CT Only: How To Reconcile TL?

[Supplement Four]

This is something that I've wrestled with for years with Traveller. I've never come to a satisfactory stance on the issue.

Let's say a Player Character is from Ruie in the Regina subsector. The planet lies just outside of Imperial space, is an Amber Zone, and is TL 7 with a C class starport.

The player wants to go into the Navy, and the Ref pulls out Book 5. The Ref decides that the Ruie System Defense Force is the only navy available to the character (as Ruie is not in the Imperium and not part of a star cluster for a subsector navy).

Ruie meets the bare minimum requirements for a planetary navy according to Book 5.

The roll is made, and the player successfully creates a Naval character. The PC goes three terms.



All this guy knows is TL 7 equipment!

According to the tech chart in TTB, TL 7 is equivalent tech to the 1970's. Maximum is Model 2 computers. According to the chart, only non-starships are available--so this character has zero experience with Jump drives.

Grav vehicle are not yet available, which means that the space craft that the character has spent 12 years serving on might not have grav plates or acceleration compensation.

Let's say the character has Electronics-1, Engineering-2, Gunnery-1, Ship's Boat-1 among his skills.



Can this character fix the electronics on a TL 13 Free Trader?

Is his Engineering skill at all helpful on the Free Trader?

Does his gunnery skill help him at all with a Free Trader's laser turrets?

Can his Ship's Boat skill allow him to pilot the ship's launch?



We don't record the character's personal TL.

We seem to ignore that--skip right over it.

Thoughts?

 

[aramis]

When I played CT, I presumed every PC was from a TL12 world or higher... unless the player decided otherwise, or the PC was a barbarin

 

[BlackBat242]

Hm.... I must be not feeling well, as I agree with Aramis on a CT issue!
Well, mostly. Unless otherwise specified, it was assumed that the PC was from a technologically-sophisticated system at some point before beginning their career.

I never really used the "planetary Navy" bit - at worst I ruled a PC was in a subsector fleet (if necessary, the PC travelled from their home system to reach a multi-system Navy for enlistment). Often, the PC was able to join up when a mobile recruiting team visited the backwater homeworld (or a ride was hitched with a small merchant vessel, etc).


I did, however, have the player either determine the PC's home system (and use its TL) or note whatever "native TL" was rolled for the PC. This went on the character sheet under "base TL", next to the PC's "functional TL".

I assumed that there would be some sort of "prep school for the technologically-disadvantaged" that the services (including merchant lines/corporations) ran for low-base-TL PCs that passed the enlistment roll. The operating TL of the service would be determined, and I would add 1 year per 2 TL deficit to the PC's first year of career to account for educating the PC on the higher TL used.



After all, various organizations seem to do well introducing cell phones, laptops, etc into remote bush villages without any electrical supply (via solar charging stations & satellite links) and relatively uneducated populations.

 

[creativehum]

A variation on aramis' response:

What do you need the starting situation to be -- and then start and build from there.

Given that your analysis is correct, the question is:
Does the character having the homeworld of Ruie work for what you need?
If not, why is he from Ruie?
Some players might want the challenger of a character who is limited. Others do not. Some campaigns dont' work that way.

All these random rolls are not there to simulate an actual, living breathing society in space as if it going to model all the gears of reality meshing. It is a bunch of details to get an RPG session in motion to have fun with Science Fiction Adventure in the Far Future.

 

[robject]

STORY #1: A working-poor son of ranchers, growing up near Tolar, Texas in the 1960s. Assume that that part of Texas had a production system around TL4, and that mostly in repairs.

The military branches are drafting for Vietnam. Rather than wait until the Army or Marines draft him to front-line infantry, he wisely signs up for the Air Force.

In his 20 years of service, the boy from Tolar now works on advanced combat aircraft and military telecommunications systems in various countries (Japan, Germany, Taiwain).

He finds a wife in Taiwain. He retires from the USAF, and starts a second career with a military contracting company (because now he has specialized technical knowledge). 20 more years of work, then a comfortable retirement.


STORY #2: A daughter of a trucker in rural Oklahoma in the 1950s has read every book in their town's tiny library before she hits high school. The town doesn't really produce anything; they do have auto garages, so call them TL5. If you're generous you might call them TL6, but you might be wrong.

She goes to a university a few hours away (a math degree). Upon graduation, she flees to Boeing in Seattle, and thence to NASA in Houston, where she programs computers for the Gemini program.



Did either of them have to know that stuff beforehand? No. Do they know it now? Yes.

Even if not heroic, the traveller character is unusual.

 

[Supplement Four]

Hm.... I must be not feeling well, as I agree with Aramis on a CT issue!

I do too.

Starting the PCs on a high tech world seems to be the answer.





The Navy, Oh The Navy...

On a slightly different note, it seems that many Imperial Citizens who want to be Travellers have the Imperial Navy as their only option.

I usually allow Imperial Navy enlistment if the homeworld has an Imperial Naval Base.

The locals would look at the TL 15 Base as their ticket to the big time. No matter what the world's TL is, the Base is most likely the highest tech around. And, the Imperial Navy is their ticket off that rock.

Otherwise, they're stuck at the homeworld TL.







EDU AND TL

Thinking about the TL issue, I think a good rule to use might be this: Characters have personal TL's either from their homeworld (as with the Army) or their career (as with the Imperial Navy).

If a character has to deal with tech that is higher than his personal TL, then that's up to the Ref whether its possible.

If a roll is made, I think a modifier for the character's EDU should be used, if it is higher than the tech attempted.

For example, let's take our TL 7 Ruie guy. He's attempting to operate some TL 10 equipment. He has EDU 13. This means that he'd get a +3 modifier to operate the TL 10 equipment correctly.



Or...

Should a character's personal TL be his EDU level or his career/homeworld TL, whichever is higher?

 

[Supplement Four]

Did he have to know that stuff beforehand? No. Does he know it now? Yes.

I generally agree with this. It's basically what I said above. The personal TL is determined by the character's homeworld or his career.

I was noting that the subsector Navy is set at the level of the subsector capital. In the Aramis subsector, that's TL 13, IIRC.

Planetary navies are set at the TL of the homeworld, so a character would not get a change from his homeworld TL there.

And, the Army TL would be set at the TL of the homeworld, too.

 

[Supplement Four]

Travellers



In thinking about this, we all agree that most Imperial Citizens don't leave their homeworlds--that Travellers are a special and new role in society.

One of the factors this is true is cost.

But, also, another factor is TL, especially in the boonies, like the Spinward Marches, where TL's are low.

'Dems your backwoods, never-leave-your-homeworld, people.

 

[robject]

"Well, if there's a bright center to the universe, you're on the planet that it's farthest from."

 

[Supplement Four]

Book 1 Implied TL


I dig this conversation, btw.


Since all PCs generated with Book 1 can use the weapons in that book as default skills, this implies a minimum TL for PCs generated with those rules.

The highest level weapon in that book is TL 9. Therefore, PCs from Book 1 must be at least TL 9 with their personal TL, either through career or homeworld.

Turn turn this around, maybe a Traveller has to have a minimum TL 9 understanding in order to successfully cross the spaceways?

Of course, I see no problem with a TL 4 rich character who buys his way to various worlds. That's just not your typical Traveller.



Because of tech bleed, I still think EDU should be considered for personal TL. Maybe we pick the highest, from homeworld, EDU, or career.





CAREER TL

Imperial Navy = TL 15
Subsector Navy = Subsector Capital's TL, min TL 9
Planetary Navy = Homeworld TL, min TL 7

Imperial Marines = TL 15
Marines = Homeworld TL

Army = Homeworld TL

Scouts = TL 15?

Merchants = Homeport TL or Vessel TL?

Other = Homeworld TL

 

[Supplement Four]

Starports



If we cross-reference services with the tech chart in TTB, we can figure minimum TL for a starport, regardless of the local TL.

I would say use the minimum below if the local world TL is lower than the minimum TL for that starport class. Otherwise, use the world's TL.

Special consideration goes to Naval Bases (and possibly Scout Bases) as they are TL 15. But, this doesn't mean that the starport is also TL 15.



Class A Starport = min TL 9.

Class B Starport = min TL 8.

Class C Starport = min TL 7.

Class D Starport = min TL 5.

Class E Starport = no min.

Class X Starport = no min.





EDIT: The DGP World Builder's Guide (I can't find this in Grand Census/Survey) goes with these starport minimums....

Class A = TL 10

Class B = TL 9

Class C = TL 8

Class D = TL 7

Class E = TL 6

Class X = TL 0

 

[Supplement Four]

ARAMIS SUBSECTOR


If you are on the fringe of the Imperium, and you want to purchase a new starship, you are limited to TL 11.

And, it looks like the world of Aramis has almost a monopoly on starships in this subsector.

Aramis can produce TL 11 starships, with max Model 5 computers and maximum drive letter K.

The Naval bases on Aramis, L' oeul d'Dieu, and Natoko can produce TL 15 Imperial Naval vessels, but do not do civilian ships.

This means that the best vessel that money can buy in the entire Aramis subsector is a TL 11, maximum 2,000 ton starship.





Paya is the only other world in the Aramis subsector that has the facilities to build starships. These vessels are TL 9, max model 3 computer, max drive letter D, and max tonnage of 800 tons.

 

[creativehum]

The Navy, Oh The Navy...

On a slightly different note, it seems that many Imperial Citizens who want to be Travellers have the Imperial Navy as their only option.

I usually allow Imperial Navy enlistment if the homeworld has an Imperial Naval Base.

The locals would look at the TL 15 Base as their ticket to the big time. No matter what the world's TL is, the Base is most likely the highest tech around. And, the Imperial Navy is their ticket off that rock.

Otherwise, they're stuck at the homeworld TL.

I'm not saying you are wrong -- you should run your game any way you want.

But the above notion is one of the saddest things ever.

A teen could stow away on a tramp freighter and the captain could spare him when caught. A child could become a camp follower of a merc company and leave with the mercs because he proved himself useful. The son or daughter of a leader of a low tech world might be part of an entourage sent to visit imperial nobles, be captured by pirates, enslaved months from home, escape, join a service for survival with no contacts and no way of tapping resources dozens of light years awa... muster out, then try to either seek vengeance or make his or her way home.

The number of compelling and unique ways these outsiders of normal life could become Travellers is infinite, and, in my view, can and should often be as compelling as the stories of characters from a novel by Robert Louis Stevenson or Alexandre Dumas.

That's me, of course. And I own it plainly. But the notion that a traveller needs to, or is limited by, some sort of treadmill of logical production is the exact opposite of what I would expect the background of many a traveller.

I suppose I should add that while Book 5 introduces the notion of a PC's "homeworld" such a thing doesn't exist in earlier Books. -- so I have never thought much about it. A character's backstory is simply, and without mechanical constraints, invented to create some thing the Player finds compelling.

Moreover, a character might be from the section of space where the game takes place -- or they might be from a much more civilized core and travelled to a place like the Spinward Marches (or any other remote frontier of a Referee's invention) for fame, vengeance, fortune, scientific curiosity, avoiding troubles from the past, and so on. So whatever the homeworld of the PC it doesn't really matter -- because it is far away, back "that way," and will have little influence as a piece of geography in play.

 

[kilemall]

This stuff will drive you crazy.

Well, one easy way to consider it is to follow through on that idea that the lettered drive/plant types are standard plug and play types that the character is familiar with so their Engineering skill deals with it, they just won't necessarily be up to working on TL15 'custom' LBB5 drives.

One mechanic I have that most people don't is 'familiarization'.

The idea is that once you know Engineering or Electronics or Pilot that the job is similar, but details can trip you up in the vast differences between TL7 and TL15.

So you may know TL7 Engineering, but you want to work on TL15 equipment- there is a note on the character saying they are familiar with TL7 standard A/B/C equipment, and then they 'learn' TL15 drives at an accelerated rate (something like the Instruction speeds) and work their way up.

Prime example I can think of- Leonardo da Vinci, Mechanical-6, isn't going to be able to fix a modern-day car motor/transmission, etc. straight from his workshop.

Give him some time, youtube videos, tools and books to study, and I'm guessing he will get up to speed very very quickly.

This is part of my whole 'squash cascade' jihad, builds backstory into the characters, gives players something to learn and feel they advanced their character without upsetting the whole skill apple cart.

Useful for instance in Gun Combat- my characters usually just have Gun Combat-3 for instance, but are familiar with whatever weapons they use/practice with. They don't get the full GC-3 on everything, just GC-3 on their fave, GC-2 on the next and GC-1 on infrequent arms and GC-0 for everything else. They change what they practice with and that can change, but the basic advanced ability with guns remains.

 

[McPerth]

I always assumed that the character's trained TL was that of his world or that of his career, depening on the career taken.

CAREER TL

Imperial Navy = TL 15
Subsector Navy = Subsector Capital's TL, min TL 9
Planetary Navy = Homeworld TL, min TL 7

Imperial Marines = TL 15
Marines = Homeworld TL

Army = Homeworld TL

Scouts = TL 15?

Merchants = Homeport TL or Vessel TL?

Other = Homeworld TL

While I mostly agree with your table here, I'd make some comments on it:

Marines: how can you know if the marines were Imperial, Subsector or planetary?

See that even advanced CharGen makes no difference on it, and in no game other marines tan Imperial appear. So, I always considered that the Marien Career was the Imperial ones, while other Mariens, if they esxist, would be considered Army, but trained in protected forces or similar.

As for Merchants, as all skills are learned during the career, I'd say the skills TL are from the ship TL, that I'd say aTL 12-13 (average Imperial) in basic CharGen and TL15 for larger lines and varable (but tending to 12-13) for smaller ones in advanced CharGen.

So, the character you gave in the OP has enginer 2- WHere did he learn it? in his planet army or Wet Navy? in the IN? in the Merchants? Unless the first option, I'd say he can easily fix a starship, as he learned the engineering by doing so.

 

[Garnfellow]

I think unless a character grew up on an interdicted low tech world -- and not necessarily even then -- they will probably understand the basics of Imperial tech. They will know there are amazing things available elsewhere, they will probably have heard about gravitics, jump drives, robots, cloning, geneering. Their knowledge is probably comparable to our knowledge as players in the OTU.

How much does the average inhabitant of a TL15 world really understand about the tech all around them? I can use a smart phone but I couldn't repair one without a guide and sure as heck couldn't design one.

A citizen from a low tech world certainly has some disadvantages compared to one from a high tech world, but these are surmountable with experience and training. I could see low techers becoming even better with tech items because of the extra motivation and curiosity, while most high techers are content that their magic junk just works.

 

[rhialto]

My default assumption has always been basic starfaring TL (9+) as the minimum, with me telling the players what the highest TL the setting has available (I usually play TL11 or 12, non-3I). Anyone is free to specify their homeworld, but it is only used for background hooks, never to set limits on the character (unless the player elects to use such a limit on their own).

I know that doesn't help you reconcile the issue you've raised in the way you're currently approaching it, but it is a different way to resolve it.

 

[Supplement Four]

But the above notion is one of the saddest things ever.

LOL!

You know, I think you've made me realize that I do take a default grim view of the Traveller universe.

I think I think of the frontier and the Spinward Marches because that's where I've run the vast majority of my games over the decades. I can't remember the last time I ran a game close to the heart of the Imperium. maybe never. I know I've played in some Solomani Confederacy games, but, heck, that was 40 years ago.

A teen could stow away on a tramp freighter and the captain could spare him when caught. A child could become a camp follower of a merc company and leave with the mercs because he proved himself useful. The son or daughter of a leader of a low tech world might be part of an entourage sent to visit imperial nobles, be captured by pirates, enslaved months from home, escape, join a service for survival with no contacts and no way of tapping resources dozens of light years awa... muster out, then try to either seek vengeance or make his or her way home.

The number of compelling and unique ways these outsiders of normal life could become Travellers is infinite, and, in my view, can and should often be as compelling as the stories of characters from a novel by Robert Louis Stevenson or Alexandre Dumas.

Absolutely. I agree 100%. And, I would allow such background stories in my game.

But, what you are referring to are exceptions. I was talking in generalities, as in, "You need a college education to succeed." I know people who are successes who don't have a college education, but, in general, stats show that college educated folks make more money (if that's how I'm defining success) than those who don't go to college.

The Imperial Navy seems to be the only hope for a lot of Imperial Citizens who wish to leave their homeworld, especially if that homeworld is low tech.

Sure, exceptions like stowing away on a Free Trader or being a Merc company groupie exist. I agree.

I suppose I should add that while Book 5 introduces the notion of a PC's "homeworld" such a thing doesn't exist in earlier Books. -- so I have never thought much about it.

I freakin' loved MT when it came out. This was before my fall from grace back into the ever lovin' clutches of CT.

And, when I first read MT, I was impressed by all the work the Player's book did with a character's homeworld. It could be generic, or a specific, selected world. A character got background skills based on that world's characteristics. And, homeworld and homeworld TL became important in character generation.

I guess that's left its mark on me.

 

[mike wightman]

TL and relative effects of TL are setting specific.

In a game I ran the players were from current Earth TL7.# and had to learn how to operate high TL stuff. Fortunately for them most of the stuff was smart and could help them out a bit - it was the stuff who learned their language no the other way around.

In the Third Imperium setting TL15 has been common for over a hundred years, experimental for several centuries before that. It started life as a mature TL12 culture. The machines/computers/robots are so smart they make operation no harder than using a couple of apps on today's smartphones. Everyone born on an Imperial world will be able to use Imperial standard equipment because the equipment itself makes it so simple.

Piloting a starship is likely to be no more demanding than playing a space sim like Elite.

 

[Supplement Four]

Marines: how can you know if th emarines were Imperial, Subsector or planetary?

Just thinking out loud.

These are Ref tweaks, anyway, open to any specific Ref's interpretation.

As for Merchants, as all skills are learned during the career, I'd say the skills TL are from the ship TL, that I'd say aTL 12-13 (average Imeprial) in basic CharGen and TL15 for larger lines and varable (but tending to 12-13) for smaller ones in advanced CharGen.

Merchants are hard, because they are always travelling and are exposed to many different environments.

They spend most time on their ship, though. So, that sounds like the constant. Their career TL is that of their ship--that's what they are used to. And, their ship TL is probably the same as their home port TL.



DON'T LEAVE THE FRONT YARD.

Like people, I speculate that ships in the Traveller universe don't generally go that far, relatively speaking. They probably stick around the same subsector (or a few subsectors for larger ships). I doubt it is economical to send ships across sectors and have them return years later.

PCs, of course, are a different breed. Adventurers. And, the exception.

So, the character you gave in the OP has enginer 2- WHere did he learn it? in his planet army or Wet Navy? in the IN? in the Merchants? Unless the first option, I'd say he can easily fix a starship, as he learned the engineering by doing so.

I think you missed some of the detail of the OP. The character is in a planetary navy, in his own solar system. He learned Engineer skill at TL 7.