Jovian chronicles/Dream Pod 9

[clementk]

Don't you mean the d20 Mecha Compendium? d20 Mecha itself is by Guardians of Order and as far as I know isn't out yet.

However the d20 Mecha Compendium can be used without d20 Mecha and is full of DP9 goodness. Looks like it wouldn't be too hard to convert them to T20 either.

No Ferret though. Asu-chibi-chan was looking forward to rolling through the streets of Ryhlanor in one.

I'll just have to eyeball the stats and hope d20 Mecha comes out ASAP.

Oh and I'm already planning on using the Gobbers (not so evil Goblins; they're very annoyning though and love to tinker with anything mechcanical; I plan on having them infest some Downports) from Privateer Press so the Coalsuit may have a place IMTU.

Casey

 

[Captain Zoom]

I've had Jovian Chronicles for quite a while and was quite impressed with it, but never played. Recently, I picked up the new Silhouette Core rulebook, the CORE Command setting books, the new edition of Jovian Chronicles and the new edition of Heavy Gear.

I like the Silhouette system largely because it's fairly hard science even though Dream Pod's settings tend more towards High Space Opera or Anime. Strip out the anime components of the settings and I think you'll find the system is suitable for a hard science campaign like Traveller.

Currently, I'm doing a lot of reading and thinking on the Silhouette rules, and I'm trying to work up a Silhouette campaign setting based on Traveller as the setting.

 

[Straybow]

Too much like fantasy for my taste, which is why I like Traveller.

 

[Captain Zoom]

The Jovian Chronicles campaign setting is anime-style, not "fantasy".

But I wasn't talking about the campaign setting. I was talking about the underlying Silhouette Core rules. If you use the core rules and strip away the setting info, the rules are very hard science. You don't need to run an anime-style, or space opera style game with these rules (though the established campaign settings are set up along these lines).

In that way it's like d20 Traveller. Hunter and gang (so I think) want the d20 Traveller engine to be useful for running all sorts of sci-fi games, not just Traveller.

 

[Straybow]

And what, exactly, is not "fantasy" about mecha, anime or otherwise depicted?

 

[jfwking]

Originally posted by Straybow:
And what, exactly, is not "fantasy" about mecha, anime or otherwise depicted?

Science Fiction: Fiction based upon known science and technology or extrapolation of same allowing for handwavium jumps.

Fantasy: Non technology based where powers and effects are not based on known or extrapolated science.

Of course this is circular since there is a point where magic (alchemy) becomes science and a point where science becomes so far ahead of extrapolation that it becomes magic

Thus Traveller, Heavy Gear, Jovian Chronicles etc are science based and therefore science fiction unless you are playing too much with the ancient artifact level of science in which case you have drifted over the line into magic

So fantasy has magic and fighters and barbarians and erm ok so traveller has barbarians but fantasy has magic items that do strange things against scientific laws erm like ancients stuff and in fantasy people can have strange powers like, erm well like psionics and and.

I need a coffee really badly...

 

[jwcarroll60]

Depending on your understanding of the situation any science fiction can be fantasy. Remember that our science would be magic to our own ancestors. That which you can't explain with science (as you know it) is called magic.

 

[TJP]

jwcarroll60, "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." -Arthur C. Clarke

***

Jovian Chronicles is a nice setting, well-detailed and having lots of adventure hooks in it. It's great for near future, Sol system campaigns. It definitely ranks among my top 5 sci-fi RPGs list (not above Traveller nor 2300AD). It can be played as anime-mecha sci-fi or hardish sci-fi without any mecha at all (that's how I would play it BTW). I'd be wary of expanding it with FTL travel, though.

The JC books are well-written and I like their style, most of the short stories in them are great mood-setters. The illustrations in the JC line are good, maybe a bit too anime/manga for my taste, but the overall quality of them is good and they do give you the feel of the game well. The fleet books, in particular, are absolutely fabulous (text & illos both), I'd love to see Traveller ships receive the same kind of treatment.

IMO, the designers of JC had their scientific facts "close enough" and there's no excess of technobabble (quite the contrary in fact). Most of the tech is plausible and even if some parts are wildly optimistic, the game retains it's believability quite well (when you drop the mecha, that is, and the terraforming of Venus). Granted it's not hard sci-fi, but I certainly wouldn't call it science fantasy.

 

[ACK!!]

Originally posted by TJP:
jwcarroll60, "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." -Arthur C. Clarke

***

Jovian Chronicles is a nice setting, well-detailed and having lots of adventure hooks in it. It's great for near future, Sol system campaigns. It definitely ranks among my top 5 sci-fi RPGs list (not above Traveller nor 2300AD). It can be played as anime-mecha sci-fi or hardish sci-fi without any mecha at all (that's how I would play it BTW). I'd be wary of expanding it with FTL travel, though.

What are your thoughts on Dream Pod 9's Space Fantasy setting CORE Command?

That does the FTL I believe. I know its Space Fantasy and not hard sci-fi but it seemed like fun.

Originally posted by TJP:

IMO, the designers of JC had their scientific facts "close enough" and there's no excess of technobabble ... Granted it's not hard sci-fi, but I certainly wouldn't call it science fantasy.

Once again, they made a Science or Space Fantasy series called Core Comand.

It all seems interesting but I heard the CORE Command Player's Handbook was not done to same level of professionalism in terms of editing and completeness that say Jovian Chronicles was.

 

[clementk]

Yes the Pod no longer seems to have the magical touch it used to have where every work was nigh-perfect. rpg.net and other sites have some reviews of the CC books. Keep in mind it is their newest setting release and I suspect I'm not the only one who hasn't bought the core rules (now seperate from a setting) or Core Command itself.

Hmmm, even though the website bills it as a space fantasy I would not classify it as such. Very high technology alone != elements of fantasy nor does FTL. Granted I don't have the books. Perhaps it's a marketing gimmick?

FWIW, the term sci-fi implies a lighter piece of work (IMO lighter than even light science fiction), SF even more so and it can also stand for Speculative Fiction which encomposes a wider range of work with no focus on science at all (especially not the physical science).

I believe a more accurate term for Core Command would be Space Opera (or light Space Opera as Traveller is in many ways Space Opera in the classic sense of the word). Science Fantasy is more akin to the older Planetary Romance genre though even that can contain significant amounts of science in it. (Gene Wolfe's New Sun books fall under that category)
/me off soapbox

One nice thing is the books are dual statted so the equipment book for example can be easily used in a d20/T20 game.

Casey

 

[Malenfant]

I'd love to recommend Core Command, but it's a nightmare to read - the editing is that atrocious. Typoes and nonsensical sentences are all over the place.

You'd think they could have cleaned that up in the hardback that lumped the CC softback and Armory supplements together, but they didn't change a damn thing, and even worse it was a cut-and-paste hackjob. I am not happy at spending my money on that.

The background itself is intriguing, but it really is the barest skeleton. There's hardly any meat there - even less so than Traveller originally had. There's no world design/mapping, no ready made sectors (not even a decent astrography system), it's just all so... vague.

I really want to like it, but it's too flawed. And this is coming from a guy who was really looking forward to it, and who created the CC mailing list to support it...

 

[Colin]

I would have to agree with you. Even though I actually wrote some of the stuff in Armory and Big, Nasty Aliens, it could have used a better editting, or even proofreading, job, and I like DP9. The editing is poor, though I do like the setting. The artwork is pretty cool, too.

Colin

 

[Malenfant]

Well, the actual setting itself is pretty cool and I have no complaints about the content of Armory and BNA (well, apart from the lack of any more info on the Kabayans, Kom'sov and Grob in BNA, plus the random equipment chapter at the end of it), but even ignoring the editing, it's just too... bare I think.

It seems that there's not enough info there to run a decent CC campaign - there are way too many things are thrown in just to be cool with apparently little thought as to the logical consequences, plus the lack of methods presented for GMs to to flesh out the setting (the aforementioned lack of worldbuilding and sectors is one) - and there's not enough info to use it as a basis for a generic ultratech space opera (SilCore is crippled by a very small selection of Perks and Flaws, which makes it basically impossible to make non-human aliens that have anything more that a few tweaked attributes).

 

[ACK!!]

So either deal with the Jovian Chronicles or leave it alone unless your a really Heavy Gear-head. Ha. Sorry.

That was bad. Somebody send the Vargrs to bite at my heels.

It is sad. There was some hope in my heart for Core Command considering Dream Pod 9 has the reputation for creating real quality.

 

[Malenfant]

Well, I've got all the old JC books already plus the new edition and I've got Heavy Gear 3e

No, sadly Core Command doesn't deliver IMO. It really smacks of a rush-job - it's almost like Marc Vezina had this Really Cool Idea... and just left it at that. Lots of neat little concepts just never get developed at all.

Then of course Marc suddenly upped and left DP9. He claimed (as a lot of these ex-RPG designers who go into the computer game industry do) that he was burned out and fed up with the negativity in the RPG industry... but frankly when he left they released the CC Hardback which was so badly edited that it contained sentences that just make no sense in any language, and on top of that they literally cut-and-pasted a whole supplement into one chapter and then didn't correct any of the errors in either of the books, and managed to add a slew of OTHER errors in the process (they added a 5 page ship/alien rogue's gallery in the end, and most of the things had typoes in the labels - the ones that weren't were simply mislabelled!). So I kinda think people are quite justified to be negative about it when faced with that kind of thing.

The new Tribe 8 book is apparently a vastimprovement and contains barely any errors (there's a map of the wrong city apparently, but that's a layout screwup, not the authors fault)... because the people that wrote it actually took the time to edit it carefully and rewrite the old material completely themselves. THAT's the standard that RPGs should be.

TO be fair, though I think only the Core Command books are horribly screwed up. The Heavy Gear, Jovian Chronicles, Tribe 8 and Gear Krieg new editions are much better editing/writing quality than CC was. And the SilCore hardback book itself is well written too.

 

[ACK!!]

Originally posted by Malenfant:
.....

TO be fair, though I think only the Core Command books are horribly screwed up. The Heavy Gear, Jovian Chronicles, Tribe 8 and Gear Krieg new editions are much better editing/writing quality than CC was. And the SilCore hardback book itself is well written too.

That was why I was careful to mention Jovian and Heavy Gear in my post. If I liked mecha games I would go with Heavy Gear in a heartbeat.

Add a huge wealth of great material that has been reviewed consistently as being good stuff. That is the recipe of a good system. That is what I have heard makes Heavy Gear so popular.

Honestly, for me it is somewhat academic since I still need to JTAS 13-24 and The Classic Adventures reprints before I start looking into buying other things.

 

[TJP]

Originally posted by ACK:
What are your thoughts on Dream Pod 9's Space Fantasy setting CORE Command?

Unfortunately, I have not seen it yet as my FLGS does not have it. Originally (when it was announced on DP9's site) I was quite interested of CORE Command, however, the web-published "designer's comments" that followed weren't encouraging (neither were the illos/sketches - rock aliens?! Oh no!). I'm not a big fan of space fantasy nor high space opera and CC seemed to be heading that way. Now after reading all the comments above I'm even less interested in it. Sure I'll check it out once it arrives at my FLGS, but unless it really impresses me, it's very unlikely that I'll actually buy it. A shame really, I had high hopes for this new DP9 sci-fi RPG.

BTW, I didn't know the V-man had left DP9. Not good. RPGs are losing their creative forces to computer games. Money talks...

 

[Malenfant]

RPGs are losing their creative forces to computer games. Money talks...

That and the fact that working for computer game companies usually means less interaction with "fans" and less having to justify what you did, which usually equates to lower blood pressure.

RPG fans have a tendency to be very vocal - and sometimes personal - about their complaints. Traveller fans are certainly no exception to this.

 

[ACK!!]

Originally posted by Malenfant:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />
RPGs are losing their creative forces to computer games. Money talks...

That and the fact that working for computer game companies usually means less interaction with "fans" and less having to justify what you did, which usually equates to lower blood pressure.

RPG fans have a tendency to be very vocal - and sometimes personal - about their complaints. Traveller fans are certainly no exception to this. </font>[/QUOTE]Ain't that the truth.

The R. Talsorian guy Mike Pondsmith is another good example of this.

How long have people been waiting for Cyberpunk V3 ten years or so now?

 

[clementk]

This is hardly a new pattern (look into where a lot of the original boardgame and rpg folk went after board/roleplaying games) and is understandble. Little reward for much effort compared to other venture. Another recent example is John Tynes (and I'm sure there were others but Tynes comes to mind most) about a year ago.

However given the CoreSil rules and settings, Pagan Publishing's CoC supplements, and Unknown Armies there are years worth of gaming in those books and I hope Vezina (and Tynes for that matter) does well in whatever he does.

Casey