CT Only: Is travel regulated in the 3i?

[Supplement Four]

Let's speculate.

Where ever you go in the Third Imperium, the price of a Middle Passage is 8,000 Cr, a High Passage is 10,000 Cr, and a Low Passage is 1,000 Cr.

Such a standard cannot be the result of market forces--not on such a scale. There's absolutely no variance.

Thus, it makes one believe that the government is involved. I would speculate price ceilings. It's almost as if the Emperor said that 10,000 Cr, and no more, will be spent by the people in his Empire for High Passage. It may be a method of promoting travel.

It also speaks to how hard it can be to make a profit with some vessels. Cargo/Freight must have a price ceiling too, again, maybe to keep the prices from getting too high to the point it hurts trade in the Imperium.

What do you think?

 

[AnotherDilbert]

I would consider it typical prices, not absolute prices, just as not all auto-pistols wouldn't cost Cr210 (LBB1).

Note that the rules don't say it only cost that in the Imperium, but everywhere.


Also note that we have canonical exceptions, e.g:

Players' information: A noble contacts the group, and announces his wish to hire their ship for passage to his Violante estate. He will require all 150 tons of cargo space for the move. He will also need all passenger staterooms, and all low berth since he will be moving his entire household staff as well. He will pay standard rates and a Cr20,000 bonus.

Though he cannot buy the price of the passage up front, the patron's brother, one of the starport warden's chief assistants at Aramanx starport, will be glad to cover the passage when they arrive-in fact, the patron is fairly sure, he can pay them double the usual passage price, just for the trouble they'll have to go through on his behalf.

 

[ShawnDriscoll]

I've never used fixed pricing in my games.

 

[whartung]

Let's speculate.

Where ever you go in the Third Imperium, the price of a Middle Passage is 8,000 Cr, a High Passage is 10,000 Cr, and a Low Passage is 1,000 Cr.

Such a standard cannot be the result of market forces--not on such a scale. There's absolutely no variance.

I think it's a simple mechanic in a 40 year old game to facilitate travel rather than a projection of, well, anything.

 

[Timerover51]

I think it's a simple mechanic in a 40 year old game to facilitate travel rather than a projection of, well, anything.

I would agree with that, and also remember that at the time the game was initially designed, the airlines were still regulated by the Federal government. It also helps in determining the game economics when it comes to ship purchases. I think that I can still live with it, otherwise, you would have a myriad of pricing in the game, making it unduly complicated where it need not be.

 

[coliver988]

I think it's a simple mechanic in a 40 year old game to facilitate travel rather than a projection of, well, anything.

I would also agree as per Timerover51. It was just a simplification so that each planetary system would not have to have to figure out pricing (see the GURPS Far Trader supplement: you could calculate the world GDP and calculate relative costs and...we're suddenly playing accountants spa-a-a-ace). Much like most RPGs: here's a cost of a thing. Does not matter where you get it, it is 5gp. You find a gem, you get 10gp for it no matter where you are.

Similar to Shawn I have allowed haggling, so for me that represents the price unless the players want to role play wheeling and dealing, in which case it becomes the base price. If the group is not into that aspect of things, I just use the price as is. I try & adjust my games to how the players want to play.

 

[mike wightman]

The megacorps fix the prices...

 

[Timerover51]

The megacorps fix the prices...

That is a reasonable approach as well.

 

[Condottiere]

There are two aspects to this, as to why every ship captain honours them, if they accept the Travellers as passengers, and they might be issued by a central authority.

If you charter a ship, rates may be negotiable.

 

[aramis]

Let's speculate.

Where ever you go in the Third Imperium, the price of a Middle Passage is 8,000 Cr, a High Passage is 10,000 Cr, and a Low Passage is 1,000 Cr.

Such a standard cannot be the result of market forces--not on such a scale. There's absolutely no variance.

Thus, it makes one believe that the government is involved. I would speculate price ceilings. It's almost as if the Emperor said that 10,000 Cr, and no more, will be spent by the people in his Empire for High Passage. It may be a method of promoting travel.

It also speaks to how hard it can be to make a profit with some vessels. Cargo/Freight must have a price ceiling too, again, maybe to keep the prices from getting too high to the point it hurts trade in the Imperium.

What do you think?

I've said that for literally decades.

IMO, the 3I pays those rates explicitly so that there's a source of CrImp besides 3I-military/Gov't service.
And demands payment of taxation in either land or CrImp, and land is at a fixed rate set by the 3I...

 

[aramis]

The megacorps fix the prices...

They are, functionally, Part and parcel of the Imperial Government - in that, canonically, they're owned largely by the high nobility and each other.

 

[kilemall]

My assumption, OTU or not, is that this is a fixed price, not only to promote travel by not having higher costs, but also a floor so a minimum can be charged and financed ships can make payments.


In other words, ultimately a banking payoff for supporting a broad interstellar financial and shipyard infrastructure to keep ships flying, paying and being made.


Else you would have only ships that are financed by megacorps with cash-only buys, or subsidized merchants.






Now I've gone and turned all this upside down for the Oort Cloud environment.


There, everything costs 1/10th of what it does normally.
This is because the ships are largely stolen or obsolete radioactive death traps, with very few safety measures and a definite caveat emptor/reputation market.


So all this traffic is occurring, some legit companies doing shady shipping with these people if they can navigate the treacherous business and deal with the fact none of these ships can pull into a regular starport. But a lot of it is all the illegal weapons, drugs, bioproducts, slavery, stolen tech, rare animal trade, and other such items that are produced or desired in The Cloud.


The absence of 'normal' can be an exotic, even jarring setting all it's own, and defining an underworld interstellar shipping economy can be a good way to greatly contrast the mundane tensions that set such hard standard fares and what flourishes beyond the civilized realm.

 

[mike wightman]

That's an interpretation I have never seen before...

megacorps are part of the Imperial government...

hmm

megacorps have nobles as sharholders, we have the numbers in Library Data A-M, sometimes including the Emperor, but there are also private investors with considerable interest.

Also the megacorporation article has this to say about megacorps at the subsector/sector level:

The most important executives, in terms of personal power, are the various regional managers (by whatever name they may be called). A regional manager may control only a small portion of a megacorporation's total assets, but many hold more power in some regions than the representatives of the lmperial government.
A small number of lmperial regulatory agencies have power over megacorporations, and they are subject to any applicable local taxes, but, provided they do not blatantly violate lmperial sovereignty, regional managers can usually conduct their company's business as they see fit. Because a direct confrontation with the lmperium would be bad for business, intentional violation of lmperial laws is done only on a covert basis.

I do not see megacorp regional managers as part of the Imperial government in any way. Lobbying the local nobilility yes, but being an 'extension' of the Imperial government apparatus no.

Is there an example in canon of a megacorp regional manager being of ducal rank or greater, and also having subsector governance responsibilities?

 

[aramis]

That's an interpretation I have never seen before...

megacorps are part of the Imperial government...

hmm

megacorps have nobles as sharholders, we have the numbers in Library Data A-M, sometimes including the Emperor, but there are also private investors with considerable interest.

Also the megacorporation article has this to say about megacorps at the subsector/sector level:


I do not see megacorp regional managers as part of the Imperial government in any way. Lobbying the local nobilility yes, but being an 'extension' of the Imperial government apparatus no.

Is there an example in canon of a megacorp regional manager being of ducal rank or greater, and also having subsector governance responsibilities?

Lobbyists are a part of both US and UK government. Not as formal members of government, but by having a notable "vote with the money" effect upon those who are. The are, de facto, part of the function of the government, even while blackletter being no part.

Also note: in the MT Zizu Sirkaa, the Vilani Megacorps all immediately return to a governmental role under the new shadow-emperor of Vland.

This implies that they had some strong influence, even popular support for, being quasi-governmental to begin with. Further, they started out as governments in the 1I.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

I find it unlikely that megacorps fix the prices. The stated prices seems to apply to tramp freighters servicing fly-over country.

The megacorps on the major trade routes can of course run this more efficiently and hence use lower prices.


This sample major route J-2 liner (scheduled) is profitable with 40% rebates on the ticket prices:

RH-E422232-000000-00000-0        MCr 930       5 000 Dton
bearing                                           Crew=53
batteries                                           TL=12
   Pass=500 Low=200 Cargo=1289 Fuel=1020 EP=100 Agility=1

Single Occupancy                                 1289,4    1162,7
                                     USP    #      Dton      Cost
Hull                Custom             E           5000          
Configuration       Close Structure    4                      300
Scoops              Partial                                     5
Armour                                 0                         
                                                                 
Jump Drive          Z                  2    1       125       240
Manoeuvre D         Z                  2    1        47        96
Power Plant         Z                  2    1        73       192
Fuel, #J, #weeks    J-2, 4 weeks            2      1020          
Purifier                                    1      30,6       0,2
                                                                 
Bridge                                      1       100        25
Computer            m/3                3    1         3        18
                                                                 
Staterooms                                553      2212     276,5
Low Berths                                200       100        10
                                                                 
Cargo                                            1289,4          
                                                                 
                                                                 
Nominal Cost        MCr 1162,66          Sum:    1289,4    1162,7
Class Cost          MCr  244,16         Valid        ≥0        ≥0
Ship Cost           MCr  930,13                                  
                                                                 
                                                                 
Crew &               High   150        Crew          Bridge    10
Passengers            Mid   350          53       Engineers     3
                      Low   200                     Gunners     0
                 Extra SR     0      Frozen         Service    40
               # Frozen W     0           0          Flight     0
                  Marines     0                     Marines     0
                                                                 
                                                                 
Estimated Economy of Ship     Standard                                     
       Ship price     Down Payment         Mortgage       Avg Filled
       MCr 930,13      kCr 186 026        kCr 3 876              80%
                                                                 
Expenses per jump                       Revenue                  
Bank              Cr 1 328 754          High         Cr 1 200 000
Fuel              Cr   102 000          Middle       Cr 2 240 000
Life Support      Cr   926 000          Low          Cr   160 000
Salaries          Cr    62 400          Cargo        Cr 1 028 000
Maintenance       Cr    26 575                                   
Berthing          Cr     5 000                                   
                                                                 
Summa            kCr     2 451                      kCr     4 628
                                                                 
     Income potential per jump     kCr 2 177                    
  Yearly yield on down payment     29,3%

 

[Selandia]

Do not forget that much of the frontier travel implicit in LLB CT is not mega corp, but Subsidized Liner or Free Trader.

In the case of Subsidized liner, it is normal that the Govt will fix the price.

Since the purpose of those Subs-Liner is to maintain a minimum of trade at a steady schedule, the subsidizer do not price the service to reduce trade by killing free trade! It makes sense to fix it at at least subsistance level for competing free trader, allowing the price to be as low as possible to favor travel, while high enough to avoid killing trade expansion by pricing free trader out of business. That would be using tax payers' subsidy money to acheive the contrary of the tax payers' interest when a subsidy is paid....o:

(According to the rules of the forum THIS IS NOT A REFERENCE TO ANY REAL GOVT:CoW

Have fun

Selandia

 

[aramis]

(According to the rules of the forum THIS IS NOT A REFERENCE TO ANY REAL GOVT:CoW

Nothing to worry about. [m;]3I government Is Not banned to the pit.[/m;]