imperial marine combat battalion

[flykiller]

marine combat battalion

the 19000 dton alice-class transports carry 4900 dton cargo modules to supply the fleet. some of these modules are outfitted to carry one battalion of combined arms fleet marines and navy support for use in limited small-scale operations as needed. the unit is fully mounted and has ew, drone, and armor capability, along with some specialty units for drones, eod, and sniping. it also has organic front-line ambulance, medical, and maintenance and recovery support. notably the unit lacks submarines and meson screens. large-scale fire support is provided by an overhead cherry-class destroyer deploying a factor 9 beam laser battery.

every individual in the unit has available 0.5 dtons for combat gear, a 0.5 dton personal lowberth, and 3 dtons of other living space separate from office, work, supply, long-term endurance cargo, unit assembly, and other spaces. holobooth facilities enable discreet individual or simultaneous interactive training and practice for up to 60 individuals - one platoon.

fleet marine combat battalion

marine battalion hq
cmnd 65M
offc 2sc
s1   2sc
s2   3Ss
s3   4FS
s4   3Ss

A Co infantry
14 hueys                  (infantry transport gigs - see link to deckplans below)
32FSc[s][C][CfPf]         ([s]-co comms, [C]-co medic, [CfPf]-mech/elec techs)
1plt 1Sp[c][P]            ([c]-plt comms, [P]-plt medic
1sqd s cppp cppp cppp[pf] ([pf]-sqd comms, sqd medic)
2sqd s cppp cppp cppp[pf]
3sqd s cppp cppp cppp[pf]
4sqd s cpp  cpp [Pff]     (cpp-tacmiss, cpp-fgmp14, [Pff]-comp/weap/armr techs)
2plt 1Sp[c][P]
1sqd s cppp cppp cppp[pf]
2sqd s cppp cppp cppp[pf]
3sqd s cppp cppp cppp[pf]
4sqd s cpp  cpp [Pff]
3plt 1Sp[c][P]
1sqd s cppp cppp cppp[pf]
2sqd s cppp cppp cppp[pf]
3sqd s cppp cppp cppp[pf]
4sqd s cpp  cpp [Pff]

B Co infantry
14 hueys
32FSc[s][C][CfPf]
1plt 1Sp[c][P]
1sqd s cppp cppp cppp[pf]
2sqd s cppp cppp cppp[pf]
3sqd s cppp cppp cppp[pf]
4sqd s cpp  cpp [Pff]
2plt 1Sp[c][P]
1sqd s cppp cppp cppp[pf]
2sqd s cppp cppp cppp[pf]
3sqd s cppp cppp cppp[pf]
4sqd s cpp  cpp [Pff]
3plt 1Sp[c][P]
1sqd s cppp cppp cppp[pf]
2sqd s cppp cppp cppp[pf]
3sqd s cppp cppp cppp[pf]
4sqd s cpp  cpp [Pff]

C Co armor
6 AFV's                   ("tanks" - see link to deckplans below)
ateam 3p[ww] sp[ww]       ([ww] - assigned navy flight officers)
bteam 1p[ww] sp[ww]
cteam Fp[ww] sp[ww]

D Co special teams
2 hueys
cmnd 3F
exod 1S scpp scpp scpp
snip 1S scpp scpp scpp

E Co electro-magnetic spectrum
3 ew gigs                 (see deckplans link below)
cmnd 32F
ew   1S
     scp[ww] scp[ww] scp[ww]
comm 1S
 ACo(s cppp cppp cppp)    (deployed with A Co)
 BCo(s cppp cppp cppp)    (deployed with B Co)
     s cppp cppp          (assigned as needed)
ops  1S
     scc scc scc          (combat operations center)
bots 1S
     scpp scpp scpp       (drone operations)



navy combat support department

navy dept hq
cmnd 54M
offc 2CP
s1   1CP
s2   2CP
s3   3CP
s4   2CP
ops  2C
     Pf Pf Pf             (naval operations center)

maintenance division
2 cargo, 2 hueys, 2 gig recovery vehicles
offc    3CP
general 1C
  mech  (C) Pff Pff(Pff)  ((Pff) - deployed with infantry) 
  elec  (C) Pff Pff(Pff)
  comp   C  Pff(Pff Pff)
combat  1C
  weap   C  Pff(Pff Pff)
  armr   C (Pff Pff Pff)  (one Pff team deployed on ambulances)
boats   1C Pff Pff Pff

medical division
3 ambulances              (see deckplans in link below)
offc    3CP
hosp    1C
  doct  5 432 432 
  nurs  3 1www 1www
  aide  C PPPP PPPP
medics  1C
  evac  C PP[P][ww] PP[P][ww] PP[P][ww] ([P][f] - armor techs)
  A Co (C Pfff Pfff Pfff)  (deployed with A Co)
  B Co (C Pfff Pfff Pfff)  (deployed with B Co)
        C Pfff Pfff        (deployed as needed)

flight
2 lear gigs for senior officers
offc    4CP
flt1    3C 2www 1www 2www 1www
flt2    3C 2www 1www 2www 1www
flt3    3C 2www 1www 2www 1www
flt4    3C 2www 1www 2www 1www
flt5    3C 2www 1www 2www 1www
flt6    3C 2www 1www 2www 1www



facilities and equipment
2157 dtons personal living space/lockers/lowberths
50 boats and bays
assembly area 360 dtons
hospital 250 dtons
    2 26 dton boat bay receiving
    20 dton intake deck
    40 dton triage deck
    40 dton operating theaters (2)
    48 dton icu decks (8 rooms)
    32 dtons staterooms (8 rooms)
    30 dtons lowberths (30)
    40 dtons stores
endurance cargo (10 months) 245 dtons
maintenance facilities 180 dtons
    60 dtons boat repair bay
    60 dtons repair shops (3)
    60 dtons stores
training facilties 154 dtons
   150 dtons holobooths (60)
     4 control center
office spaces 108 dtons
operations centers 40 dtons (2)
robot bays 40 dtons
    12 dtons combat drones (2)
    12 dtons recon drones (4)
     4 dtons stealth drones (24)
    12 dtons deployment bay/airlock

 

[flykiller]

I didn't think there'd be many comments, but ... none? geez.

 

[wbyrd]

having a hard time translating the abbreviations.....

Not sure but it looks like there may be a need for integrated fire support and artillery.....Having a dedicated destroyer is great but call me paranoid....


a standard load out for each type of trooper would be a spiffy addition as well.

since traditionally (as I understand it) marines are an offensive force, I am under the impression they would have a pretty heavy punch integral to the unit.

 

[aramis]

I didn't think there'd be many comments, but ... none? geez.

The only thing I see that's an issue, and it's a minor one, is that the 4th squad is short - and that means that, in parade column, right side is ragged.

your parade formation will look

ssss L
cccc S
pppp 
pppp
pppp
cccc 
pppp 
pppp
pppp
cccp
pppf
ppp
ppp
ppp
fff

Plus, one private will probably be assigned as guidon bearer -
Also, the platoon assets (medic, comm) don't include enough to even out squad 4, nor even enough to make a separate rank with the guidon bearer.

It's a niggle, but it's the kind of niggle that tends to get squished at the organizational level.

There are lots of records in the US army records from WW I and II (and the USCW) that show privates reassigned in platoon to even out squads... In all cases, to make the platoon a rectangle, less one or two men. (if short, always in squad 4 first, squad 3 second, squad 2 third...)

 

[flykiller]

having a hard time translating the abbreviations.....

p=private, c=corporal, s=sergeant, S=staff sergeant, F=first sergeant, 1 2 3 etc, officers, f=navy lower rank, P=petty officer, C=chief, w=warrant officer (yes, I'm biased to the u.s. system). there are of course other ranks but I wanted to text-graph the unit and there are only so many symbols to use.

Not sure but it looks like there may be a need for integrated fire support and artillery.....Having a dedicated destroyer is great but call me paranoid....

very much wanted to, tried, but there just isn't room in the 4900 dtons unless something else is removed. in any case I envision them as being deployed mostly in "urban" habitat areas, not open field (a major target in the open field may be engaged by any number of naval weapons), so there is in fact little need for artillery or even armor (though there is some armor anyway). I envision fleet marines as being used in a target space that the commander in fact does not wish to destroy.

a standard load out for each type of trooper would be a spiffy addition as well.

most people would resist this and supply their own loadout anyway. the 0.5 dton equipment locker is sufficient for just about anything you would wish them to have. I envision them as being mostly in combat armor, just so they can fit into their anticipated operating environment. the fgmp14 will of course be mounted on battle dress.

 

[flykiller]

The only thing I see that's an issue, and it's a minor one, is that the 4th squad is short - and that means that, in parade column, right side is ragged.

... I see your point about the organizational level view (now that it's pointed out to me, never would have thought of it myself). unfortunately there are two hard limits. 1) 4900 dtons. there is only so much room to go around. 2) the boats. each can hold 15 troops, that's it, so sorry (in fact that's packing them pretty tight especially in combat armor, might even be unrealistic). this permits each platoon of exactly 60 men to fit into 4 infantry gigs (hueys). if the platoon were any larger this would require 6 extra boats, 1 for each platoon, and there absolutely positively is no room for them unless something else very significant is removed.

 

[aramis]

... I see your point about the organizational level view (now that it's pointed out to me, never would have thought of it myself). unfortunately there are two hard limits. 1) 4900 dtons. there is only so much room to go around. 2) the boats. each can hold 15 troops, that's it, so sorry (in fact that's packing them pretty tight especially in combat armor, might even be unrealistic). this permits each platoon of exactly 60 men to fit into 4 infantry gigs (hueys). if the platoon were any larger this would require 6 extra boats, 1 for each platoon, and there absolutely positively is no room for them unless something else very significant is removed.

Then the standard op model would be to change platoon size/squad size.
You can free up 3 by making the sergeant for each squad replace a corporal rather than in addition to the three (reducing squad size by 1).

so squad= spppcpppcpppmr
Plt Cadre: LS mr
(using m=medic and r=radioman privates)
Gives you a 60 man 4 even platoon plus 4-man cadre, with the guidon bearer being an honor job for a private from the ranks.
If you lack officer-per-platoon, then the guidon bearer likely is a private in the cadre.

 

[flykiller]

You can free up 3 by making the sergeant for each squad replace a corporal

that would do it. but that would 1) make the squad leader a fire-team participant when he should be running the squad, and 2) tie the squad leader to a particular fire-team when he should be free to follow the action as and however it develops. uneven parade formations or no, I just can't see any field-experienced military doing this.

of course, everyone is free to alter this arrangement as they see fit. sometimes in people's games "the imperial marines" show up, and I just wanted to supply referees with a tool for what that means, and illustrate what they have, and show the reasons why. "the marines" arrive - how many are there? 15, three teams. is there a medic? yes, right there with the squad. is there medical service? yes, via ambulance. are special weapons available? yes, with the company. is tech support available? yes, with the platoon. is transport available? yes, but maybe not immediately. are there eod specialists? as a matter of fact, yes. etc.

 

[rancke]

that would do it. but that would 1) make the squad leader a fire-team participant when he should be running the squad, and 2) tie the squad leader to a particular fire-team when he should be free to follow the action as and however it develops. uneven parade formations or no, I just can't see any field-experienced military doing this.

Want to bet that there have been professional militaries that did it like that? Not that I know of any or know how to google it, but I just have a hunch that some militaries are/were less NCO heavy than others.

of course, everyone is free to alter this arrangement as they see fit. sometimes in people's games "the imperial marines" show up, and I just wanted to supply referees with a tool for what that means, and illustrate what they have, and show the reasons why. "the marines" arrive - how many are there? 15, three teams. is there a medic? yes, right there with the squad. is there medical service? yes, via ambulance. are special weapons available? yes, with the company. is tech support available? yes, with the platoon. is transport available? yes, but maybe not immediately. are there eod specialists? as a matter of fact, yes. etc.

According to GT, when the Imperial Marines show up, it's game over. Which is why the Imperial Marines don't show up in my games.


Hans

 

[flykiller]

Want to bet that there have been professional militaries that did it like that?

well, I'm sure they marched well ....

actually, when I first set this up I did it entirely differently because of the space limitations. but an experienced u.s. marine told me the way it needed to be, and explained why, in detail, so I took out a bunch of stuff (and redesigned my boats) in order to get the s cppp cppp cppp lineup.

I very much would like to hear, not just, but also why, in detail, it is done any other way. I'm sure other readers would like to hear it as well. it would make for great roleplaying gaming action, back- or fore-ground.

when the Imperial Marines show up, it's game over.

imtu when the marines show up it is indeed game over for somebody, but the reason they show up is to keep it from being game over for everybody. lot of room in there for lots of action.

 

[aramis]

Want to bet that there have been professional militaries that did it like that? Not that I know of any or know how to google it, but I just have a hunch that some militaries are/were less NCO heavy than others.


According to GT, when the Imperial Marines show up, it's game over. Which is why the Imperial Marines don't show up in my games.


Hans

US and UK both have at various points.

 

[flykiller]

US and UK both have at various points.

do they still?

 

[aramis]

do they still?

Depends upon the unit, according to the US troops I've talked to recently. Some units have the squad leader as a fire-team leader, others do not. But fire-teams are technically ad-hoc. Sections aren't used much of the time, either.
The formal unit steps in most units run soldier, squad, platoon, company, battalion, regiment, brigade...

but some still use sections of 2 squads with section leaders. And despite being ad-hoc, in units that use them, the teams are usually stable.

In the 90's, everyone I knew who was a section sergeant was also a squad's sergeant and had a fire team. Small sample, tho - 3 section NCOs of the 1st of the 501 Infantry (Airborne Rangers)... One of whom was a buck sergeant, the other two were staff sergeants. Four more individuals were complained about, and apparently were squad leader and section leader in one person.

Unit organization in the US hasn't been stable since about 1908.

Prior, it was reasonably stable.

Also note: a lot of whether or not the platoon cadre are allowed to be multiple level holders depends upon unit mission and tactical authority level. If the platoon is the maneuver unit and unit of engagement, then the squad leaders being fire-team leaders won't be much of an issue.

If your unit of engagement (the smallest unit allowed to operate alone) is the squad, and the fire team is your maneuver element (the squad leader can send off different squads tactically in engagements), then its a minor issue.

If your squad is the maneuver element, and the section or platoon the engagement level, then it's far less an issue.

I'll note that you don't seem to have section NCO's... but have an organization that would allow Section NCOs.

 

[flykiller]

(the smallest unit allowed to operate alone)

I envision them as operating primarily in built-up areas, frequently in structures within hostile or no atmospheres. in that environment squads are operating alone tactically and the minimal, in fact the primary, unit is the fire team because of space, line-of-sight, and communication issues (one reason why I put a comm specialist in each squad). a sergeant must be able to operate within line-of-sight of his teams to maintain control of them. if he as a team leader becomes involuntarily involved in direct action then he cannot maintain control of his teams or even know what they are doing.

a section leader might be a good addition, if the general tactical environment permits scope for it. I just don't see that condition arising very often.

Unit organization in the US hasn't been stable since about 1908.

that seems to be driven by changing weapons and technology. I tried to base this marine battalion organization on 1) its operating environment and 2) its weapons and 3) its likely missions, rather than past practice. things were done certain ways in the past for certain reasons, I tried to look to the future.

 

[Condottiere]

With the modern American TO&E, it seems to have more to do with the carrying capacity of their IFVs, and balancing out declining numbers of frontline troops with technical aids.

As for the Marines, whether Imperium or Confederation, player characters shouldn't be able to deal with a fully equipped and supported platoon, but might be able to take out an isolated squad.

And then run like hell and disappear.

 

[aramis]

a section leader might be a good addition, if the general tactical environment permits scope for it. I just don't see that condition arising very often.

if the SL's tend to operate semi-autonomously, and you have a medic and radioman (radioman is probably quite redundant below company by TL12), adding a private to the SL directly as a bodyguard completes the sergeant as a 4th fireteam...

Going the other way, the radioman is probably redundant - long range commo is pretty small even at TL 9... Satphones now are under 2L.
likewise, a medic is probably not a squad level asset. Section level, perhaps... but that presumes that the platoon deploys to the same location.

that seems to be driven by changing weapons and technology. I tried to base this marine battalion organization on 1) its operating environment and 2) its weapons and 3) its likely missions, rather than past practice. things were done certain ways in the past for certain reasons, I tried to look to the future.

Actually, lots of the changes were not responses to changes in the tech, but changes in the general staff. Sometimes with a strong basis in prior tactical or strategic failures, sometimes based in delusion or political rhetoric. (This has been the pattern throughout Europe and the Americas.) Very rarely, reorganizations have been based upon religious tenets (1940's middle east).

This pattern is unlikely to change. The change from 16 companies in a regiment to 12 was efficiency - from 4 Bn to 3Bn, and the ability of a Regimental officer to each take one Bn and go... Plus the major in every 4th company, was practical. The drop to 10 Co was purely political... and resulted in the semi-modern 3 company battalion... most of the time. (but the Regiment only got one to 3 majors... the colonel's 2nd lieutenant, and 0-2 company commanders. It's amazing we didn't wind up with two grades of major...)

Every major military in existence today owes a bunch to the Roman Army. The distinction between General Officers, Officers, NCO's, and men dates back to them. The basic size of the company was orginally the roman century - literally "100"... 1 centurion, nominally 100 men (tho in practice up to 150). Even several of our terms for rank originate directly in Latin; most of them in English from Latin, French, or Spanish.

Even the Chinese learned from the British...

The basic regimental system the UK still uses dates to the 1600's, and is modeled on earlier feudal units...

 

[Condottiere]

Company size coincides with monkeysphere, which seems to be around one hundred to one hundred fifty.

Mileage varies, but the Roman century was eighty legionaries and twenty servants, First Cohort was organized as five double sized centuries, the other nine having six centuries each. Plus auxiliaries and camp followers.

 

[jec10]

most people would resist this and supply their own loadout anyway. the 0.5 dton equipment locker is sufficient for just about anything you would wish them to have. I envision them as being mostly in combat armor, just so they can fit into their anticipated operating environment. the fgmp14 will of course be mounted on battle dress.

Are you limiting them to TL14?

Otherwise, I would have thought you'd just use an FGMP-15 if you're outfitting them in Combat Armour. That way you can have everyone in Combat Armour. In most Traveller versions the combat stats of the FGMP-14 are exactly the same as the FGMP-15 (the difference is that one is for Battle Dress only and the other has a grav compensator so you can use it without Battle Dress).

If you're limiting to TL14, then you could consider a PGMP-14, which like the FGMP-15 doesn't need Battle Dress.

 

[flykiller]

Are you limiting them to TL14?

not at all. as I said, each game referee will outfit them as he sees fit, so I saw no need or utility in specifying their loadout. for myself I envision loadout as being mission dependent. if they are operating in an orbital habitat they may have nothing heavier than gauss rifles. if they expect to encounter combat robots they may have quite a few pgmp's and grenade launchers. etc. set them up however you like, 0.5 dtons for a combat gear locker is a lot of space.

the radioman is probably redundant

for open-air earth-weather ops, sure. but within built-up structures or inside enemy ships or in environments where ecm is employed or combat damage or alien planetary weather is causing large electro-magnetic transients, comms may be an issue.

Every major military in existence today owes a bunch to the Roman Army ... Even the Chinese learned from the British...

I like to think of this as being not merely descendently derivative, but reaching-the-same-conclusion parallel, in response to physical and human reality.

With the modern American TO&E, it seems to have more to do with the carrying capacity of their IFVs

for the army this is exactly correct. no-one liked the new 7 man squads, but that is what fits in the Bradley's, no choice, drive on.

monkeysphere

they say the span of command is 3-5. ever notice that that is how many men can sit around a campfire talking confidentially?

 

[aramis]

For TL14...
We're talking an orbital reach commo (100km) the size of a walkie talkie. 0.1kg, 200 cc or 12 cubic inches. 1" x 6" x 2" - a slightly largish cell phone. And Cr300. Cheap enough to put one on every man. Squad leaders probably have a larger one. 1L, 0.5 kg, 500km range, Cr500.

The 5000km is only 1.4L, 0.7kg, and KCr5.

Striker is kinda bad for that, as it only covers to 5Mm

MT has 50Mm for KCr50, 2kg, 8L - that's a geosync reaching rig the size of a grocery bag. (Most of which is probably antenna), but MT also needs a battery delivering 2kw. 4kwh per liter at Cr5000...