How Much Grease?

[atpollard]

"It is hard to be critical when some of the poorest people in the world take small amounts of money from some of the richest people in the world to keep their families from starving."

In the real world, the poorer a country is the more widespread bribery is likely to be (a general but not universal truth - culture matters). In Traveller, that would probably be linked to TL and Starport Class (based on those exchange rate tables that appear from time to time). Perhaps something like '2 x TL' or 'TL squared' as the base cost per day to bypass those LL based 'you are doing nothing wrong' harassments.

Just an idea.

 

[Doyle Hunt]

II should also point out the bribery can work on a "higher" level than just slipping that beat cop a quick sawbuck. You can also bribe officials with gifts, "wining and dining", honorariums, campaign contributions, and other mechanisms. Bribery can work in all those situations.

An acquaintance of mine, who is much more widely traveled than I, had this to say on the subject of bribes in various third-world countries…

"Even if you don't smoke, take as many cartons of cigarettes as they will let you bring vthrough customs. Not Winstons or Marlboros, either— Kool Filter Kings usually work well, because they're hard to find outside the States but everyone has heard of them.

When you meet with an official and you take out your paperwork, make sure there is a pack in the same pocket, and take the cigarettes out to get at the papers. Lay the cigarettes in plain sight on the corner of the official's desk, and just ignore them. Don't mention them, don't look at them, and don't put them back in your pocket before you leave. The paperwork will go very smoothly, every time. Two cartons gives you twenty packs, and that's enough to get through most tourist visits abroad."

In the far future, it need not be cigarettes, but it should be a common, addictive, and most of all, LEGAL vice that you're helping to support. That way, no one can accuse you of a criminal act. You haven't "offered" anything, you just "accidentally" left your smokes behind. The official hasn't "accepted" anything; it would be a shame to throw the smokes away, so someone ought to get some use out of them. You haven't offended his dignity, and it's something he can share with his friends if he isn't the type to hoard his good fortune. You get off cheap, he gets a treat he couldn't get otherwise, everybody's happy. Sounds like a plan to me!

--Doyle
"The difference between a disaster and an adventure is, did you live to tell the tale?"

 

[Magnus von Thornwood]

Thanks.

Thanks Doyle, not sure when I might be in a third world country but at least now I know the rules.

 

[Doyle Hunt]

Thanks Doyle, not sure when I might be in a third world country but at least now I know the rules.

Not sure when I will be, either. Of course, since I live in southern Louisiana, it's like a third world country here at home, too.

The point was to present a real-world example of a successful bribery technique that can be adapted to the game. Not that my own unsubtle players would even grasp the concept of finesse; their idea of a bribe would be more on the order of "let me pass and I'll let you live!"

--Doyle
"The difference between a disaster and an adventure is, did you live to tell the tale?"

 

[Icosahedron]

For the ballpark:

Not only do you have to consider the value of the item you are smuggling (or whatever) but also the income of the official. A good rule of thumb might be to assess how much the official earns and set your bribes to match. eg. a gratuity (packet of smokes or equivalent value), a day's salary, a week's salary, a month's salary, etc.

I cannot imagine any official expecting more than a decade's salary for any 'service' he provides. Anything beyond that isn't a bribe, it's a business deal. After all, a decade's salary is likely to exceed the guy's legal life savings. This might serve to put the lid on those starship-related transactions.

What would YOU risk for a decade's salary straight in your pocket??

 

[jawillroy]

I cannot imagine any official expecting more than a decade's salary for any 'service' he provides. Anything beyond that isn't a bribe, it's a business deal. After all, a decade's salary is likely to exceed the guy's legal life savings. This might serve to put the lid on those starship-related transactions.

That's a good point.

Although!

Thinking in terms of a high law-level world, this might translate into some very serious restrictions on who can trade with whom. The fellow you have to bribe might not be some poor schlep of a clerk: he might be a high local official who -of course- cannot permit you to sell your goods here yourself, but! Were he made an instrumental party to the transaction, why then there would be no problem at all. In other words, the bribe might be a business deal - either you cut Minister Lord Dzergenev in on the deal, or there's no deal at all.

 

[Gadrin]

During the course of my games (both refereed and solitaire) it nearly always becomes necessary to employ Bribery skill, and I almost never know how much the bribe ought to be.

What do you figure?

Okay, you asked for it

When I use it in LBB2 trade, I assume there's a kickback involved, and I just assume it to be wrapped up in the final cost (rather than the fussy LBB7 way.)

But when you're walking down the street, minding your own business, and miss your law roll?

What about when you've been walking down the street, minding your own business, packing an illegal weapon, and miss your law roll?

What about when you've been walking down the street, minding your own business, discharging an illegal weapon in city limits, and miss your law roll?

Supposing you're in the process of passing goods through customs and miss your law roll? What kind of grease do you use there? A fifty? Fifty thousand?

I relinquish the floor and await in rapt fascination.

Well, actually to me as GM, that's not how to handle Bribery.

I'd look at the skill-level and then apply my imagination to that:

Bribery-0: "Duh, how's about I slip you a 20?"

Bribery-1: "What's it going to take to..."

Bribery-2: Someone who's done this enough times. He'll think ahead. He can't cover every situation, but has an idea of what to expect. "Hey, is there someplace we can talk ?"

Bribery-3: As 2 but knows more. Should be very slick.

Bribery-4: Not only knows most of the customs techniques, but incorporates other types of ploys into his own shenanigans, such as bomb threats and so forth. He won't bother trying to bribe people who can't be bought. He'll setup his plan before he tries to walk thru the door with the goods.

Bribery-5: much like 4, but may go on the offensive, such as blackmail or setting up a customs agent to look like they did something wrong. Records transactions so that if he's caught or if someone finds out, it's not in the best interest of authorities to pursue the matter.

Occaisionally random encounters will simply defy the logic of the encounter. The guy with Bribery-4 won't be a sitting duck most of the time and won't fall into obvious traps, unless of course, the GM puts him in them.

Great Law & Order: Criminal Intent ep called Pas De Deux where they rob banks but carry fake bombs strapped to themselves to make it look like they were co-erced into performing this illegal act. I'd say your Bribery-4+ guys could use that type of approach so that when the goods are found, they also find a bomb or a damning note (ransom: "we have your kid, do this or else..."), etc, etc. No you can't fool the real people who do this for a living, but GMs are often suckers for good PC ploys


Just my 2 cents...

>

 

[Icosahedron]

That's a good point.

Although!

Thinking in terms of a high law-level world, this might translate into some very serious restrictions on who can trade with whom. The fellow you have to bribe might not be some poor schlep of a clerk: he might be a high local official who -of course- cannot permit you to sell your goods here yourself, but! Were he made an instrumental party to the transaction, why then there would be no problem at all. In other words, the bribe might be a business deal - either you cut Minister Lord Dzergenev in on the deal, or there's no deal at all.

That's when your bribery skill is used to determine the size of his cut.

 

[epicenter00]

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned another part of bribing:

O Plata o Plomo?

Your ex-Imperial Marines Special Forces Anserin (with some suitably terrifying reputation) calmly listens to the customs official read off the litany of problems. Then he nods and reaches into his coat to pull out his wallet. On the way, his sleeve "happens" to fall back to show the Imperial Sunburst and Skull brand of his infamous unit from the last Frontier War and seals it by showing the gauss pistol and the blackened and serrated knife that the Zhodani referred to as the "Silencer" that they used to slit throats during stealth ops. Just as the official is staring at that, his partner (the slim Solomani woman and pickpocket) gives the customs official back his wallet, "Hey, you dropped this."

Then the Anserin reveals the photo of the official's family from the wallet and hands it back to the guy, "It looks like this dropped out, too. Nice children, may they grow happy and healthy" with 350 Cr under it.

 

[Fritz_Brown]

Gadrin - very CT of you. Very nice solution: elegant and simple. Though it might take a failry desperate situation to do the "bomb strapped to the chest" thing.... :nonono:

epicenter - very good point (and well told!). Sort of a multi-front approach.

jawillroy, I would take a look at the size of business transactions in YTU, and figure it from that base, with appropriate multiplications for LL, TL, and Gov codes. You don't want to break your PCs (normally) for most transactions, but you don't want that critical plot hook to be too out of line with previous experiences.

So, figure out how much will be willingly tossed away by your characters on the simple stuff and how much will cause them great and grevious pain on the important stuff (but is still doable). That would be your normal range. Now, when the plot hook comes along, you just nudge it over that upper threshold a bit......... :devil:

 

[jawillroy]

Aha!

So, what I hear is free from OTU or ANY TU.

Q: What does a bribe cost>?

A: Whatever the GM need it to!

 

[JustinInOz]

Realworld examples

I never understood bribery and corruption until recently. I say bribery and corruption because I seem them to be manifestations of the same thing.

I was in Java and chatting to a moneychanger after we had transacted. He was a bit of a philosopher and had something to say. I was not in a hurry so I listened. Among other things, the image of a corpulent money changer waving a fistful of bills in one hand saying “My parents taught me many things, one thing that this is not everything.” had to be seen to be believed.

He pointed out that the real cause of corruption was not how much people earned or how moral they were, but the differential between the top and the bottom. A minister of government earns 10,000 Aus Dollars a month. The minimum wage was just over 100 dollars a month. This differential is 100. That means that the amount of money the top tier have easily available is many months salary for the bottom. He gave me the example of a friend of his who was a teacher. He had 10 years experience and was earning 150 dollars a month. A stupid child of a wealthy government official wanted to get into the school that the teacher was working at. He was not qualified for admittance. He offered the teacher what was 6 months wages to admit the child. This six months wages meant that the teacher could send his own child to university. What would anybody do?

This was like a lightening bolt to me. The bottom wages in Australia is roughly 25,000 dollars a year. The top you earn before the wages go stratospheric is about 250,000 dollars. This means that the very rich (and top government ministers earn less than the 250k) earn 10 times what the bottom earn. They do not have enough loose cash around to simply buy people outright. The wage differential simply is not there. The only (obvious) place that corruption exists in Australia is in the drug squad of the police. This is an example where there IS such a differential. There is so much money in illegal drugs that there is enough cash available to be splashed out and have a morally corrosive affect. Police in Melbourne are being investigated for passing on the details of a witness to drug trials. The witness and his wife were killed in their house shortly afterwards.

What is the appropriate bribe? I would say 2-3 days wages where bribes are simply part of doing business. This is where the recipient of the bribe does not really have to “do” anything out of the normal. Where they have to commit some act, I would say 2-3 months wages. Where they have to do something which can cause risk to them probably 6 months wages is an appropriate bribe. This is taking after the example of the teacher risking getting the sack from their school.

Lastly, a rule of thumb, never let them take you back to the station. If you do, you have to bribe/take care of everyone from the duty sergeant on down. The less moving parts the better. Keep it simple; supplement the wages of the beat cop.

On first inspection, the places that these kinds of wage differentials exist in Traveller are between low-tech worlds and high-tech visitors. Taking the difference between “low-tech credits” and “high-tech credits” you pretty easily get opportunities for corruption. Another instance is mega corporations; they have the economic means to corrupt almost any planetary official.

I hope this helps.

 

[CosmicGamer]

As pointed out in other posts, often a bribe is just part of doing business in certain countries/professions. It is expected and common.

Why do we tip certain workers and not others? It is common and expected. In a way it is a bribe: If you give me good service I will leave you a tip.

Bribery is like a tip - you just pay prior to getting service. Here is a tip now give me good service.

Not always.

 

[Icosahedron]

Good point, Justin. At a quick guess, comparing a recent quote of Gordon Brown's 200kpa (though corporate fatcats earn much more) with my neighbour's 10k, I'd say the UK differential is around 20. (does that make us linearly twice as corrupt as you?)

However, there are other aspects of corruption, the most famous, of course, being power. A lot depends on who holds the power, and what the 'power differential' is. You might live in a location where the police can just whisk you or your significant others off to the torture cells - that makes an effective bribe. OTOH, you might live in a location where gangs and crime bosses have free reign and offer you 'protection' in return for certain favours, or you might live somewhere dominated by corporate greed, where employers can threaten the livelihood of anyone who doesn't toe the line.

Plus of course there's sexual bribery, blackmail... Money is by no means the only form of persuasion, or corruption.

 

[Magnus von Thornwood]

*giggling*

This stuff is priceless!

Now as for the Melbourne PD-Narcotics Squad, while they are a bunch of scumbags suitable for feeding fishes, it's nice to see that the bloody vice wars are the same all over the world, even the vaunted 1st world. I mean that sounds like the kind of thing I would expect from LAPD or NYPD, I had hoped that it was just us...sorta. Now I have to wonder are the Mounties having to deal with this issue as well? And by the way, I really do like the police, was even gonna try and be one....RL said otherwise, but I did get some nice college books out of it, but I have a Paladin Complex at times. This means that once again I hope and pray that someone gets that we need to give our individual Cops that catch Bad Cops Units yet more cash to do their jobs, lot more.

As for tips, never quite thought of them that way....I mean my mom and an ex of mine both waitressed, don't like to think of my loved ones as being bribed...especially mom, what with all the good and true Citizen crap I got stuffed with as a kid. Still as a grown up (no it's true, really ) I can see the logic of the statement, still don't like it as it implies I am bribing....grrrr.

 

[mbrinkhues]

Actually bribery on a small scale happens all the time:

+ Studends giving a "thank you" box of chocolates to the studends secretary

+ The contractor inviting the client to lunch after a contract was signed as well as at the end (and sometimes during) the contract

+ Vendors making a "donation" for the christmas staff party

+ Vendors/Large contractors inviting high ranking client officials to a top rate football match

+ Vendors offering "conferences" in well-placed and high-class locations that always go Wednesday to Monday

+The pantyhose for the maid in the East-European or Yugoslawian tourist resort back in the 1970s ensuring good service

+ Free pizza/coffee/doughnuts for the patrol officers so they drive by a bit more often than necessary

+ Labeling the street-stub where the major lives a "necessary turning/unloading place that needs to be build-up" when bidding for a road contract on the nearby primary road

+ Coffee for the easily-irritated Russian 2IC.

It's all bribery.

==================

The Dogs of War has a beautiful bribery scene early in the film when Christopher Walken is on the "recon" mission

 

[aramis]

Actually bribery on a small scale happens all the time:

+ Studends giving a "thank you" box of chocolates to the studends secretary

+ The contractor inviting the client to lunch after a contract was signed as well as at the end (and sometimes during) the contract

Generally permissable in the US; if total value is $50+, it's a taxable income, and in Alaska, prohibited if over $50.

+ Vendors making a "donation" for the christmas staff party

+ Vendors/Large contractors inviting high ranking client officials to a top rate football match

Both are not permitted under Alaska law.

+ Vendors offering "conferences" in well-placed and high-class locations that always go Wednesday to Monday

Permitted, but the conference costs are taxable income...

+The pantyhose for the maid in the East-European or Yugoslawian tourist resort back in the 1970s ensuring good service

That's Yugoslavia...

+ Free pizza/coffee/doughnuts for the patrol officers so they drive by a bit more often than necessary

The officials get popped in Alaska for accepting such. An APD officer isn't even allowed to accept a glass of water from a friend while on duty. They are required to order their meals without discounts on the ticket, so the cooks don't know. This all changed since a certain Chief of Police was "retired"... he just got fired from the State by Governor Palin... for having ethical issues.

Since he left APD, corruption is visibly reduced. Used to be one could buy off a ticket with a gram of pot....

+ Coffee for the easily-irritated Russian 2IC.

It's all bribery.

Yup. But not all of it is ethical in the US...

 

[Doyle Hunt]

It's all bribery, all right, and the US Federal Government even has rules about how much a Government drone can accept before he gets called on the carpet for it! I work for a Federal agency that will remain nameless for now. We have to attend madatory ethics training every year to learn what gratuities will get us in trouble to accept, and what gratuities won't.

I've never knowingly gone over my limit (standard disclaimer in case Uncle Sam is reading my mail), but I have accepted small gratuities from contractors from time to time. So have about half the folks in my office. For the contractors, it's all part of the cost of doing business. Since the most common legally-allowable gratuity is a small gift, they tend to have the company logo on them, and can be written off as legitimate advertising expenses.

Isn't it nice to know that the starport functionary you're trying to bribe has been TRAINED in the proper way to accept a bribe? Isn't it even nicer to see that he's wearing that Tukera Lines cap and drinking from an Al Morai coffee mug? What is the struggling almost-broke Free Trader going to offer him that he can't get from the corporates just as easily for less risk?

 

[Fritz_Brown]

So, what I hear is free from OTU or ANY TU.

Q: What does a bribe cost>?

A: Whatever the GM need it to!

Yup - pretty much!

He pointed out that the real cause of corruption was not how much people earned or how moral they were, but the differential between the top and the bottom. A minister of government earns 10,000 Aus Dollars a month. The minimum wage was just over 100 dollars a month. This differential is 100. That means that the amount of money the top tier have easily available is many months salary for the bottom.

But, culture has a lot to do with it, as well. Some places (primarily, not western, Judeo-Christian cultures with their "rule of law" concept) it's just not considered theft or corruption. In those places, actually, the "tips" may be lower, since it's just a part of doing business, with little associated risk.

+ The contractor inviting the client to lunch after a contract was signed as well as at the end (and sometimes during) the contract

Not in US Federal government contracting. Technically, I can't even give a govie (an actual government employee, or "blue-suiter" if they are US Air Force) a ride in my rental car while on travel, as it would be providing a service to the government not covered by contract - and, therefore, a possible gift/bribe.

 

[Doyle Hunt]

Not in US Federal government contracting. Technically, I can't even give a govie (an actual government employee, or "blue-suiter" if they are US Air Force) a ride in my rental car while on travel, as it would be providing a service to the government not covered by contract - and, therefore, a possible gift/bribe.

The ride isn't actually forbidden because it's a possible gift/bribe. It's forbidden because it's a possible contract service that you could later submit a claim for, and the Government would have to fork over for it. Uncle tends to get really uptight when we obligate him to spend money without authorization. "Ethics" and "Procuement Ethics" are different sets of rules. It's complicated.

Oddly enough, if you weren't under contract at the time, you probably COULD offer a ride legally, for example if you and a government employee are attending the same seminar, and you offered him a ride from the airport to the hotel. In this case, there's no question that you as a person are offering a gratuity to another individual, rather than you as a contractor offering a contractual service to the Government that wasn't already negotiated.

They'd probably refuse the ride, though. We're all too gun-shy from our annual ethics training, and hearing horror stories about people getting demoted or fired for accepting a $35 bottle of wine.