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CT Only: House rules: consumable supplies in HG

As with the scanners and ECM, I am prepared to overcome my reluctance to write house rules for the sake of addressing the lack of HG rules for consumable supplies.

This is what I've come up with, and I'd be grateful for any thoughts or observations.


Consumable Supplies

Consumable Supplies covers three things: life support, missiles, and sand cannisters


Life Support

The ship design rules assume a standard "trip" of two weeks, for which a life support cost of Cr2,000 per stateroom is incurred. HG power plant fuel requirements are calculated on the basis of the power required to support four weeks' cruising (including time in jump space) without replenishment. It is reasonable to suppose, therefore, that the standard formula for living accommodation provision includes sufficient storage / handling facilities for four weeks' worth of life support (food, water, air etc.) so that a ship may stay in space for as long as the standard fuel load allows without extra provisioning.

For most civilian vessels, this will be all the provisioning required. Many military ships, however, have to be capable of being self-sustaining for much longer periods than this. In order to do so, they need to have additional space fitted out to carry additional life support supplies. The tonnage required is 1 ton per 40 personnel per additional week's worth of life support; and the cost of fitting out this space in an appropriate manner is Cr1,000 per ton. Life support supplies themselves are, of course, extra and must be paid for as and when required.

When a ship's life support supplies are exhausted it must replenish its supplies, either at a friendly spaceport, base or world, or by having fresh supplies brought to it by a resupply ship.

The life support requirement formula may also be used to calculate the supply requirements of personnel on barren worlds or in vacuum situations (such as on a permanent space station). On worlds with breathable atmospheres - even if the population is hostile - it will be unnecessary to import air and water may be available locally, meaning that the amount of life support supplies required will be very much reduced.


Missiles

A missile turret, whether single, double or triple, may fire just 3 times before its ammunition is exhausted.

A 50-ton missile bay may fire 15 salvoes before its missiles are exhausted.

A 100-ton missile bay may fire 20 salvoes before its missiles are exhausted.

If a missile-armed ship is to continue firing beyond these ammunition limits, space must be allocated for a missile magazine.

In ships with missile turrets, magazine space is allocated in blocks of 3 tons. Each 3 ton block allows for 20 triple turret reloads, or 30 double turret reloads, or 60 single turret reloads.

In ships with missile bays, magazine space is allocated in blocks of 15 tons. Each 15 ton block allows for 4 reloads of a 100-ton bay, or 6 reloads of a 50-ton bay.

The cost of fitting out a missile magazine with all appropriate racking, blast protection and handling facilities is Cr 25,000 per ton. The cost of the missiles themselves is extra, and works out at Cr 100,000 per ton.

When the magazine is depleted or exhausted, it can be replenished at a friendly navy base or missile depot, or replacement missiles may be brought to the ship by a friendly resupply ship. When supplying or resupplying a ship's missile magazine, the player must specify and record how many of the missiles have nuclear warheads and how many have conventional HE warheads, as a ship obviously cannot fire ordnance which it is not carrying.


Sand Cannisters

Sandcaster turrets may only fire three times before their ammunition is exhausted. To continue firing beyond this ammunition limit, space must be allocated within the ship for a sand canister magazine.

Space for sand canister magazines is allocated in blocks of 3 tons. Each block of 3 tons allows for 20 triple turret reloads, or 30 double turret reloads, or 60 single turret reloads. The cost of fitting out is Cr 5,000 per ton. The cost of the sand cannisters themselves is extra, and works out at Cr8,000 per ton.

When the magazine is depleted or exhausted, it can be replenished at a friendly navy base or sand depot, or replacement cannisters may be brought by a friendly resupply ship.


NOTE: Missiles cannot be stored in sand canister magazines, nor sand canisters in missile magazines. The fitting-out of the two types of magazine is entirely different and neither is appropriate to the other.
 
As with the scanners and ECM, I am prepared to overcome my reluctance to write house rules for the sake of addressing the lack of HG rules for consumable supplies.

This is what I've come up with, and I'd be grateful for any thoughts or observations.


Consumable Supplies

Consumable Supplies covers three things: life support, missiles, and sand cannisters


Life Support

The ship design rules assume a standard "trip" of two weeks, for which a life support cost of Cr2,000 per stateroom is incurred. HG power plant fuel requirements are calculated on the basis of the power required to support four weeks' cruising (including time in jump space) without replenishment. It is reasonable to suppose, therefore, that the standard formula for living accommodation provision includes sufficient storage / handling facilities for four weeks' worth of life support (food, water, air etc.) so that a ship may stay in space for as long as the standard fuel load allows without extra provisioning.

For most civilian vessels, this will be all the provisioning required. Many military ships, however, have to be capable of being self-sustaining for much longer periods than this. In order to do so, they need to have additional space fitted out to carry additional life support supplies. The tonnage required is 1 ton per 40 personnel per additional week's worth of life support; and the cost of fitting out this space in an appropriate manner is Cr1,000 per ton. Life support supplies themselves are, of course, extra and must be paid for as and when required.

When a ship's life support supplies are exhausted it must replenish its supplies, either at a friendly spaceport, base or world, or by having fresh supplies brought to it by a resupply ship.

The life support requirement formula may also be used to calculate the supply requirements of personnel on barren worlds or in vacuum situations (such as on a permanent space station). On worlds with breathable atmospheres - even if the population is hostile - it will be unnecessary to import air and water may be available locally, meaning that the amount of life support supplies required will be very much reduced.


Missiles

A missile turret, whether single, double or triple, may fire just 3 times before its ammunition is exhausted.

A 50-ton missile bay may fire 15 salvoes before its missiles are exhausted.

A 100-ton missile bay may fire 20 salvoes before its missiles are exhausted.

If a missile-armed ship is to continue firing beyond these ammunition limits, space must be allocated for a missile magazine.

In ships with missile turrets, magazine space is allocated in blocks of 3 tons. Each 3 ton block allows for 20 triple turret reloads, or 30 double turret reloads, or 60 single turret reloads.

In ships with missile bays, magazine space is allocated in blocks of 15 tons. Each 15 ton block allows for 4 reloads of a 100-ton bay, or 6 reloads of a 50-ton bay.

The cost of fitting out a missile magazine with all appropriate racking, blast protection and handling facilities is Cr 25,000 per ton. The cost of the missiles themselves is extra, and works out at Cr 100,000 per ton.

When the magazine is depleted or exhausted, it can be replenished at a friendly navy base or missile depot, or replacement missiles may be brought to the ship by a friendly resupply ship. When supplying or resupplying a ship's missile magazine, the player must specify and record how many of the missiles have nuclear warheads and how many have conventional HE warheads, as a ship obviously cannot fire ordnance which it is not carrying.


Sand Cannisters

Sandcaster turrets may only fire three times before their ammunition is exhausted. To continue firing beyond this ammunition limit, space must be allocated within the ship for a sand canister magazine.

Space for sand canister magazines is allocated in blocks of 3 tons. Each block of 3 tons allows for 20 triple turret reloads, or 30 double turret reloads, or 60 single turret reloads. The cost of fitting out is Cr 5,000 per ton. The cost of the sand cannisters themselves is extra, and works out at Cr8,000 per ton.

When the magazine is depleted or exhausted, it can be replenished at a friendly navy base or sand depot, or replacement cannisters may be brought by a friendly resupply ship.


NOTE: Missiles cannot be stored in sand canister magazines, nor sand canisters in missile magazines. The fitting-out of the two types of magazine is entirely different and neither is appropriate to the other.

No argument from me. (So long as we are allowed "a friendly resupply ship".)
 
Of course you're allowed the resupply ships.

I'm trying to develop a system in which all the fleet auxiliaries, which are the staple fare of modern navies, are needed.

In which, if you're going to throw millions of missiles about the place, you gotta GET them to the front.

I'm thinking of the massive effort which went into supplying the archers of Agincourt with their arrows writ large on an interstellar scale ... and the prospect of wars being won not so much by destroying the fighting forces on the front line, as by disrupting the logistical tail that supplies them.

Because then, oddly enough, even in a big ship universe, the small fighting ship has a role, and can make a difference.

:)
 
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The missiles special supplement gives us an extra 12 missiles stored per turret - so the actual number should be 7 turns of fire.
 
Of course you're allowed the resupply ships.

I'm trying to develop a system in which all the fleet auxiliaries, which are the staple fare of modern navies, are needed.

In which, if you're going to throw millions of missiles about the place, you gotta GET them to the front.

I'm thinking of the massive effort which went into supplying the archers of Agincourt with their arrows writ large on an interstellar scale ... and the prospect of wars being won not so much by destroying the fighting forces on the front line, as by disrupting the logistical tail that supplies it.

Because then, oddly enough, even in a big ship universe, the small fighting ship has a role, and can make a difference.

:)

I can't think of how long I've tried to get people to use Fleet Auxiliaries. but, so far, to no avail. They seem to think a large ship can double as a cargo carrier and still be both cost effective and a maximally capable combatant.

I enjoyed your last PM and since you sent the info quietly I'm leaving it out of the public discussion.

Logistics win wars and every competent military officer knows it.
 
The missiles special supplement gives us an extra 12 missiles stored per turret - so the actual number should be 7 turns of fire.

Ahhh ... I keep reading about this missiles special supplement ... but I've never seen it.

The three per rack comes from LBB2 ... and I have scaled all of my figures off assumptions that can be drawn from that. The numbers look quite plausible to me (once I've suspended my disbelief over the 50kg nuke ... :file_21: )
 
I can't think of how long I've tried to get people to use Fleet Auxiliaries. but, so far, to no avail.

...

Logistics win wars and every competent military officer knows it.


You and I seem to be thinking along similar lines, then.

The OTU explanation of all the merchant ships being called up in the event of hostilities just doesn't cut it for me.

Merchants ship the smallest, cheapest computers they can get away with to cut costs. Military vessels (even the fleet auxiliaries) ship the best their technology allows, to minimize the risk of being blatted by any passing hostile patrol frigate. And never the twain shall meet ...

Sure, it's more fun designing the fighting craft ... but without a credible logistics effort behind them, it just feels all wrong.

And adventures based around a naval resupply probably offer much more scope for fun and excitement, then playing around with a front-line meson armed ship that either destroys the opposing vessel and everyone in it, or gets destroyed with everyone in it.

I like to think in terms of secret deep space stations, to allow surprise attacks beyond the supposed reach of the attacking forces ... but the logistics effort behind such a facility is HUGE .... so the objective has to be worth the candle.

And then, if you've got such a huge logistics effort going on, how do you keep it concealed from prying eyes?

Is that what some of the Red Zones are really all about??

There's plenty of room for creativity here ... and sub-plots waiting to be uncovered about why the poor little A2 Far Trader was REALLY chased out of the system by that big-ass warship for no apparent reason.


And of course, with the number of personnel that would be involved in trying to keep it all hush-hush ... well, surely somebody might get a little indiscrete? And then, why did they suddenly disappear?

And why, when your drinking companion was set upon by a load of thugs, and you intervened to help him, did the MPs suddenly turn up, throw all of your party (but not the thugs) in jail overnight, and then release you without charge ... ?

Theres' all sorts of possibilities that grow out of this one
 
I like to think in terms of secret deep space stations, to allow surprise attacks beyond the supposed reach of the attacking forces ... but the logistics effort behind such a facility is HUGE .... so the objective has to be worth the candle.
Theres' all sorts of possibilities that grow out of this one

Black Globe

Invisibility: Since a black globe field absorbs all energy, a ship with its field completely on is, at any range over a few kilometers, effectively invisible...

However, the advantages to a fleet which has not yet been detected by the
enemy are immense. Suppose, for instance... Further tactical possibilities
are left to the imaginations of the referee and players. - HG2, p. 43

Now space is big and if a 1,000,000dt station ship/base was hiding in an otherwise empty hex?

Say it moves (by jump) every so often...

Even for those who claim it can be detected by blocking starlight have to be looking in the right direction AND wait the relevant Light Time to have those sensors "see" that phenomenon.

On top of that, while it can't transmit out of it's protective Globe, it CAN RECEIVE signals:

Since a black globe absorbs all energy... - HG2, p. 42

A good receiver picks up the incoming warning from the station picket and patrol escorts and it jumps to a predetermined rendezvous...

"Further tactical possibilities are left to the imaginations of the referee and players"? Strategic too...
 
Ahhh ... I keep reading about this missiles special supplement ... but I've never seen it.

The three per rack comes from LBB2 ... and I have scaled all of my figures off assumptions that can be drawn from that. The numbers look quite plausible to me (once I've suspended my disbelief over the 50kg nuke ... :file_21: )

It's on the CD...
 
People keep asking where does the IN budget go - all those fleets don't come close for accounting for the credits.

Training

Logistics/supply (the IN supply fleet must be at least the same size as the battle squadrons if not bigger)

R&D

naval bases

now that last one has begun to fascinate me - what if an IN base is a 100Mt dispersed structure jump 1 ship protected by a black globe? :CoW:
 
what if an IN base is a 100Mt dispersed structure jump 1 ship protected by a black globe? :CoW:

:devil:

I really am surprised you never gave that one some thought long ago.

Fascinating possibilities there don't you think?;)

You could rarely, if ever, find it. Even then all you would know is where it WAS. You could never PLAN an attack on it.

Now think of the poor PCs ship that chances to missjump into an otherwise "empty" hex...

BTW, I stick with 1,000,000dt due to the "Z" reserved status. Not sure how much a Black Globe can cover, but, I do believe it would have been rule covered if it couldn't handle HG2 tonnage sizes.
 
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FFW introduced the TankRon for refuling squadrons, my mindset has always envisioned these as resupply squadrons and did more than provide just fuel but also any needed munitions and life support replenishment that was needed.
Now as for the size and and type of ships minimal would be J4 & 5Kt+ with primarily defensive weapons.
 
Interesting.

One of the reasons I have always favoured BRs over BBs is that you can include a fuel skim rider. While the BRs go off and fight, the FS goes and fetches them their next drink of L-hyd ...

:) at that handy GG, protected by those SDBs.

Its probably not wise to send the most vital strategic asset of a BR fleet, off on refuelling missions without a very significant escort. If the opposition merits the attention of the entire squadron, you can bet they have the resources spare to guard against lightly protected fuel runs.

Its also worth considering that the 'cheap' fuel skimmer is strategically just as important as the tender. A tender with a fuel skimmer is typically saving costs by having un-streamlined BRs.

Food for thought.
 
MgT has halved the life support costs by making them monthly instead of per jump (fortnight). Sadly, they gave all consumables a shelf-life of one month since the cost is incurred whether a stateroom is occupied or not. And then they made double occupancy cost +50% instead of double up.

My suggestion would be a basic cost of Cr600/month per stateroom, occupied or not (though I can't tell you just what all that money buys -- air, water, and sewage systems flushed every couple of months, but what else?), plus Cr300/10 days per passenger and crew. Why per 10 days? Because passengers for a jump only spend 10 days at the very most (usually less) on a ship.


Hans
 
:) at that handy GG, protected by those SDBs.

Its probably not wise to send the most vital strategic asset of a BR fleet, off on refuelling missions without a very significant escort. If the opposition merits the attention of the entire squadron, you can bet they have the resources spare to guard against lightly protected fuel runs.

Its also worth considering that the 'cheap' fuel skimmer is strategically just as important as the tender. A tender with a fuel skimmer is typically saving costs by having un-streamlined BRs.

Food for thought.


The BRs have fuel for 4 weeks of maneouvre; there's no hurry to refuel them, and I certainly don't send the skim on unescorted fuel-gathering missions until the gas giant or dipping world to be used has been secured!
 
The BRs have fuel for 4 weeks of maneouvre; there's no hurry to refuel them, and I certainly don't send the skim on unescorted fuel-gathering missions until the gas giant or dipping world to be used has been secured!

I like drop tanks on the Tender as it's actual tanks. They are detached, attached to the Riders, skimmed and returned to the Tender where the tanks are reattached and fuel processed. Play with that a bit under HG2 rules and you'll see the advantages.
 
I like drop tanks on the Tender as it's actual tanks. They are detached, attached to the Riders, skimmed and returned to the Tender where the tanks are reattached and fuel processed. Play with that a bit under HG2 rules and you'll see the advantages.

That's a cute design concept.

I've never really investigated the potential of drop tanks. Maybe I need to look into them a bit more ...
 
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