5 Trillion Credit Squadron, page 10, doesn't appear to be used by anyone, with me being the only exception.

 

[snrdg082102]

No problem. A thread is a hard way to achieve nuance and with no facial expressions and body language much suffers.

Thanks for keeping me as honest since I'm a retired submarine sailor.

 

[snrdg082102]

Howdy RockyMountainNavy,

Thank you for dropping by, sharing the expanded combat system, and for the nuclear-bomb pumped pulse laser missile. Donald McKinney shared the link either on COTI or ct-starships.

I have looked at using more skills and this is what I came up with. Not canon but food for your thought. Not mentioned below, but I usually restrict each character to one "action" per round, meaning the captain or engineer has to chose the best time to make use of their skill.

Skills in High Guard – Alternate System

Skills. The skills of player characters, if sufficiently higher than average, may have a noticeable effect on the battle. The average skill level of a non-player character in their assigned job (and hence the background level of the combat system) is assumed to be two. Higher skill levels can be useful in certain cases:

Battle Formation Step: The Fleet Commander with the higher Fleet Tactics skill places his ships in Battle Formation second. If both players have the same Fleet Tactics skill then both form their fleet simultaneously
Initiative Determination Step: The Fleet Tactics skill level of the Fleet Commander is a + modifier to the initiative die roll

Pre-Combat Decision Step: The skill level of a ship’s Maneuvering Drive Engineer may affects its Emergency Agility; subtract one from the Engineering skill level of the ship’s Maneuvering Drive Engineer, divide by two, and drop the fraction; the result is used as a + modifier to the ship’s effective agility

Combat Step: Skills that may affect combat are:
Ship’s Tactics – The skill level of a ship’s (or small craft/fighter’s) captain affects its performance; subtract one from the Ship’s Tactics skill level of the captain and divide by two, dropping fractions; the result is used as a + modifier to the ship’s effective computer level (a computer Model/5 is treated as a Model/6); the computer must be working at least at level 1 for this modifier to apply
Pilot/Ship’s Boat – The skill level of the ship’s/craft’s/fighter’s command pilot affects its maneuver; subtract one from the Pilot/Ship’s Boat skill level of the command pilot and divide by two, dropping fractions; the result is used as a + modifier to the ship’s/craft’s/fighter’s effective agility; the agility must be at least one for this modifier to apply
Engineering – The skill level of the ship’s Power Plant Engineer may affect its performance; subtract one from the Engineering skill level of the ship’s Chief Power Plant Engineer and divide by two, dropping fractions; the result is used as a + modifier to the ship’s effective agility; the agility must be at least one for this modifier to apply
Gunnery – The skill level of a battery’s Chief Gunner may affect its performance; for offensive weapons subtract one from the Gunnery skill level of the Battery Chief Gunner and divide by two, dropping fractions; the result is used as both a + DM Allowed To Hit and a – modifier for the Ship Damage Tables; for weapons used defensively (sandcasters, missiles or beams, and screens) the result is used as a + modifier to the effective USP - with a maximum USP 9 – of the defending battery when the firing unit determines penetration

Pursuit Step:
Pilot/Ship’s Boat - The skill level of the command pilot affects it agility in the same manner as in the Combat Step
Engineering - The skill level of a PURSUING ship’s Maneuvering Drive Engineer may affects its agility; subtract one from the Engineering skill level of the ship’s Maneuvering Drive Engineer, divide by two, and drop the fraction; the result is used as a + modifier to the ship’s effective agility (Note that the Engineering skill for ESCAPING ships is affected in the Pre-Combat Decision Step)
Navigation – The skill level of the Chief Navigator may also affect the ship’s escape – subtract one from the Navigation skill of the Chief Navigator and divide by two, dropping fractions; the result is used as a + modifier to the ship’s effective agility; the agility must be at least one for this modifier to apply

Terminal Step: Several skills are applicable to actions taken during the Terminal Step:
Tactics – Used by Ship’s Troops or Marines during Boarding Action Resolution; subtract one from the Tactics skill level of the Ship’s Troops/Marine Commander, divide by two, dropping fractions; the result is used as a + modifier for the Boarding Action Resolution roll; at least one section of boarders (5 Marines/10 Ship’s Troops/50 Crew) must be used in the boarding action for this modifier to apply
Medical – The skill level of the ship’s Chief Medical Officer can be used to restore crew casualties (including Ship’s Troops or Marines); subtract one from the Medical skill of the Chief Medical Officer, divide by two, dropping fractions; the result is the number of crew sections (or 5 Marines/10 Ship’s Troops) returned to duty after four turns; this action may used twice in battle – once to restore a crew section and once to restore 5 Marines/10 Ship’s Troops
Engineering – The skill level of the Chief Engineer can affect Damage Control and Repair; for each repair attempt subtract one from the Engineering skill level of the Chief Engineer, divide by two, dropping fractions; the result is a + modifier on the repair attempt

I'll have to tackle this one after I figure out the basic model, but the whole work looks great. Now I really wished I had a programming skill.

Thanks again for sharing.

 

[RockyMountainNavy]

Thanks

I like High Guard and am trying different ideas to make it more enjoyable (at least to me). I don't post here to get all my ideas accepted but to hopefully inspire others! Thanks!

 

[snrdg082102]

Evening PST RockyMountainNavy,

I like High Guard and am trying different ideas to make it more enjoyable (at least to me). I don't post here to get all my ideas accepted but to hopefully inspire others! Thanks!

You're welcome and I'll be dropping by on your page more often since Donald McKinney shared the site.