In your TNE game (with TNE rules), does anyone use lasers?

[LeperColony]

In your TNE games, do any PCs use lasers? If so, why? Against what opposition? What do they do when they fight someone with a flak jacket? With a breastplate? With a cooking pot over the head?

What role do laser small arms play in the TNE rules set aside from enabling PCs to defeat opposition already grossly beneath them?

 

[whartung]

In your TNE games, do any PCs use lasers? If so, why? Against what opposition? What do they do when they fight someone with a flak jacket? With a breastplate? With a cooking pot over the head?

What role do laser small arms play in the TNE rules set aside from enabling PCs to defeat opposition already grossly beneath them?

Well, Pistols (save for HEAP) fall pretty much in to the same camp as lasers, in that they can't seem to shoot their way out of a paper bag, save that they're affected by even more armor types.

Lasers, however gain the advantage of being far more powerful, when they do penetrate, and having much better ranges. SHORT range for a laser PISTOL is 90 (NINETY) meters. (Mind the laser pistol is a bit of an ungainly beast.)

I can easily see the cartridge based lasers being a preferred rifle for game hunting, for example. Silent if you miss, no recoil, ballistically perfect, and very powerful, especially for large game.

They're also well suited to zero-g, and vacuum as well (most vacc suits are not armor against lasers, for example).

The Gauss Rifle is the pinnacle of the slug thrower, and is an extremely versatile rifle Given a choice for a random task, I'd take one of those over most anything else any day.

The lasers are a bit more specialized but certainly have their uses.

 

[LeperColony]

Well, Pistols (save for HEAP) fall pretty much in to the same camp as lasers, in that they can't seem to shoot their way out of a paper bag, save that they're affected by even more armor types.

Actually, DS out performs HEAP for most purposes, even penetration for reasonable pistol ranges, but yeah you are right. Except that at least when armor saves you from a pistol, you take blunt trauma damage. That might not seem like much (and it isn't), but when your pistol only does 1-2 dice, then you are actually doing a good amount compared to the average (1 v 3.5 for 1 die, or 2 v 7 for 2 dice).

Lasers, however gain the advantage of being far more powerful, when they do penetrate, and having much better ranges. SHORT range for a laser PISTOL is 90 (NINETY) meters. (Mind the laser pistol is a bit of an ungainly beast.)

Range is nice, and far from worthless. However, if you can't ever do any damage, it really doesn't matter what your range is.

I can easily see the cartridge based lasers being a preferred rifle for game hunting, for example. Silent if you miss, no recoil, ballistically perfect, and very powerful, especially for large game.

This is a good point, and a clear use for lasers, but it doesn't do much to explain the significant military uses TNE assumes laser small arms have.

They're also well suited to zero-g, and vacuum as well (most vacc suits are not armor against lasers, for example).

The vacc suit thing is something I hadn't considered, and upon checking you're right, for some reason they aren't armored against lasers (a Reflect coating would be so hard?) and so I concede that for ship boarding actions and the like, they'd be pretty useful. As for zero-g in general, the only rules for that I could find related to altering slug weapon ranges. You'd think it'd affect recoil, but I wasn't able to find anything on that.

The Gauss Rifle is the pinnacle of the slug thrower, and is an extremely versatile rifle Given a choice for a random task, I'd take one of those over most anything else any day.

The lasers are a bit more specialized but certainly have their uses.

My primary problem is that in TNE lasers are simply worthless in most planetary situations, outside of killing critters, primitives unable even to make breastplates, or civilians. In other additions of Traveller, lasers were powerful but there were certain types of armor that were especially useful against them (like Reflect). In TNE, lasers are great against weak opposition, and worthless against anyone TL 2 or higher.

 

[whartung]

My primary problem is that in TNE lasers are simply worthless in most planetary situations, outside of killing critters, primitives unable even to make breastplates, or civilians. In other additions of Traveller, lasers were powerful but there were certain types of armor that were especially useful against them (like Reflect). In TNE, lasers are great against weak opposition, and worthless against anyone TL 2 or higher.

I think you overstate the availability of armor, frankly. The armor our troops carry now (kevlar with ceramic inserts) is amazingly capable against the AK-47s et al being used against them. But, clearly, our troops are hardly immune to casualties. Also, consider that in pretty much all of the other conflicts raging around our pale blue dot, pretty much nobody else is using much of any kind of armor.

The primary issue isn't so much the armor issue, rather it's more the cost issue. They're simply so expensive compared to the slug throwers. Also, they're a lousy "deterrent". You can't keep anyones head down and control their motion with a silent laser. You can't really send "cover fire" with a laser. But ricochet a few bullets near their head or whiz some supersonics buzzes by their ear, and they think twice about putting their head up.

Mind, I've never considered them prevalent in Traveller. In original CT, the laser rifle and carbine had that horrendous power pack you had to lug around. So although they were very powerful, they were also bulky and awkward. Gimme 5 kilos of rifle over 10 or 20 of a laser any day. Simply, the slug throwers are just too good for the basic problem of sending hurt down range. Cheap, reliable, effective. Have M1A, will travel.

I see them useful as special use weapons in specific situations rather than in general deployment.

 

[Antony]

Also the flak jackets are only immune to the light lasers when the metal inserts are put in. Then go for aimed shots to unprotected places. All lasers have built in laser sights so are good for target designation, aim a missile at the battledress equipped trooper or alternatively against those pesky troopers in metallic armour use the integral grenade launcher many laser weapons are equipped with, with a HEAP warhead. Remember only metallic armour in TNE stops the Nil penetration lasers other armour is classed as no armour versus lasers.

 

[Antony]

Now if I could just work out how to design the batteries for the backpack lasers - never been able to work this out using FFS1.

 

[LeperColony]

It's true that non-metallic armor is generally no protection from lasers, but if you look at the TNE armor chart, the only categories of armor that don't protect you are the body suits, vacc suits, and TL 0 hides. Flak jackets do in fact protect you from lasers in TNE.

Our troops take damage today because even if the armor saves them, it doesn't completely protect them. In TNE, virtually all small arms lasers (in fact, possibly all?) have nil penetration, so they cause no harm at all.

Now, I'm not saying laser technology is worthless (laser designators, as mentioned, are very useful), but TNE seems to assume a large military role for laser small arms. Unfortunately the rules don't seem to bear that out, and even though you guys have raised some nice defenses for lasers, I've yet to hear anyone say that their PCs (or their characters if they aren't the GM) actually uses laser weapons.

 

[E.D.Quibell]

The primary issue isn't so much the armor issue, rather it's more the cost issue. They're simply so expensive compared to the slug throwers. Also, they're a lousy "deterrent". You can't keep anyones head down and control their motion with a silent laser. You can't really send "cover fire" with a laser. But ricochet a few bullets near their head or whiz some supersonics buzzes by their ear, and they think twice about putting their head up.

But if they put their heads up can you not just shoot them?

Best regards,

Ewan

 

[Antony]

The description of flak jackets in the TNE rule book says they have solid sheets of ceramic or metallic armour inserted. The equivelant armour without the inserts is the BC vest which offers no protection v lasers. Would it be possible to design a laser for the powered armour boys which will penetrate all the worn armours. Sometimes plasma and fusion guns are too much given plasma splash and all.
The smallest laser in the Reformation Equipment Guide with an actual penetration rating is the TL13 Laser Sniper Rifle a bit big for everyday wear but it does do upto 95 dice of damage v personnel.

 

[Zparkz]

Now if I could just work out how to design the batteries for the backpack lasers - never been able to work this out using FFS1.

In the files archive at www.travellerfreeport.com there is a spreadsheet for designing lasers. among other weapons and armor types.

 

[Zparkz]

It's true that non-metallic armor is generally no protection from lasers, but if you look at the TNE armor chart, the only categories of armor that don't protect you are the body suits, vacc suits, and TL 0 hides. Flak jackets do in fact protect you from lasers in TNE.

The rules states clearly than only metalic or ceramic armor protects against lasers. And most flack jackets and BW wests only protects the body.

 

[Zparkz]

But if they put their heads up can you not just shoot them?

Best regards,

Ewan

Even though there is no ballistics to think of and the result is immediate, there is no certainty that you'll hit with your fire. Thus the enemy may still keep their heads up and fire, making it difficult to move troops into position.

Throw in a machinegun and spray the enemy with bullets and the enemy will duck behind cover. Meanwhile you move your troops unseen into better positions to take the enemy.

Lasers would be the ultimate sniper weapon. No sound, just exploding heads to confirm that you are under fire.

 

[epicenter00]

Lasers would be the ultimate sniper weapon. No sound, just exploding heads to confirm that you are under fire.

I've read that a laser powerful enough to actually kill people actually would superheat the air that it passes through, producing a loud "crack" noise. So the idea that lasers as being silent is false, according to that.

 

[aramis]

I've read that a laser powerful enough to actually kill people actually would superheat the air that it passes through, producing a loud "crack" noise. So the idea that lasers as being silent is false, according to that.

That depends on how fast it comes to full power.

 

[whartung]

Throw in a machinegun and spray the enemy with bullets and the enemy will duck behind cover. Meanwhile you move your troops unseen into better positions to take the enemy.

One of my favorite quotes from "Red Dawn" was after the Colonel laid out the plan to attack the camp, one of the kids said "What's grazing fire, why don't we just shoot 'em?"

 

[whartung]

So, for laughs I tried to design a small TL-12 laser. The premise was to use it as a fire support weapon from a lander, so it's supposed to be used in ground combat rather than space combat.

Everything went along swimmingly.

But the problem comes down to power.

If you use the TL-12, 120Mj laser. For the Starship turret socket version, it takes 3.3MW of power to drive the laser. But that's because it's using the 3.3MW of power to fill up a 600 MW Homopolar Generator over a 1/2 hour.

In ground combat, if you want to fire that laser every round, you need 120MW of power. A scouts entire PPlant is 147 MW. Starship lasers fire once every 36(!) ground combat rounds. The slower the ROF the smaller the PPlant necessary to drive it.

This is likely why there aren't any really common battlefield lasers. The cartridge powered ones simply aren't powerful enough, the powered ones take too much power, and the energy weapons start showing up which end up being more effective.