In Search of ZING!

[mike wightman]

Into The Unknown!
(explorations)
Story?

Zhodani core expeditions.

The Solomani rimward expeditions.

To name just two

 

[mike wightman]

How about the long night as a setting?

 

[robject]

Zho Core, for sure a great backdrop for exploration.

 

[Jeffr0]

I don't know that Interstellar Wars even has "story" in the way that some people are yearning for.

It's just a backdrop from which a Referee can place their own stories....

Can you really get "story" without going for the rpg-serial approach? With each new supplement steadily pushing the 'plot' forward?

I'm stickin' to my second idea: cover all of these milieux in a single book. Provide enough detail to pick up and play in any of them with the system of your choice. Get the overall flavor of a subsector with data and maps and patrons and adventure seeds. Then support each setting seperately with an adventure trilogy.

These settings can't just be invented over night. They need to be opened up to development-by-accretion the way the original CT universe came about.

Linking T5 to a single milieu means it practically has to stand or fall on the basis of that setting. Plus there's the chance that the rules might be 'hard coded' to imply just that one particular setting.

 

[kafka47]

Malenfant:

But aren't there only like, 144 real "Ancients"?

Not neccesarily, I am sure the Droyne did not just kick up their heels and say well now this grandfather guy can explore the galaxy we are just content to be a TL A civilization, as established in the Alien Module Droyne. In fact, whenever, players get close to learning the Secret of the Ancients, it is usually high powered Droyne who blow them away.

Plus, who is to say how many there were. Not to mention that the whole term Ancient is riddled with much ambiguity, as has been eluded to many times on this board.

And there are no other starfaring races or ancient ruins around because nobody was in space before the Ancients were.

Well, in addition to the above and the Ref. Manual reference. We could assume that Ancients were the openners of the way. There were countless civilizations.

And we know Grandfather kills everyone anyway so it's ultimately pointless.

Just because you know the end of the story does not mean that nothing happens in between. In fact, Grandfather only kills half his children and the other half live happily with him. Now we also have the Ancient that was entombed in that T4 adventure would not this have been considered death. Similarly what is death for a race of immortal superbeings that have transcended catagories of life/death and moved toward what we would only assume to be godhood with our primative understanding.

 

[Malenfant]

Thing is, I think there's about as much point in doing historical Traveller as there is in doing historical Star Wars, or historical Star Trek, or historical Babylon 5... It's something that appeals to a small subset of fans.

The whole 'historical' thing wouldn't have even started if T4 didn't pretend that TNE never happened. I don't really see what the obsession is with exploring every single bloody time period of Traveller with completely game lines.

Yeah, I'm sure you could run interesting stories in any part of Traveller history. But devoting an entire gameline to them is just silly I think.

IW at least has the fact that it is actually a very different setting to anything else done in Traveller. In fact, it probably might as well just be a totally different game completely and nobody would really notice - replace Vilani with 'random alien race that looks human' and you're done.

 

[mike wightman]

I'm in complete agreement with you here Mal.

The greatest let down for me in T4 was that it didn't pick up where TNE left off.

1248 is set to become my favourite Traveller era to date because I can fit nearly every genre of sci fi adventure I want to somewhere in the setting.

I remember the JTAS article about playing in historic Imperial eras. I read it and thought "hmm, some interesting ideas", and then didn't bother with any of them.
(Although I nearly ran a time travel adventure because of the influence of Julian May and Time and Time Again )

 

[robject]

For me, the greatest let-down of T4 was that it didn't deliver a story. I didn't mind the setting, because it was 'new' -- a pocket empire at the start of a 1100 year growth spurt. Plenty of potential.

'Story' is why I've actually sat down and read through Survival Margin more than once. And that's why it's not necessarily a problem playing in any particular milieu -- including bronze-age RuneQuest, even -- as long as it has a good story.

I still play in the Classic Traveller era. I know the assassination happens in 10 years. That doesn't matter! The milieu has a story plus interesting and familiar places, and yet has plenty of room to grow. That's why I like it. So what if it ends?

Guess what... TNE has an end, too. We may not know what it is, but it's guaranteed to dwindle, or shatter, or go out with a bang, or something. So what? Nilsen had great stories going, and that's why people like it.

Well, except for grognardy gearheadonist canonmongers, who just want tech.

 

[mike wightman]

Tech with a story attached

 

[clementk]

Originally posted by Malenfant:
IW at least has the fact that it is actually a very different setting to anything else done in Traveller. In fact, it probably might as well just be a totally different game completely and nobody would really notice - replace Vilani with 'random alien race that looks human' and you're done.

Reading this I had an image of blue-skinned humanoids chanting, "Desslok, Desslok, Desslok". Traveller already has nobles with fancy capes and Starblazers (link) is from the same period. Wave cannon, meson guns, same difference. IMO you could use some of the minis for Traveller, though they're a bit small.

(queues Starblazers theme song (link) - thanks to this page; apologies to the original creators!)

We're off to outer space
We're leaving Mother Earth
To save the human race
Our Star Blazers

Searching for a distant star
Heading off to Vland and war*
Leaving all we love behind
Who knows what danger we'll find?

We must be strong and brave
Our home we've got to save
If we don't in just one year
Mother Earth will disappear

Fighting with the Vilani
We won't stop until we've won
Then we'll return and when we arrive
The Earth will survive
With our Star Blazers

* or Heading off to Interstellar Wars

 

[Golan2072]

CT's main appeal to me was the wealth of universes that could be created by it; the knowledge that I could just sit down and build an interesting sci-fi world to adventure in. It had in it several basic ideas (such as jump drives and communications at the speed of travel) that helps you to channel your creative energies, but you could re-create some of the "harder" sci-fi literature/movie/TV settings (Aliens with very little modifications; Babylon 5 with somewhat bigger modifications but not much; Dan Simmon's Hyperion with heavy modification work; Larry Niven's Known Space with little work and so on) or just build your own.

The OTU was an example of such universe; an interesting and excellent example, but IMHO the things that define Traveller are it's basic assumptions (see the lBB4/LBB5 intros or the "what is traveller" booklet), not the OTU.

So I think that the basic rules should present, in VERY broad strokes, the "Golden Age" OTU, as many different kinds of adventures could be played in it "as-is" and it demonstrates TLs 0 through 15. Then publish a sourcebook describing the "behind the scenes" design decisions of the OTU as an example for a referee's desogn work as well as world-building suggestions.

For me, Traveller is a good, solid foundation to build my universe on and a set of rules to play in my universe.

 

[Lord Iron Wolf]

A couple of random thoughts. I think the "Distant Past of the Far Future" isn't going to fly with the kids. Why would they want to play a game that their father knows better than they do-especially history.

As I recall in the interview DGP did with Marc Miller in the 10th anniversary edition. Marc stated that Traveller didn't grow until the 3rd Imperium was added. There needes to be some sort of framework for the adventures to occur in or the referee has too much work before he even writes an adventure.

Traveller did one thing very smart early on. It allowed other companies to produce Traveller material (Judges Guild, Paranoia Press, FASA, ect.) This allowed a lot of expansion while keeping the OTU core intact. Fans couldn't say the game was unsupported; while GDW could concentrate on producing quality suppliments and adventures. It would be well worth reviewing this policy and using it to Marc Miller's advantage.

Back to the original question about "Zing." Simply providing a usable OTU after the scourge of the Virus is removed or largely neutralized should provide Zing. A logical history and changes that provide a good background to adventure in should be. The old fans will buy because they want to know what happened to their Imperium and the new ones can have something that is their's not their fathers.

FWIW LIW

 

[Flynn]

LIW,

You are effectively describing what the 1248 sourcebook is intending to provide. If nothing else, it gives you the basic foundation to build on what was left behind, so that we'll eventually see a new Charted Space arise from the ashes of the old empires.

It's a fresh start in the old playground.

Looking forward to its release,
Flynn

 

[DaveChase]

What I am hoping for is something new type of travel that allows exploring new regions.

Though I like having the information of sectors for ready made play areas, I also like the exploring of the unknown.

Maybe have not a complete redue of the OTU but a refocus on the exploring of the unknown. Some major funding from the Imperium to explore the uncharted/unknown.

Dave Chase

 

[Flynn]

1248 gives you that, as well, as there's intended to be a sourcebook for leaving Charted Space and entering unknown territories. Of course, it all depends on how well the first 1248 materials sell.

But if the prospects are good, it'll be a go, and you'll get what you're looking for.

Later,
Flynn

 

[aramis]

An Open Supplement License, similar to EABA's, might be a great way to go.

Seriously, though, i think the OTU needs to go away with T5. Kaput.

A New ImperiumPrime setting should be the replacement. Similar enough to be familiar, but officially not the same, so canonistas like Hans, Myself, and others can't twist the authorial arms in the same manner that was and is being done with both GT and T20. It's not so bad for either of these, since T20 is only setting-canon, not rules, and GT is neither, but it's own ATU with its own body of ever more divergent canon... mostly due to stuff which was once extrapolated from rules is replaced by setting/story derived ideas.

Not that the GTU being different is a bad thing. (I happen to dislike it, as a setting, but in and of itself, it's not a bad take.)

There is a major change in game-think tho', that affects it. In the 1970's and 1980's, due to minis games especially, canon was thought to include rules materials, often with rules overriding story/setting materials.

No traveller edition's rules truly support an Imperium as described. The ships simply do not make sense with any of the rules. A Tigress is too big, too easy to kill, for the killing capability it provides under HG/MT. Under BL/BR/TNE/T4, it's worse; a physical impossibility. (There is a complete insufficiency of radiator space on that big a sphere to power the drives listed.)


Part of Zing! for me is that the setting and the rules reflect each other. T4 started this way, but canonistas (myself included, for shame), lobbied for our favorite bits... and it turned out a muddled mess, and worse, a poorly edited one at that.

 

[Flynn]

Where could I find details of this Open Supplement License for EABA that you've mentioned? I'd like to be somewhat informed on that before I reply to this suggestion.

(i.e. it sounds good, but I want to make sure it means what I think it means, first.)

Thanks,
Flynn

 

[clementk]

http://www.btrc.net/html/eaba2.html#osl

?

I like EABAnywhere.

Like an expanded Prince Valiant but it fits in a pocket and can be played with rock-paper-scissors or pocket change.

While I agree that dropping the OTU might help, I doubt that will happen with T5.

 

[Flynn]

EABAnywhere does look pretty cool.

EDIT: I wonder if EABAnywhere could be used to run a Traveller LARP, by modifying the skills list, etc? Hmmm.....

As for the OSL, it doesn't look that much different from the Limited License proposal for Traveller, save that Traveller will omit the OTU, and the OSL doesn't have PI and a Trademark name to worry about.

-Flynn

 

[robject]

Originally posted by kafka47:
First Contact
(The Solar System before jump drive)
Story? The "Grand Story" of the development of the Jump Drive and Contact with the Vilani?

[...]

Meanwhile, they are being watched by the old ones, an illuminati, from a crashed Vilani scoutship years before.

[...]

Very clever idea, dragging the Illuminati into Traveller. I suppose they could be the remnants of a failed ancient colony, or they could be infiltrators...