Hiver Ships
- Thread starter atpollard
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BetterThanLife
SOC-14 1K
They look big, scary, high tech and appear to have Spinal mounts facing in 6 directions. (And that is just the Merchant Ships.) The Naval ships look like cute harmless little fuzzballs. So you can safely ignore the big nasty ships and concentrate on the harmless little fuzzballs.
Gruffty
SOC-14 1K
Canon Hiver ships
There are canon (i.e. brokne disegns) in CT AM 7 Hivers. Just basic Book 2 information (you know, "mounts maneuver dive A, giving 2 G acceleration", that sort of thing) is provided, no deckplans, one external view drawing (although it's not clear which of the ships in the book the drawing represents). No HG 2ed stats are provided, although you could reverse engineer them from the Book 2 stats if you wanted to. AFAIK there are *no* MT Hiver ship designs by either GDW or <cough!>DGP<cough!>and no Hiver ship designs in T4.
There are G:T Hiver ship designs in the G:T AR 3 Hiver & Droyne and these could be reverse engineered if you want to do the maths and convert from G:T ship construction methods back to CT/HG or MT. Decplans and CGIs of some of the ships are included in the book.
As for TNE, I 'll try to find my TNE Aliens of the Rim Hiver & Ithklur book and check for designs. Or perhaps someone on these boards could check and reply in respect of TNE Hiver ships.
BTW, PM me if you need support/further info on any of the above
There are canon (i.e. brokne disegns) in CT AM 7 Hivers. Just basic Book 2 information (you know, "mounts maneuver dive A, giving 2 G acceleration", that sort of thing) is provided, no deckplans, one external view drawing (although it's not clear which of the ships in the book the drawing represents). No HG 2ed stats are provided, although you could reverse engineer them from the Book 2 stats if you wanted to. AFAIK there are *no* MT Hiver ship designs by either GDW or <cough!>DGP<cough!>and no Hiver ship designs in T4.
There are G:T Hiver ship designs in the G:T AR 3 Hiver & Droyne and these could be reverse engineered if you want to do the maths and convert from G:T ship construction methods back to CT/HG or MT. Decplans and CGIs of some of the ships are included in the book.
As for TNE, I 'll try to find my TNE Aliens of the Rim Hiver & Ithklur book and check for designs. Or perhaps someone on these boards could check and reply in respect of TNE Hiver ships.
BTW, PM me if you need support/further info on any of the above
BetterThanLife
SOC-14 1K
Considering that Hivers are round, and radially symmetrical, flying Bricks as the "typical Hiver design" surprises me. (And are not consistent with the pictures in AM 7.)
Further the concept of Hivers building big square doors, instead of doors, and hallways that are basically triangular, because Hivers are short and wide, and evolved as cave dwellers. Allowing for other races aboard might account for higher ceilings but I would think that opposite Serenity, where the walls go out, on a Hiver ship they would go in. (As would the doors.) It makes sense from a Hiver, ergonomic standpoint.
I love Jesse DeGraff's work, but in this case I think he missed the starship.
Gallowglacht
SOC-12
The Reformation Coalition equipment guide had Hiver Tenders and Traders.
Looked like the block designs pictured on that website linked above.
Looked like the block designs pictured on that website linked above.
Gruffty
SOC-14 1K
Oooh, I didn't know that! I'll have to try to get the book!
Boo! Boring! Hivers in a shoebox? Nah, their ships would be much more organic looking, IMNSHO.
Without any reference, I had envisioned something like a sand dollar. Perhaps the interior is based on a hex grid (more cave-like, less bi-lateral human symmetry). I imagined the rooms being larger and perhaps multi-purpose. I imagined more system redundancy perhaps three of everything (bridges, power plants, drives).
Are Hivers solitary or communal nesters? Does each Hiver “need his space” or do they prefer to “hang out together”?
Those were my first thoughts, so I just wondered what “official” data was out there. Since there are so many versions of Traveller and so much “third party” data, I thought that this was the place to seek enlightenment.
Are Hivers solitary or communal nesters? Does each Hiver “need his space” or do they prefer to “hang out together”?
Those were my first thoughts, so I just wondered what “official” data was out there. Since there are so many versions of Traveller and so much “third party” data, I thought that this was the place to seek enlightenment.
Andrew Boulton
The Adminator
In CT, the ships are curvy.
In TNE, they're shoeboxes.
Why? Only the Hivers know...
In TNE, they're shoeboxes.
Why? Only the Hivers know...
Gruffty
SOC-14 1K
...or "organic" looking...
...and in G:T, as well...
...cos we like to keep you intelligent chimps wondering
...
Gruffty
SOC-14 1K
Err, what's one of them, then?
...sounds familiar, eh, Mr B?
...
No reason why they couldn't be, and there is no canon description of the interior of a Hiver ship to go by (AFAIK).
There's nothing in any of the books that indicates that's how the Hivers build the components into their ships, but then all that does is give people freedom to design Hiver ships as they think they should be, triple-redundancies and all.
Communal. They live in nests of up to 500 Hivers in each, although, once again, there's nothing canon that says "Hivers never, ever live alone".
Hivers work cooperatively with each other, but they also work on their own. I suspect they're very much like Humans.
The "hard core" of information about Hivers is actually all in CT AM7; G:T and TNE only adds small amounts of information about the Hivers, and this information complements the information in CT AM7.
And you were right, atpollard. G:T AR 3 and TNE: AotR are both based on the information in CT AM7. Large parts of both books contain verbatim copies of the text from CT AM7. TBH, G:T AR 3 and TNE AotR compement CT AM7 by adding snippets of additional imformation to that presented (and copied from) CT AM7.
One example of this is the idea of a Terminal Manipulation from TNE AotR:
There's nothing in AotR to say that Hivers didn't do this before the TNE period of the OTU, so we can use the concept in the CT era OTU.
BetterThanLife
SOC-14 1K
The only issue I have with a Sanddollar shape is that there is already a race that builds their ships, primarily as flattened spheres. They happen to inhabit the same end of the Imperium and don't like each other much. (The K'kree.) So while they don't list any general design parameters for Hiver ships, they shouldn't be primarily the same as their neighbor. Besides it is difficult to build a warren of passages in a disk.
Since Hivers are generally seen as higher tech, I would go with more complex and rounded shapes. Especially to set them apart from the flat disks of the K'kree. (Though in all fairness most of the Aslan canon ships are also complex curved shapes.)
Besides it is difficult to build a warren of passages in a disk. Since Hivers are generally seen as higher tech, I would go with more complex and rounded shapes. Especially to set them apart from the flat disks of the K'kree. (Though in all fairness most of the Aslan canon ships are also complex curved shapes.)
I read the CT AM for both Hivers and K'kree today. I must reluctantly agree about the flattened sphere NOT being an official Hiver shape.
The original CT decision may be wrong since most human ships tend to approximate human physiology (the bridge/brain at one end and the feet/drives at the opposite end with the basic form being longer than it is wide and wider than it is deep). Based on what I read of Hiver physiology and psychology, they might favor a protected brain (bridge) deep in the core surrounded by a second layer of vital systems (engineering) with an outer armor around this and an outermost layer of expendable spaces (cargo/fuel). A thick flattened sphere might have been ideal for this. Unfortunately, it is too late to change what has already been published, so I will attempt to work with what I have.
I still think that the Hiver physiology/mind set will drive internal ship design tend towards a multi-layered defense design within a thick protective shell. Evolution and culture tend to define the thought patterns that shape design perceptions. This is how Hivers were created and how they think in terms of personal protection.
Thank you all for your input.
The original CT decision may be wrong since most human ships tend to approximate human physiology (the bridge/brain at one end and the feet/drives at the opposite end with the basic form being longer than it is wide and wider than it is deep). Based on what I read of Hiver physiology and psychology, they might favor a protected brain (bridge) deep in the core surrounded by a second layer of vital systems (engineering) with an outer armor around this and an outermost layer of expendable spaces (cargo/fuel). A thick flattened sphere might have been ideal for this. Unfortunately, it is too late to change what has already been published, so I will attempt to work with what I have.
I still think that the Hiver physiology/mind set will drive internal ship design tend towards a multi-layered defense design within a thick protective shell. Evolution and culture tend to define the thought patterns that shape design perceptions. This is how Hivers were created and how they think in terms of personal protection.
Thank you all for your input.
BetterThanLife
SOC-14 1K
Interesting to build it based on their physiology. I was thinking more on their accustomed environment. Build it, internally, as a hive, honeycombed with passages and multi-leveled, with rooms throughout. Also Hivers don't appear to physically work well with things like ladders. Not that they couldn't negotiate one, but it wouldn't be their chosen method of changing levels. (I am thinking ramps.) I still think passageways would tend toward triangular.
I would think that the ships would appear elegant, rounded but irregularly shaped. Something along the lines of the look of the ship pictured in Adventure 12, Secrets of the Ancients has more of a Hiver feel to me. Not the bricks pictured previously.
I would think that the ships would appear elegant, rounded but irregularly shaped. Something along the lines of the look of the ship pictured in Adventure 12, Secrets of the Ancients has more of a Hiver feel to me. Not the bricks pictured previously.
Commander Drax
SOC-12
Great Pictures by the way in keeping with the TNE illustrations in the RCEG perhaps the flying show brick design is yet another Hiver Manipulations, well have to ask Gruffty!
Hiver ships look like Hivers because humans build ships in the shape of humans?
Yes and no.
Humans have binocular vision and hands designed to manipulate objects in front of them. As a consequence, most human created objects have a distinctive “front” – a side to be interfaced with that is more important than the other five ‘sides’. Look at a monitor, keyboard, telephone, or a door. They all have a front that is more important. The objects do not have fronts just because people have fronts, but human physiology (physical form) and psychology (how we perceive the world) encourage humans to construct objects with a front. Our objects reflect our world view. Humans are accustomed to LOOKING where they are going, so we design craft to allow us a good view of what is ahead of us. This results in the forward bridge common on human spacecraft and naturally creates a human perception of a “head”, a “body” and a “tail” in rockets, missiles, aircraft, and spacecraft.
Hivers are not like people. Their evolution has created Hivers with 360 degree vision, so Hivers will think in terms of all directions at once. Hiver made objects should reflect this. Hiver physiology (physical form) protects the Hiver by placing the brain at the center of mass protected with a skull. This protected brain is in then further protected by vital organs which are covered by a second shell. This second shell is covered by protective muscles and “expendable” soft tissue. Since Hivers are known to be primarily a defensive species which deplores hand-to-hand combat, it seems reasonable that they would think in terms of a layered defense – exactly how evolution had programmed their survival instincts. Just as humans instinctively cover their heads to protect themselves, so Hivers should think in terms of sacrificing a tentacle to preserve internal organs and sacrificing internal organs to protect the brain. When it came time for Hivers to venture into space, they should naturally seek protection and would probably use their own natural defenses (which they know a great deal about) as their model for designing a ship. That is why Hiver ships should reflect Hiver bodies.
Aslans, by contrast tend towards aggression and weaponry, so Aslan ships should accentuate offensive capabilities that harmonize with Aslan physiology (physical form) and psychology (how they perceive the world). “The best Defense is a good Offense”.
