How do Alien Levels work?

[BetterThanLife]

OK this may be or seem a silly question, but the way I read it Ursa get one Alien Level and 1,000XP before they start. Virushi, get three alien levels and 6,000XP before they start. This is designed to slow down their initial starting progress. But I am unclear as to how this works.

My guess would be that the skill multiplier for an Alien Level is 0 no intelligence modifier. So they would receive no skills for having Alien Levels. But what happens to the Feats and Ability Increases. Does a 1st level Ursa Mercenary (2nd Character Level) get the feat that everyone gets at Character Level 1? Does the Virushi get the 2 feats and ability increase for being Character Level 4 at the start of the process?

Since the Starting (x4) skill points are only available for the class taken at level 1 does the Alien level effect that?

It looks like it should be obvious but several things about character creation have struck me as counter intuitive so far.

 

[Flynn]

As T20 was based on 3E, I'd say you should use Alien levels as levels for the purposes of determining level based effects. They are not class levels, so you gain no class-related benefits from them, but you do gain level-based benefits from them.

Basically, it makes it longer before you advance in ability, a trade-off for the more powerful base character you have by taking such a race.

Hope this helps,
Flynn

 

[Malenfant]

I know this isn't exactly what you're talking about here, but one thing that might be interesting to introduce to T20 is Race Levels (I think these are introduced in the D&D Unearthed Arcana book). These are levels (usually a maximum of three levels) that you can take in your RACE - as opposed to your class - that allow you access to more advanced racial abilities.

So for a Hiver, for example, increasing race level would make for a better manipulator. Droyne maybe could get better psionics or psi bonuses, Vargr might get higher Charisma or standing, etc.

 

[BetterThanLife]

Originally posted by Flynn:
As T20 was based on 3E, I'd say you should use Alien levels as levels for the purposes of determining level based effects. They are not class levels, so you gain no class-related benefits from them, but you do gain level-based benefits from them.

Basically, it makes it longer before you advance in ability, a trade-off for the more powerful base character you have by taking such a race.

Hope this helps,
Flynn

So you get the Character Level Feats and Ability Increases? Then When you choose your first non-alien level the other bit takes over, like the 4x skills. (Which is the way I figured it should work but I have been wrong before.

)

 

[Flynn]

Bhoins,

That's how I would work it. (In fact, that's how I have worked it, for 3E and T20.) v3.5 is different, of course, but T20 isn't a v3.5 product. This is only my opinion, based on my understanding of the rules, but it seems to work within the context of the game.

Hope this helps,
Flynn

 

[aramis]

Alien levels are levels with NO benefits (they are there to pay for the racial abilities already present) other than making your character level higher. They do count towards character level, but are primarily to raise the cost of leveling up.

They are exactly the same as the ECL modifier from D&D3.

 

[BetterThanLife]

Originally posted by Aramis:
Alien levels are levels with NO benefits (they are there to pay for the racial abilities already present) other than making your character level higher. They do count towards character level, but are primarily to raise the cost of leveling up.

They are exactly the same as the ECL modifier from D&D3.

If they have no benefits whatsoever what happens to the Feats and ability increases that you zip right on by? Are they ignored? Are they shifted?

Everyone else seems to believe that you get those feats and ability increases at the normal points. 1st, 3rd, 4th, etc. It definitely helps with bookkeeping.

 

[aramis]

If the character has 1 alien level, and is a level 1 scout, for example, he's a level 2 character, but with level 1 skills.he gets his 3rd CL feat when he makes 3rd level, and his attribute at 4th.

ACharacter with, say, 5 alien levels, and still a first level scout, still has 4(4+Int) SP, 1 HD, and is a 6th level character. He DOESN'T get the feats for levels 3 and 6, nor the attribute for level 4. He will, however, gain the bonus feat at 9, and at 12, and the atts at 8 and 12 (total character level).


Alien levels can't be raised by any normal means; the shaggies might gain a level by becoming a shaggie (they aren't that tough), and a Geonee with a level of alien might gain a second.

Alien levels are there to ballance out the fact that certain racial features make them significantly more buff than normal races. Therefore the lost feats and attriute points are subsumed into the racial description.

 

[BetterThanLife]

Originally posted by Aramis:
If the character has 1 alien level, and is a level 1 scout, for example, he's a level 2 character, but with level 1 skills.he gets his 3rd CL feat when he makes 3rd level, and his attribute at 4th.

ACharacter with, say, 5 alien levels, and still a first level scout, still has 4(4+Int) SP, 1 HD, and is a 6th level character. He DOESN'T get the feats for levels 3 and 6, nor the attribute for level 4. He will, however, gain the bonus feat at 9, and at 12, and the atts at 8 and 12 (total character level).


Alien levels can't be raised by any normal means; the shaggies might gain a level by becoming a shaggie (they aren't that tough), and a Geonee with a level of alien might gain a second.

Alien levels are there to ballance out the fact that certain racial features make them significantly more buff than normal races. Therefore the lost feats and attriute points are subsumed into the racial description.

If he has 5 alien levels and is a first level scout, then he should get the 6th level feat. (Though not a 5th level one, if there were one.) After all a first level human gets the feat at level 1.

What, under your reading of the rules, would the maximum skill ranks for a 6th Character Level Ursa Marine be (1 Alien Level, 5 Marine Levels) in a Class Skill?

 

[aramis]

If he has 5 alien levels and is a first level scout, then he should get the 6th level feat. (Though not a 5th level one, if there were one.) After all a first level human gets the feat at level 1.

He still gets the starting character feat, but loses the level 6 feat.

What, under your reading of the rules, would the maximum skill ranks for a 6th Character Level Ursa Marine be (1 Alien Level, 5 Marine Levels) in a Class Skill?

4

 

[BetterThanLife]

Originally posted by Aramis:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />If he has 5 alien levels and is a first level scout, then he should get the 6th level feat. (Though not a 5th level one, if there were one.) After all a first level human gets the feat at level 1.

He still gets the starting character feat, but loses the level 6 feat.

What, under your reading of the rules, would the maximum skill ranks for a 6th Character Level Ursa Marine be (1 Alien Level, 5 Marine Levels) in a Class Skill?

4 </font>[/QUOTE]OK Now I am totally confused on how you read this. He doesn't get the 6th Character Level Feat but does get the 1st Character Level Feat? (Not the first Scout Level Bonus Feat, the 1st Character Level Feat.)

Where does 4 come from? I thought your max class skill ranks was your Character Level +3. So if you are a 6th Level Character the Max Class Skill ranks would be 9. If you are going to discount the Alien Level then it should be 8.

 

[aramis]

Alien Levels do not count for skill level caps. (Nor do ECL adjustments). Alien Level should be renamed back to ECL adjustment, now that that is in the SRD.

Every Character gets one feat when first created, plus possibly some from class level one. Humans get a bonus feat.

Essentially, create a 1st level character. THEN add the Alien Levels to determine how much level 2 costs.... the alien levels are NOT levels for any purposes except determining XP costs to level up. They don't count as levels for multi-classing. They don't raise your skill limits. They don't gain you extra HD, HP, skill points, feats, nor Attributes.

They DO count when figuring XP gained, XP needed, and Challenge Rating. But that's about it, and most T20 GM's are not using CR's.

sorry for muddling it.

 

[far-trader]

I used to think the whole Alien Level thing was pretty simple and straight forward. Then I started following this forum

The way I used to understand it was:

Player 1 wants an Ursa (Ursine?) PC.

They begin play with 1,000xp and all the abilities listed for the alien race. They do not choose a feat for Character level 1, it is included in the alien race special abilities. They do not yet have any skill choices either, those come from Class levels. They do have homeworld background skills as appropriate. And with 1,000xp they are a 2nd Level Character but there are no benefits at 2nd Level Character. They must now choose a Class for the 2nd Level Character to enter.

The player decides they want to start with the Traveller class. There are no multi-class restrictions so that is fine.

They are now multi-class Ursa-1/Traveller-1 with 1,000xp and a single d6 for Stamina from the Traveller Class level plus the starting Ursa Stamina bonus of Constitution score x2.

The player may now select the initial skill set for a Traveller, with (6 + Intelligence bonus) x4 Ranks since this is the Initial Class Level*. The PC's max ranks are 5 and 2 being a 2nd Level Character.

* Though I'm not sure that is right. Is the Alien level a Class level and therefore the x4 bonus is already used for Alien bonuses? I think this was asked above but I'm not sure which way would be right. I can see either but feel calling the Alien Level a Class level wouldn't be unfair so maybe the x4 should be lost.

The player also gets the 3 starting feats for a Traveller class character and the 1 bonus feat for a 1st level Traveller class character.

The character proceeds to roll prior history and collects 7,000xp for a total of 8,000xp. The PC advances 4th Level Character and will gain the 3rd level feat and the 4th level ability bonus. They will also have to choose a Class to fill the 3rd and 4th Character levels. The player sticks with Traveller and is now a 4th Level Character multi-classed as Ursa-1/Traveller-3.

Like I said it seems clear to me, but reading the previous I'm not so sure. Did I just confuse the issue even more or does that sound right and not too hard at all?

 

[BetterThanLife]

Originally posted by far-trader:
I used to think the whole Alien Level thing was pretty simple and straight forward. Then I started following this forum

The way I used to understand it was:

Player 1 wants an Ursa (Ursine?) PC.

They begin play with 1,000xp and all the abilities listed for the alien race. They do not choose a feat for Character level 1, it is included in the alien race special abilities. They do not yet have any skill choices either, those come from Class levels. They do have homeworld background skills as appropriate. And with 1,000xp they are a 2nd Level Character but there are no benefits at 2nd Level Character. They must now choose a Class for the 2nd Level Character to enter.

The player decides they want to start with the Traveller class. There are no multi-class restrictions so that is fine.

They are now multi-class Ursa-1/Traveller-1 with 1,000xp and a single d6 for Stamina from the Traveller Class level plus the starting Ursa Stamina bonus of Constitution score x2.

The player may now select the initial skill set for a Traveller, with (6 + Intelligence bonus) x4 Ranks since this is the Initial Class Level*. The PC's max ranks are 5 and 2 being a 2nd Level Character.

* Though I'm not sure that is right. Is the Alien level a Class level and therefore the x4 bonus is already used for Alien bonuses? I think this was asked above but I'm not sure which way would be right. I can see either but feel calling the Alien Level a Class level wouldn't be unfair so maybe the x4 should be lost.

The player also gets the 3 starting feats for a Traveller class character and the 1 bonus feat for a 1st level Traveller class character.

The character proceeds to roll prior history and collects 7,000xp for a total of 8,000xp. The PC advances 4th Level Character and will gain the 3rd level feat and the 4th level ability bonus. They will also have to choose a Class to fill the 3rd and 4th Character levels. The player sticks with Traveller and is now a 4th Level Character multi-classed as Ursa-1/Traveller-3.

Like I said it seems clear to me, but reading the previous I'm not so sure. Did I just confuse the issue even more or does that sound right and not too hard at all?

Everything sounds right. THe big question is what happens to that Character Level 1 feat. (Or for a Virushi, character level 1 and 3 feat and Character level 4 ability increase. SInce they are Character Level things not Class Level, I see that hard to justify along with the slower advancement. An Ursa isn't that much better than an Aslan. I am not saying they aren't better, but are they really that much better? And pacifist, Centaurs with Tank Blood, yes they are harder to kill but they don't shoot back all that well.

And both of those classes will have a difficult time, especially the Virushi, because of their size. (Buying a Vaccsuit off the rack for an Ursa would never work unless it was on an Ursa world.

 

[BetterThanLife]

I guess it could go either way, but it doesn't say so in either the THB or the TGP (Playtest files.)

 

[aramis]

doesn't sound right.

Generate the URSA as tho he's a normal (non-alien leveled) character, including the first level feat and skills.
Shift his XP requirements and Character Level up one for being an URSA Then. When he gets the next XP break, he pays for his next level as tho he's a 2d level character, but then uses 2d level restrictions, even tho he's just made third.

Since alien levels can never be added in play (without serious weirdness), it progresses this way ad infinitum.

Hunter and the Playtest screwed that up badly; I know I argued for different wording, but don't recall how different.