Garyius2003
SOC-13
I think most of us here know the bedrock rules of combat ships in Traveller old school High Guard. Missile carrier with a spinal through TL14, Spinal Meson J through T at TL 15.
At sub 3K tons Missiles and Pulse Lasers with as much M , A, and computer as you can fit in.
I had way too much to drink Saturday, and reread Mongood and Mongoose High Guard Sunday. How does that change the game?
I started with Gazelle v Fiery. Average Crews with skill 1. Medium Range. Both ships wish to fight so I assume they try to stay at medium and use their thrust for the fight.
Initiative 2D6, both ships plus one for skill, Fiery an extra plus one for thrust. Slight advantage Fiery.
Gazelle: Sandcaster/Beam x two turrets. Beams are medium range. Damage 2D6. Also missile/missile x two turrets. Special range. Assume nuclear and 2D6 plus crew hit. Armor 8
Fiery: Beam/Beam/Beam x two turrets. All high yield so all rolls of one become a two (+1 applied one time out of six). Missile/Missile/Missile single turret. Fusion Bay 14 equals 5D6 plus medium range. Armor 8
Turn one, slight advantage Fiery. Assume no sensor locks the entire combat because the operators and gear are matched.
Assume it wins and fires all weapons. Gazelle fires the sandcasters and fires the beams at the same time because otherwise the beams are out of action. Fiery uses its thrust to skill chain the pilot's 1. The Fiery can use three actions--one for each weapon type, and still have two to dodge.
Fiery pilot chain chance is 2D6 +1 minus 8. .416 of a +1 for the gunner, however, .416 chance of a minus one or minus two for the gunner. Assume a wash on the fusion gun.
(Book one beam laser rules)
Gazelle choses to dodge and use both sandcasters on the fusion gun. It also dodges the beams. Gazelle dodge = 2D6+1 trying for 8+ (.583 chance of success). Exact same chance of success for the Fiery beam gunners if the Gazelle misses the dodge, otherwise Fiery only hits .277.
Gazelle sandcasters stop 1D6 of damage EACH .583 of the time. Assume on the first exchange Fiery fusion misses, following chance. One beam turret hits, one misses. .277 chance of any damage given the armor, assume one hit rolled on the external table at 2 points. .277 chance it will be a hull hit, followed by armor and turret at lesser percents. Assume a hull hit of 1 lowering the Gazelle to 7 hull points.
The Gazelle returns fire with two beams, both dodged. Same percentages. Assume one hits, but only .277 percent chance of making it through the armor, total.
Next round, luck is with the Fiery and its slight +1 again lets it go first. It reserves its beam turrets for point defense.
Same chances. Fusion barely misses.
Missiles also track in (one round late). Same pilot chain chances, gunnery check, assume turret had an effect 1-5. Dodging by Gazelle and point defense fire. .583 percent chance of -2. Gunnery point defense check to target missiles starts at .583 but falls off quickly.
Assume one gets through, hull hit, Gazelle has six left. One crewman radition damage.
This could just as easily been a miss.
Gazelle missiles resolved the same way, light damage.
Third round, Gazelle wins, light damage exchanged except the fusion gun hits.
5D6. Three single hits, two hull one armor. Hull now four, armor now seven.
Gazelle attempts to break off. It makes it or dies in the next three rounds
Slight advantage of the fusion gun is telling.
However, the exact same fight, with the gunners on the Gazelle and the pilot having skill two, totally change everything. The chances to dodge and hit now increase to almost 70%, and the Gazelle should win.
Of course, the same is true of the Fiery, but even more so. A pilot two and gunner two for just the fusion bay results on a triple hit on the first or second round. A second gunner two for the missiles gives two or even three hits on the second round.
Yes, I left something important out. The Gazelle has a computer rating of 20. It could run fire control 4, giving a +4 to (hopefully if the crew is smart) one of its missile shots. The Fiery can run fire control 5, giving it a +5 to the fusion gun bay. In that case, given skill level one crews, the Fiery lands a triple hit with two hull and one armor on round one, and also on round two (or two out of three missile hits the second and third round at a total of four hits on hull and armor and two crew hits per round).
The Gazelle gets one beam hit on round one and a second beam hit on round two, along with two missile hits for a missile total of four hits on hull and armor and two crew hits per round.
Skills: Gunner is most important, followed by pilot, followed by sensors, then leadership/tactics.
Computer rating is just as important.
Lesson--Having a big gun is important, but more so is the skill of the crewmen and the rating of the computer. In small ship combat, thrust 4 or more is important for the plus one/minus one it gives the ships. Armor is very important, 8 is the minimum, 10 would have been even better. Nuclear missles are useful, I did not game out smart missiles or basics because of the lesser damage.
Moving on past these small ships and using High Guard fully---If we used all of the High Guard rules, neither ship would use its beam lasers on the other until a second armor hit. The change to 1D6 means that a beam laster simply will not do damage to an 8 armor ship. In which case, the fight is a missile and fusion bay duel.
This also means that at armor 12 and above NO turret weapons will do damage so long as the ship has rad armor. The smallest offensive weapons that a destroyer escort and above should carry is a PA barbette, energy bay, or torpedo bay. A missle bay is worthless against a ship with armor 12+. For the same class, beam lasers should be restricted to point defense only, along with sandcasters.
Pulse lasers as just as bad, -2 to hit and short ranged.
At sub 3K tons Missiles and Pulse Lasers with as much M , A, and computer as you can fit in.
I had way too much to drink Saturday, and reread Mongood and Mongoose High Guard Sunday. How does that change the game?
I started with Gazelle v Fiery. Average Crews with skill 1. Medium Range. Both ships wish to fight so I assume they try to stay at medium and use their thrust for the fight.
Initiative 2D6, both ships plus one for skill, Fiery an extra plus one for thrust. Slight advantage Fiery.
Gazelle: Sandcaster/Beam x two turrets. Beams are medium range. Damage 2D6. Also missile/missile x two turrets. Special range. Assume nuclear and 2D6 plus crew hit. Armor 8
Fiery: Beam/Beam/Beam x two turrets. All high yield so all rolls of one become a two (+1 applied one time out of six). Missile/Missile/Missile single turret. Fusion Bay 14 equals 5D6 plus medium range. Armor 8
Turn one, slight advantage Fiery. Assume no sensor locks the entire combat because the operators and gear are matched.
Assume it wins and fires all weapons. Gazelle fires the sandcasters and fires the beams at the same time because otherwise the beams are out of action. Fiery uses its thrust to skill chain the pilot's 1. The Fiery can use three actions--one for each weapon type, and still have two to dodge.
Fiery pilot chain chance is 2D6 +1 minus 8. .416 of a +1 for the gunner, however, .416 chance of a minus one or minus two for the gunner. Assume a wash on the fusion gun.
(Book one beam laser rules)
Gazelle choses to dodge and use both sandcasters on the fusion gun. It also dodges the beams. Gazelle dodge = 2D6+1 trying for 8+ (.583 chance of success). Exact same chance of success for the Fiery beam gunners if the Gazelle misses the dodge, otherwise Fiery only hits .277.
Gazelle sandcasters stop 1D6 of damage EACH .583 of the time. Assume on the first exchange Fiery fusion misses, following chance. One beam turret hits, one misses. .277 chance of any damage given the armor, assume one hit rolled on the external table at 2 points. .277 chance it will be a hull hit, followed by armor and turret at lesser percents. Assume a hull hit of 1 lowering the Gazelle to 7 hull points.
The Gazelle returns fire with two beams, both dodged. Same percentages. Assume one hits, but only .277 percent chance of making it through the armor, total.
Next round, luck is with the Fiery and its slight +1 again lets it go first. It reserves its beam turrets for point defense.
Same chances. Fusion barely misses.
Missiles also track in (one round late). Same pilot chain chances, gunnery check, assume turret had an effect 1-5. Dodging by Gazelle and point defense fire. .583 percent chance of -2. Gunnery point defense check to target missiles starts at .583 but falls off quickly.
Assume one gets through, hull hit, Gazelle has six left. One crewman radition damage.
This could just as easily been a miss.
Gazelle missiles resolved the same way, light damage.
Third round, Gazelle wins, light damage exchanged except the fusion gun hits.
5D6. Three single hits, two hull one armor. Hull now four, armor now seven.
Gazelle attempts to break off. It makes it or dies in the next three rounds
Slight advantage of the fusion gun is telling.
However, the exact same fight, with the gunners on the Gazelle and the pilot having skill two, totally change everything. The chances to dodge and hit now increase to almost 70%, and the Gazelle should win.
Of course, the same is true of the Fiery, but even more so. A pilot two and gunner two for just the fusion bay results on a triple hit on the first or second round. A second gunner two for the missiles gives two or even three hits on the second round.
Yes, I left something important out. The Gazelle has a computer rating of 20. It could run fire control 4, giving a +4 to (hopefully if the crew is smart) one of its missile shots. The Fiery can run fire control 5, giving it a +5 to the fusion gun bay. In that case, given skill level one crews, the Fiery lands a triple hit with two hull and one armor on round one, and also on round two (or two out of three missile hits the second and third round at a total of four hits on hull and armor and two crew hits per round).
The Gazelle gets one beam hit on round one and a second beam hit on round two, along with two missile hits for a missile total of four hits on hull and armor and two crew hits per round.
Skills: Gunner is most important, followed by pilot, followed by sensors, then leadership/tactics.
Computer rating is just as important.
Lesson--Having a big gun is important, but more so is the skill of the crewmen and the rating of the computer. In small ship combat, thrust 4 or more is important for the plus one/minus one it gives the ships. Armor is very important, 8 is the minimum, 10 would have been even better. Nuclear missles are useful, I did not game out smart missiles or basics because of the lesser damage.
Moving on past these small ships and using High Guard fully---If we used all of the High Guard rules, neither ship would use its beam lasers on the other until a second armor hit. The change to 1D6 means that a beam laster simply will not do damage to an 8 armor ship. In which case, the fight is a missile and fusion bay duel.
This also means that at armor 12 and above NO turret weapons will do damage so long as the ship has rad armor. The smallest offensive weapons that a destroyer escort and above should carry is a PA barbette, energy bay, or torpedo bay. A missle bay is worthless against a ship with armor 12+. For the same class, beam lasers should be restricted to point defense only, along with sandcasters.
Pulse lasers as just as bad, -2 to hit and short ranged.
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