Is Traveller Dead?

[mbrinkhues]

Germany has SO many Cons, that it's no surprise, Michael. 4 years ago, someone posted on BGG that there was at least one gaming convention per week in Germany drawing 100+ people. While I think he was exaggerating, I don't think by more than a factor of 3 or so...

Around 60 Conventions this year. But that includes EVERYTHING that at least nominally offers P&P. So all "board games" and "tabletop" conventions are included, same for the RPC (thats 80+ percent computer gaming). Substract the "one system" cons and you get even less. And some of those cons are dead.

Even big ones have been stagnating and even dropping in numbers for years (since the early 2000) even so they have broadened their base to include LARP (NordCon, FeenCon) and Tabletop. Some (DoDeKaHedron, Warendorf) died completely (and those where 400-1000 participants cons in 2000).

The last Morpheus managed an average of 50-60 persons at any given time. To put this into perspective: The last "Ice run" from the Morpheus game center to the ice bar back in 2003 IIRC had that many participants and the con was still going strong.

Perhaps what you are seeing is (as a German BGGer posited) a correction to a sustainable level, rather than indication of any loss of players. After all, German FLGS seem to be doing all right in board game sales... And German Culture is highly favorable to games of all stripes, except gambling.

Yes, on BOARD games, tabletops and miniatures. NOT on RPGs. And the two groups don't mix that much here in Germany player-wise. I have a few of the biggest shops within 30km and just looking at store space their main cash cows are not the RPGs (and some shopowners freely admit that). Besides "german culture" is favorable on very few games. Socially accepted are classic board games like chess, checkers, nine man's morris or ludo. And then the good old card games - Skat, Doppelkopf, Schafskopf, Romee etc. And the latter are typically played for points or cents

The German educators I've seen post on BGG and RPGG indicate that there's no loss of interest in board, card, and roleplay games, just in ability to buy them.

The first two are running, the latter I doubt from experience.

 

[Gray Lensman]

You're writing off way too many people with your rant there. Suggesting that you magically have the patience and discipline to handle P&P RPGs while younger generations do not is short sighted and frankly insulting. That sort of attitude is not going to attract anyone to the hobby. The suggestion that video games don't require patience and discipline shows how out of touch you are with video games and the people that play them rather than demonstrate that those people couldn't enjoy your hobby.

Did you even look at the first part of my post? I play Eveonline, I play Tradewars 2002 (yes, it is almost as old as Traveller {actually you could find some people that would say it's older by a couple of years}) My favorite computer games are StarCraft 1 & 2 and the Call of Duty series. Shoot, if I was willing to cut my time on them down I might actually get my Amderstun Project done sooner rather than later.

As a matter of fact, it was basically a response to HG_Bs post. Awww, never mind...

 

[Gray Lensman]

D&D started off as miniature wargame rules with fantasy elements thrown in. That game might have worked well with the subset of people that enjoyed miniatures wargaming and was novel in 1976.

try a few years earlier than 1976. and the name was chain mail rules by TACTICAL STUDIES RULES which is where TSR comes in, duh, I still have mine about six feet form where I sit. Where Are Yours?

 

[HG_B]

I play Tradewars 2002 (yes, it is almost as old as Traveller {actually you could find some people that would say it's older by a couple of years})

Tradewars was developed in '84. 7 years after Traveller...

 

[giant.robot]

try a few years earlier than 1976. and the name was chain mail rules by TACTICAL STUDIES RULES which is where TSR comes in, duh, I still have mine about six feet form where I sit. Where Are Yours?

D&D was first published as D&D in 1976. Pointing out the publication date of the Chainmail rules is no sort of rebuttal to anything I said. The original D&D rules and worse the Chainmail rules would not fly with anyone getting into role playing games today.

Pointing out that you play a handful of video games does not do anything at all to address how insultingly you describe anyone who plays video games. Does the fact you play video games mean you don't have the patience and discipline to play Traveller?

Get off your high horse. You play make believe space ships with pieces of paper.

 

[aramis]

D&D was first published in 1974, not 1976. 1976 was when the redaction of the Tolkienian critters was done. Some pre-release copies were sold and/or given away in 1973.

Starfaring and Tunnels and Trolls were both published in 1975.

Traveller was published in 1977.

Tradewars was 1982, and really hit it big on WWIVnet.

 

[Blue Ghost]

I got to about page 5, then started skimming because there's an awful lot of opinionating going on here.

I think what we're experiencing is that the barbarians have stormed the internet gates. When I was doing dialup BBS stuff in the 80s most of the various "websites" (dial up boards) run by local computer geeks were fantasy oriented, with a good helping of sci-fi.

Then when the net went public there was a firestorm of Trek, SW and sci-fi gaming sites; quake, DOOM, Warcraft, et al. A lot of classic venerable games that were located on private dialup or old AOL, Prodigy or Genie networks suddenly "went public" so to speak.

There were thousands of sci-fi websites. Traveller caught on, and exploded like all the rest.

But now what used to be the realm of TV and magazines has migrated to the net. The net is now mainstream media. As such sci-fi has lost its tacit dominance, and is now placed back in the niche from which it started.

Me, I'm a single middle aged male with no local gamers willing to take me on for sundry reasons, so, I'm delegated to posting on this BBS and writing when I get the hankerin. I love a good gaming session in addition to all the other pleasures that I love to enjoy (when I have money).

Speaking of fiduciary, Traveller is relatively cheap entertainment. Books, paper, pencil, dice, some gas to drive to a friend's house, and you're all set. So, I don't see the economy as being a factor. I see the net having dethroned TV, and now just as there were few good sci-fi shows in the mainstream, so it is that Traveller is in that corner once more.

 

[far-trader]

Just a quick heads-up. The Traveller Tech Update discussion seemed deserving of it's own thread and has been moved here:

http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/showthread.php?t=23487

If I missed any relevant posts just let me know by PM and I'll move them.

Please carry on in the appropriate thread, both discussions are interesting in their own rights.

 

[HG_B]

Just a quick heads-up. The Traveller Tech Update discussion seemed deserving of it's own thread and has been moved here:

http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/showthread.php?t=23487

If I missed any relevant posts just let me know by PM and I'll move them.

Please carry on in the appropriate thread, both discussions are interesting in their own rights.

Next time make the link clickable.

 

[far-trader]

Next time make the link clickable.

I used to all the time, but then the board had that upgrade meltdown and all those embedded clickable links were useless, even for trying to track down the original link. Now I just do this (most of the time) so it will always be readable

 

[HG_B]

I used to all the time, but then the board had that upgrade meltdown and all those embedded clickable links were useless, even for trying to track down the original link. Now I just do this (most of the time) so it will always be readable

When you do it like this:
http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/showthread.php?t=23487
it is still a literal. Note that it can be copied and pasted.

 

[far-trader]

Wait, now I see what you mean. Odd. The other addy I put in (the other thread to back here), at the same time, in the exact same way*, is clickable.

* or not quite, obviously, something must have been different since one is clickable, bizarre...

 

[HG_B]

Wait, now I see what you mean. Odd. The other addy I put in (the other thread to back here), at the same time, in the exact same way*, is clickable.

* or not quite, obviously, something must have been different since one is clickable, bizarre...

This is how I do it: http://travellerrpg.com (WYSIWYG)

 

[far-trader]

i haz borked teh interwebs, morr

 

[HG_B]

i haz borked teh interwebs, morr

No worries. I started in tech when PDPs were considered high tech and just recently left and, what I don't know would still fill a library.

 

[Gray Lensman]

Someone help me out here, apparently I am missing something.

So, in post #47 You said I was insulting younger generations?

You're writing off way too many people with your rant there. Suggesting that you magically have the patience and discipline to handle P&P RPGs while younger generations do not is short sighted and frankly insulting.

And, in post #65 you are saying that I am insulting anyone who plays video games?

Pointing out that you play a handful of video games does not do anything at all to address how insultingly you describe anyone who plays video games. Does the fact you play video games mean you don't have the patience and discipline to play Traveller?

So, which am I insulting, younger generations or people that play video games?

Get off your high horse. You play make believe space ships with pieces of paper.

Apparently, So Do You, or we wouldn't be having this discussion would we?

My Grandpappy tried to learn me about arguing with walls.

I am done with this

 

[robject]

Want more Traveller at your FLGS? Plan an afternoon with your friends and go play Traveller, any version, in print or out, at the store. Invite questions from folks and share the fun the game brings you. And when you finish buy something- anything- from the shopkeeper so he can appreciate your support of his store. Then go back the next week and do it again.

This sounds like a good idea. I want to do this.

 

[PDXWiz]

I saw the D&D redbox at Target last night. Two boxes, on the shelves with the collectible card games and the sports/non-sports trading cards. Naturally, since Wizards owns D&D and Magic (and publishes the Pokemon game, too), of course it is there.

Nice to see that. I first saw my original D&D set in the late 70s at a local store very similar to Target and Wal-mart (more grocery oriented). After a big mall opened up in the area in 1981, it had a real game store that sold D&D products but also where I got my early Traveller stuff. Sadly, that game store closed.

One thing I am concerned about: Since Wizards owns TSR's games, and they are in the process of reviving Gamma World, a game I liked, I suspect they could revive Star Frontiers, TSR's equivalent to Traveller...or more likely, to 2300 (I never actually played Star Frontiers or 2300, so I'm going by what I read on the boxes and supplements). And first TSR, and the Wizards, have been active electronically with video games and computer games. Lots of solid crossover there.

Paizo Publishing, who has the Pathfinder game, has been reprinting a lot of good classic sf in their Planet Stories line. Authors whose works would have influenced Traveller, Leigh Brackett and Piers Anthony and others who wrote interplanetary adventures. Maybe not the Third Imperium, but definitely within the spirit of the Traveller rulesets.

I admire both Wizards and Paizo. They have great products. I worry that between them they could really squeeze Traveller out of existence.

On the other hand---Mongoose HAS been licensing some sf, most notably Judge Dredd, so that can be very helpful to draw in newbies!

Gordon Long

 

[Vile]

One thing I am concerned about: Since Wizards owns TSR's games, and they are in the process of reviving Gamma World, a game I liked, I suspect they could revive Star Frontiers, TSR's equivalent to Traveller...or more likely, to 2300 (I never actually played Star Frontiers or 2300, so I'm going by what I read on the boxes and supplements). And first TSR, and the Wizards, have been active electronically with video games and computer games.

I'd be surprised, because Star Frontiers has been available free of charge for years, and there is an active magazine.

http://www.starfrontiers.com/
http://www.starfrontiersman.com/

 

[aramis]

One thing I am concerned about: Since Wizards owns TSR's games, and they are in the process of reviving Gamma World, a game I liked, I suspect they could revive Star Frontiers, TSR's equivalent to Traveller...or more likely, to 2300 (I never actually played Star Frontiers or 2300, so I'm going by what I read on the boxes and supplements). And first TSR, and the Wizards, have been active electronically with video games and computer games. Lots of solid crossover there.

Gordon: SFAD was more akin to Star Wars than to any version of Traveller.

To get the feel of SFAD: No hyperdrive, no artificial gravity. 1G continuous burn, vertical stack ships, many with several maneuver G's. When you hit 1PSL (relative to the local start) you translate into tachyon hyperspace going WAY to Bleeding fast and without steering; you drop out in the next system you hit the gravity gradient of. Weapons are more realistic than Star Wars or Star Trek, but less so than Traveller...

Four corebook races: Humans, Yazirians (Gliding nocturnal monkey-men), Vrusk (Mantis men), Dralazite (Amorphous).