Jump accuracy in ANY Traveller System

[BlackBat242]

I fleshed out the ship designs - calling one a plecosomas (Spelling?) named after a sucker fish that scrapes off alge from smooth surfaces.

Plecostomus, pleco, or plec is the common name of several species of freshwater loricariid catfish commonly sold as aquarium fish.

These include:

Hypostomus plecostomus
Hypostomus punctatus
Pterygoplichthys multiradiatus
Pterygoplichthys pardalis


I had a "little" one a few years ago:

 

[aramis]

While GURPS NOBLES and T5 have similarities - there are differences involved that have me scratching my head. It will make for fodder for us to talk about privately or maybe not so privately in another thread in CotI. Maybe "in my traveller universe" perhaps?

When I try to rationalize what is in T5 as far as lands held as fiefs, I find it interesting the number of actual "small hexes" are required for the Landed nobility. With half held on the planet proper, but the number being calculated by the rank of the Noble, it makes me wonder by what mechanism these lands are reserved. When a world joins the Imperium - is it automatically required to hand over a given amount of land for Imperial use - ONLY by the number of nobles assigned to the world at that time? If the world acquires a new noble, is it required then to give up lands to the imperial reservation - or were such lands already handed over when the world joined the Imperium?

With GURPS Nobles, some questions were potentially answered, and some that largely didn't fit with my concept of Nobility in the Imperium. It is the nature of the beast (so to speak) that people in power tend to work to keep what power they have and maybe acquire more. Some for good, some for bad - but the Nobility has to have special perks that set them above others or they're just "others" with a different name. What those perks are - don't make sense unless some real power comes with it. Having a Knight as an acting liaison interface between a world and the Imperium may have some advantages, but where does that knight go from there? Do the fortunes of that Knight's family rise with the growth of the world in question? <shrug> No one knows because it wasn't given much thought in the grand scheme of things. Largely I suspect, because there are SOME things that are strictly "IMTU" and developers of the game lines didn't want to write canon that would leave fans howling at how it violated their campaign universes they had set up over time. But, ideas being what they are - sometimes someone outlining what they did, and even WHY they did it, can provide thoughtful fodder for other GM's to either steal or steal with modifications.

Eventually, I will likely set up some rules for Inaccurate jumps by creating a table. For those of us who don't like Jump masking (such as myself) it might be useful as a secondary means for extending time in Normal space much like jump masking does. A rose by any other name kind of thing...

I would expect the donation to be a ducal fief's worth. Since half the fief is off world, if the world ever rises to a duchy of its own, it's still got enough left for its count...

 

[Hal]

I see what is meant by thread derailment - however, I do not mind it simply because we're carrying on a conversation that were we in a bar or a restaurant, we'd simply be hoping from one topic to another in the course of things. But point taken that this should likely go under a thread "In My Traveller Universe" in the appropriate area. That having been said, one of the things that struck my mind about nobles (to be continued in another thread to be sure!) is the fact that if as a condition of membership in the Imperium as part of its structure (how else does a Noble get his fief in T5?!!!) - how does the world know

1) how many nobles will eventually be assigned to it over the course of history?
2) how much land has to be given for the off-world nobles on their world?

Then there is the issue of "Imperial Subjects" versus "Imperial Citizens". In my Traveller Universe, an imperial citizen is someone who is born on either the Imperial Capital world, or someone who born in the enclave of an Imperial Noble's fief (on the presumption that a fief is accorded the same rules and privilege as an embassy is). A person subject to a sovereign government and can't leave his birth world without a visa or license to emigrate, isn't a citizen of the Imperium. But that's my take on the whole mess that I view the Imperium to be. As a whole, it grew in fits and spurts without someone asking "How do they make it work?" Yes, there are exceptions to rational government and yes, sometimes there are moments where things that don't seem to make sense, are part of a government's process. But power corrupts, and either the Nobles have power, or they don't. For too long, there was never any ONE thing that defined what was the benefit of being an Imperial Noble - never any way that they could be working from a power base of any kind. T5 took a stab at it by discussing Fiefs and I consider that a good thing. While I'm not entirely happy at it, the question now becomes "How does the noble structure function - how do the nobles exercise power?" Then the next step is... "how does the general observation about corruption missing happening in the Imperium. General observed rule is that the nation's "purity" of public spirit and politics that permitted the culture to rise to prominence, becomes corrupted by greedy self serving RICH people who slant the game further to their benefit until eventually, the whole rotten edifice goes imperial or goes into the gutter, to fall at the first strong outside invasion.

We see that Nobles can outfit a huscarle unit - but we don't see HOW they can afford it. It exists because someone thought it sounded cool when they wrote it, but they never had to justify what they wrote. I could write the moon was made of cheese, but I'd have to justify that observation by noting what ever facts I can marshal in defense of my statement, that X is X and Y is Y etc. It wasn't until I took the time to create a spreadsheet detailing the costs involved in raising a battalion of Imperial Soldiers that I found that 1 battalion (In GURPS TRAVELLER GROUND FORCES) cost as much as three Destroyers cost in the same game system. Those Grav tanks cost a LOT. If anyone wants a copy of the spreadsheet, email me to see what went into my TO&E.

In the end - it falls upon the Referee to make the universe come alive in their own minds before they can convincingly portray it for their players. That is why many traveller universes fall under the heading of "In My Traveller Universe".

Hal

 

[Hal]

Someone has a fondness for that "Little Fish" picture. Thanks for the spelling correction.

Going by Distant memory, assuming that I published my musings on the I.R.C. the fuel skimmers were called Plecostomus, the Oilers were called Jovian Dancers or Jovian Divers or something like that. The Base station was a simple Jump 1 ship of dispersed structure that only had the jump drives mounted so that it could get to where it needed to be. I THINK it was designed at Lunion to ship to Ianic...

 

[Hal]

OK - this is sort of an exercise where I will try to show all work, all presumptions behind how I think Misjumps work, and take it from there. Anyone who finds something that they do not like, are free to modify what I present to better suit their worldview (Universe view?!!) of how jumps work in their Traveller Universe.

First, the only things (IMTU) that affect a ship's jump transition - are the presence of bodies at the entry point into Jump space, and the exit point in Jump space. Anything in between, just does not exist in the alternate universe in which the ship enters/exits with regards to normal space.

Second - while Star Wars had the hyperspace jump - a region in which things in normal space can affect hyperspace and force a ship out, Traveller's Jump drive has one thing unique to it, that Hyperspace in Star Wars does not. That is the fuel requirement. In Star Wars, a ship that is dumped into normal space can re-enter hyperspace again with no further consequence. In Traveller, one has to obtain more fuel. That alone can spell a death sentence for any ship that precipitates back into normal space. Yes, coming out near an ice body isn't a death sentence - but then again, coming out near a rock that has no ice, would be.

Third: Traveller has three forms of Jump in a manner of speaking. They are a successful normal jump that reaches the intended destination. To use a Dart throwing analogy, it would be the equivalent of tossing a dart at a board and hitting the bull's eye. Next, we have the issue of hitting the dartboard (which analogy wise, is hitting the star system at all). Then we have the issue where the (again, analogy wise) of a dart striking the board but not sticking. This would (or should) be termined a jump failure to leave the star system at all, or even arrive close to the target. By not being able to stick to the board (so to speak), the dart doesn't even arrive in normal space. Then we have the drunk who tosses the dart and it strikes not the board, not the wall upon which the board is hung, but some other wall entirely - sort of the Misjump that lands the ship multiple parsecs away from its intended destination. What happens when you throw a dart at the proper destination, but fail to put enough energy into the dart's kinetic travel towards the board? It fails to hit the board at all, and gravity makes it drop to the floor.

So, putting it in plain English without analogies:

Perfect dead on jump to precisely where it is desired to be. Best possible result.

Nearly perfect jump, but off a bit.

Ok jump as far as distances go - not as precise as the other two, but at least in the same ballpark (within the star system itself, and requires a long journey, maybe even a week or two at a time - far system or even oort cloud result)

BAD jump that is way out of line from where you wanted to go, but still more or less in the same neighborhood (Multiple AU's out from the intended destination)

Attempt that doesn't work at all - the ship doesn't enter into Jump Space, but some energy was attempted to be used to enter the jump space - nothing happens.

Attempt works, but sends you multiple parsecs out in a random uncontrolled direction.

More in the next post.

 

[Hal]

OK, lets work with the different possibilities and see where it gets us. We know that in Classic Traveller, the only way for a ship to enter into a multi-parsec misjump, was for the ship to have to roll a 13+ on 2d6. That meant under normal conditions, the ship could NOT misjump in that fashion. Unfortunately, we also didn't have a means for the other situations where the ship hits target dead on, or the ship almost hits dead on, or (using the dart analogy) his other "rings" instead of the inner rings of the dart board). Point is however, that Classic Traveller's logic was that only the gravity/planetary body radius affected the jump parameters entering into jump space, and they were essentially within 10 diameters, 100 diameters, and greater than 100 diameters. But so too, did the following conditions also cause the issue of a potential multi-parsec jump:

Badly maintained jump drives (past normal maintenance window of 1 year)
Badly operated jump drives (per missing required Engineer)

And finally, we had the issue of refined fuel versus unrefined fuel. Presumably, because of the energy signature involved from the unrefined fuel not being consistent enough to be predictable.

Jump exit - in that, all that CT had was that any "body" near the exit point into normal space, would shunt the exit point to outside its sphere of area (volume in 3d space) precisely 100 diameters away from the center of that body.

CT of course, did not include stars as "bodies" early on, but the implications were there based upon what science would later become known (as the game rules were crafted in the 1970's).

So, what does this imply to me?

1) precision of the jump in the form of drive energies being focused and permitting the craft to enter jump space is CRUICIAL to the jump. Energy fluctuations - whether due to the equipment itself, or the conversion of fuel to jump energy itself, could result in a misjump.

2) it was possible to hit the bull's eye with the navigation in order to reach the target.

Classic Traveller unfortunately, did not take into account the effects of Navigation on Jumping (ie no skill roll required against that particular skill) nor did it take into account the fact that the pilot had to bring the craft to a designated point at a designated time in order to follow the laid out path created in theory, by the Navigator. Analogy wise, if the jump entry point required a specific vector, a specific time, and a specific location in which to enter jump space from normal space - then the pilot had to insure that his craft met those conditions.

Next we have the issue of the Engineer. CT only required that if the craft required three engineers and only had two engineers, that the possibility of a misjump was present. There was no die roll required referencing the Engineers Skill to determine if some action on the part of the engineer(s) present, could avoid or result in, a multi-parsec random jump.

All other factors being equal, a NORMALLY crewed ship with its full complement of engineers, with its engines being in good maintenance, using good fuel, could not EVER result in a misjump (again, no die rolls required of any of navigator, pilot or engineer).

At least CT set the foundation of what later incarnations of Traveller would have to follow in some shape or form.

 

[Hal]

Next we have MegaTraveller. This was not a game system that I had ever used, and consequently, it never stuck in my mind that there were times where an "inaccurate" jump could occur. An inaccurate jump was one where the ship still entered into Jump space, but failed to hit the bull's eye. Instead, the ship could land between 8 and 48 hours distant from its target destination. This however, only potentially occurs if/when a mishap results from the attempted jump. Reading the segment on preparing for the jump, we have only TWO skill groups rolled for during the process. They are: Navigation and Engineering. Navigation only results in a plot for getting to the destination. There are no mishaps involved with the navigation roll (as best as I can see - so I can be wrong!). Preparing for jump is the first engineer roll, and can be hazardous. What precisely that means relative to a jump, I can not determine with a quick read through. Going to have to spend more time when I can on the rules set to see what can happen with a failed "prep engines roll. MegaTraveller has what is called as "Safe Jump" classification, where all elements identified in the earlier Classic Traveller as not ever resulting in a Misjump, will not produce a mishap result. Otherwise, all other possibilities include a mishap result.

But this is where it seems to get a little odd from my point of view. When a mishap occurs, you roll against a table, where the mishap values rolled against, mirror the "success numbers to obtain a success" - ie 3+, 7+ 11+ etc... If one rolls a range that is between 3 to 6, one level of mishap occurs, between a 7 and 10, another different level of mishap occurs, and if a roll higher than that - a massively bad mishap occurs. But how to translate that to "cause" in the Traveller Universe, is seemingly random. Was it because the Engineer messed up? It would appear so, because it only occurs (or so it seems to someone not used to the system!) during the engage Jump drive die roll against the engineer's skill. There is no piloting issue, nor is there a navigator element to this equation. That implies then, that the skill to "aim" the ship towards its target has no bearing on how well the ship exits jump space into normal space near its intended target light years away!

Point is however, that MT did in fact, have a means for determining if a ship didn't land dead center in the figurative "Bull's Eye" location of near the planned upon point of exit.

To me, that implies that it is the machinery that rips open the entry point into Jump Space most responsible for whether or not a ship ends up going multiple parsecs from its intended destination, or ends up a mere few hours from its intended destination.

The other "question" I would have asked had I been either a GM for MegaTraveller or a player is this:

"Exit point is 1d6 * 8 hours from intended destination."

Is this point based SOLELY upon the Manuever Drive of the ship itself that made the transit into and out of Jump space? A maneuver drive 1 starship will always be more accurate than a maneuver drive 6 starship when it comes to how far away it exits from its intended point - because 6g's can travel further in 1 hour than can a 1g ship?

 

[Hal]

I'm going to skip over Traveller The New Era, in part because I don't have the reference material at hand, and in part because TNE had a fairly substantial number of changes in how ships worked that I don't want to consider what happens when a ship runs out of fuel for maneuvering. Accuracies in jump that place a ship outside of its fuel operational range were an added complication that would have been bad for the player characters.

That having been said, let's now look at GURPS TRAVELLER (yes, I'm skipping T4, but in my eyes, T4 and T5 were game systems that had a fair number of similarities yet are definitely different from each other, but more on that later)

In GURPS TRAVELLER, we now see the instance where three skill rolls are required to perform a successful jump in Traveller. They are: Pilot, Navigation, and Engineering. A successful jump requires that ALL three rolls are successful. Anyone who knows statistics, will tell you that in order for a die roll on 3d6 to succeed, the probability is based upon the odds of rolling any one given combination of dice. But it gets more interesting if you have multiple rolls involved. For instance, the odds of rolling an overall success when two die rolls have to be under a given "value" is equal to the odds of success for the first roll times the odds of success for the second roll. A roll of 10 or under has a 50% statistical probability of success on 3d6. For TWO successive rolls to succeed, the odds drop down to 1 in four...

First Roll = success, second roll = failure = Overall Failure
First Roll = success, second roll = success = Overall Success
First Roll = Failure, second roll = failure = Overall Failure
First Roll = failure, second roll = success = Overall Failure

.5 x .5 = .25

GURPS TRAVELLER also had the rule that successive attempts gained a further penalty of -1 to the attempted success of the roll.

So, what exactly were the odds of success if all three personnel (pilot, navigator, and engineer) had professional skill levels of 12? The odds of success for a 12 or under is approximately 74.something chance, so lets call it a 75% chance of success to keep the math simple. .75 x .75 x .75 results in a chance of success equal to .421875. That means that three professional skilled individuals had a less than 50/50 chance of entering into Jump space, let alone arrive at their destination in a proper manner.

When do Misjumps occur in GURPS TRAVELLER?

"A simple failure means the operation was unsuccessful, but may be attempted again (at a -1 penalty per subsequent attempt). A critical failure (or a simple failure, if the crew is rushed or fatigued) on any roll means that a potential mishap exists; roll again, with any success indicating that the mishap has been avoided, but the failure still counts. A second critical failure results in disaster."

GURPS also has it such that programs operating in lieu of a person, treat any critical failure as a critical failure, no second roll to avoid the critical failure as a person gets when exercising their skill.

An astrogation mishp results in a mis-exit somewhere between the intended destination, and the origination point. In Classic Traveller, this would be the space between either star system, FAR outside of either the originating star system's outer orbits or the destination star system's outer orbits. That is the equivalent of entering dead space without a chance to refuel unless the GM were merciful and willing to grant the players an ice body nearby.

Point is, in a strictly simulationist universe, that location could be devoid of any refueling opportunities, and the ship would have to have its crew enter into low berth, and accelerate towards its nearest star system and hope that they reach their destination alive.

The thing to note in GURPS TRAVELLER is that its powerplants operate up to 200 years on a single "fuel unit" and that the low berths can be powered for a fairly long time on ordinary power cells. This grants survival options not normally found in other versions of Traveller.

 

[Hal]

So, what are the forms of accuracy in Traveller where it comes to jumps?

There is the temporal accuracy - the random element of how long a ship spends in jump space. CT originally stated 1 week. Later in time CT would amend that to roughly 1 week, plus or minus a given time. This temporal issue would change in its value from game system to game system, but it was essentially a random element that no player could control.

There is the spatial accuracy - the random distance from the planned upon exit point. MT accounted for it as a result of a failed engineering roll in the form of a minor mishap. Otherwise, we have to wait for T5 to see that same function, or an allusion to it in Mongoose Traveller (but not table or formula for calculating it or so it seems).

Then there is a misjump where the ship never leaves its point of origin, but enters jump space and exits at the same point of entry. This is present in both GURPS TRAVELLER and T5.

And finally, we have the wild misjump, where the ship can exit at a location that is up to 36 parsecs distant using CT rules, and up to 30 parsecs distant in GURPS TRAVELLER.

 

[Hal]

Begin show all work phase:

My goal is to try to account for BOTH temporal issues (time) and Spatial errors (errors in distance) with this system.

Time seems to be variable with no controls or causes by means of player character skills. I'd like to change that.

Pilot: he has to make the ship physically conform to the "plot entry" required by the navigator. The better he approaches this ideal, the better he can make the astrogator's plan be as intended.

Astrogator: he has to formulate the approach as well as the energy requirements to reach the intended destination. If either is wrong, both the temporal aspect or the spatial aspect of his flight plan will be off.

Engineer: he has to keep the energy output on spec to match what the navigator requires. Perhaps the variance in energy states are required in order to "program the ship's behavior while in jump space" - which might explain why the ship can unexpectedly enter into a long distance jump of multiple parsecs (beyond what the ship can normally achieve with a controlled jump!). It might explain why the fuel purity could have such a catastrophic effect on the jump.

So, the idea here is to break down what is involved in the jump, and who or what affects the dual aspect of time versus location aspects of a jump.

If throwing a dart at the dart board requires accuracy to hit the target dead center, we have to have the following:

The hand guiding the projectile precisely towards the center, with the correct kinetic energy involved, and releasing the projectile at the optimum point of its motion from a state at rest to a state of free flight. The stabilization of the projectile determines whether it wobbles or not and is inaccurate in flight to reach its target. Analogy wise - engine accuracy might also affect whether or not the jump flight is stable/accurate.

So - pilot maneuvering the ship determines how accurate "spatially" speaking, the ship will be once it enters into jump space.

Navigation affects the spatial AND temporal aspects of the journey. A miscalculation of the energy required might also impact on the wild jump function.

Engineering affects the temporal aspect or the wild jump aspect

In ALL Traveller incarnations, a "Ship Destroyed" result is possible. From the perspective of the universe, the ship never exits jump space. Is it because the temporal aspect results in a time outside known experienced time? For instance, if a ship misjumps in the year 107 after the start of the Third Imperium - and doesn't exit jump space until 1,000 years later - it would have been presumed destroyed until it exits jump space in the year 1107 at the location where the star would have been 1,000 years ago. Since the galaxy itself is moving at a distinct speed, that distance might be a LONG way away, simulating a multi-parsec misjump. Of course, Traveller seems to treat any temporal misjump as only affecting the ship, and not the universe itself, which to me never made sense, but that's another issue entirely. Ship destroyed results might mean just that, or it might be that the temporal issue isn't measured in hours or days or even relatively short years - but instead, thousands or even millions of years. Elapsed times aboard ships might be 1 for 1 where one day aboard the ship might be 1 day in the real universe (in which case, the crew will die of ship failure before they exit jump space if the time duration is measured in hundreds or thousands of years after the jump). It might be a time ratio of 1/1000 where 1 day aboard the ship is 1,000 days, etc - you get the idea I'm sure).

But, back to this exercise...

Pilot controls spatial errors because his attempt to be on the fight path required by the navigator might not be within tolerances for the jump.

Navigator controls all aspects because his calculations have to involve everything.

Engineer controls wild jumps and temporal variances

What remains, is deciding how much of a variance comes into play based on what...

Next post will attempt to quantify the variances and why.

 

[Condottiere]

I've considered the temporal factor when I tried to create an algorithm to account for jumps/misjumps, but if you are good enough to avoid them, you might be good enough to create them that will allow you to misjump earlier than seven days.

 

[Hal]

I've considered the temporal factor when I tried to create an algorithm to account for jumps/misjumps, but if you are good enough to avoid them, you might be good enough to create them that will allow you to misjump earlier than seven days.

I agree with you there. Probably the best way to put it is that all the temporal "benefits" that can be gained by the "accuracy" are:

Making your astrogation/navigation roll by a given amount, brings your time in jump space closer to the standard 164 hours.

So, if a bonus to the navigation roll results in a +2 bonus to the time spent in space? Then roll the 2d6 flux roll, subtract 7. This is the projected result. if the roll was a 7, it is already as accurate as can be, and it doesn't change the time in jump space. If the flux roll results in a -1, and your bonus makes it change by 2, then it brings it 2 closer to zero (or net result of zero). If the roll was -4, it brings it closer to zero by 2, making it a -2 instead of -4.

In my campaign universe, not making it PRECISELY at the time intended, means that planets move a distance equal to circumference of orbit/time to travel the orbit in hours x the number of hours that you missed your window by. That of course, adds to the time required to reach your main world.

 

[esampson]

So, what are the forms of accuracy in Traveller where it comes to jumps?

There is the temporal accuracy . . .
There is the spatial accuracy . . .

Depending upon which system you are using and/or interpretation there can also be vector accuracy that needs to be considered. As someone mentioned in an earlier post some rules have said that velocity is retained during the jump.

This actually makes a lot of sense to me since otherwise it means that a ship emerges from jump with no velocity and what does that even mean? No velocity related to the star? No velocity related to the planet? Since everything is space is in motion why is the ship's emergence velocity 0 relative to one particular body and not another?

So to me it is a given that a ship has a velocity when it precipitates. Accepting that there is a world of difference between emerging at a given point travelling at 300 km/s toward the planet and emerging at the exact same point travelling at 300 km/s away from the planet.

 

[aramis]

OK - this is sort of an exercise where I will try to show all work, all presumptions behind how I think Misjumps work, and take it from there. Anyone who finds something that they do not like, are free to modify what I present to better suit their worldview (Universe view?!!) of how jumps work in their Traveller Universe.

First, the only things (IMTU) that affect a ship's jump transition - are the presence of bodies at the entry point into Jump space, and the exit point in Jump space. Anything in between, just does not exist in the alternate universe in which the ship enters/exits with regards to normal space.

this is different from official traveller. (It's not strongly worded as such in CT, but the jumpspace article makes it clear anything big enough in the way ends your jump

Second - while Star Wars had the hyperspace jump - a region in which things in normal space can affect hyperspace and force a ship out, Traveller's Jump drive has one thing unique to it, that Hyperspace in Star Wars does not. That is the fuel requirement. In Star Wars, a ship that is dumped into normal space can re-enter hyperspace again with no further consequence. In Traveller, one has to obtain more fuel. That alone can spell a death sentence for any ship that precipitates back into normal space. Yes, coming out near an ice body isn't a death sentence - but then again, coming out near a rock that has no ice, would be.

You're quite wrong about star wars' hyperspace - hitting the wall "ends your trip real quick"... it is implied strongly that such an occurrence DESTROYS THE SHIP.

Third: Traveller has three forms of Jump in a manner of speaking. They are a successful normal jump that reaches the intended destination. To use a Dart throwing analogy, it would be the equivalent of tossing a dart at a board and hitting the bull's eye. Next, we have the issue of hitting the dartboard (which analogy wise, is hitting the star system at all). Then we have the issue where the (again, analogy wise) of a dart striking the board but not sticking. This would (or should) be termined a jump failure to leave the star system at all, or even arrive close to the target. By not being able to stick to the board (so to speak), the dart doesn't even arrive in normal space. Then we have the drunk who tosses the dart and it strikes not the board, not the wall upon which the board is hung, but some other wall entirely - sort of the Misjump that lands the ship multiple parsecs away from its intended destination. What happens when you throw a dart at the proper destination, but fail to put enough energy into the dart's kinetic travel towards the board? It fails to hit the board at all, and gravity makes it drop to the floor.

I don't think the dart analogy very apt. Artillery is far better.

 

[Hal]

You're quite wrong about star wars' hyperspace - hitting the wall "ends your trip real quick"... it is implied strongly that such an occurrence DESTROYS THE SHIP.

Seems that West End Star Wars would disagree to some extent. But - you're right, the idea of trying to hyper into a star was bad juju from that one scene in the first Star Wars ever screened.

 

[mike wightman]

Marc's original jumpspace article actually states in a couple of places that it is only during jump entry and jump exit that objects can affect jump.

 

[Condottiere]

If gravity manipulation is the fundamental basis for an interstellar society and technology, than if you use it to hop around, anything that's large enough can prematurely terminate your sennight voyage.

 

[Hal]

If gravity manipulation is the fundamental basis for an interstellar society and technology, than if you use it to hop around, anything that's large enough can prematurely terminate your sennight voyage.

The problem is - in the original rules, it was very specific. Only those things within 100 diameters affected the entry within jump space (along with fuel issues, engineering issues and engine maintenance issues). Only those things within 100 diameters of the exit point affected where a ship would exit jump space, and even then, it was that the ship could not exit within 100 diameters, but would precipitate out.

To the best of my knowledge, none of the game systems that came after CT introduced the concept of a jump being interrupted in mid-destination between two star system until up to about GURPS TRAVELLER and subsequently T5.

Hell, in the playtest rules version of T5 before the book was published, the rule was that ANY ship larger than the ship entering into jump space, could precipitate the ship back to its location providing the Larger ship could cross the path of jump between the origin point and the exit point if at ANY Time prior to exiting at the destination, the ship was within 100 diameters of the path the jumping ship took. THAT made jump space travel a major nightmare! You could never have a ship enter jump space in a region with heavy traffic because sooner or later, an inbound ship would appear more or less where the jumping ship exited normal space (if it were larger than the jumping craft).

it almost made it imperative to build the largest ship you could so that it would never be forced out of jump space by a larger hull.

Then you have the issue or the Ort Cloud. It has planetoid sized ice chunks out there and the numbers aren't even known. But if the oort cloud circles the star system like rings around a gas giant, then the only way to avoid them is to enter the star system above the eliptic or below it. Since in theory, space is three dimensional, and Traveller Maps are two dimensional - an Oort Cloud should not be a problem any more than the sun should be between two worlds where the plane of travel are not parallel to each other, but one slightly above the other.

This is yet another reason why I don't much like Jump Masking per se. Yes, stars should exert their own 100 diameter limit much like Gas Giants do. But masking? Seriously?

I'd say to avoid it entirely. If the idea is to force the ships to travel through normal space for longer durations of time, then come up with something as simple as Jump accuracy, and make it so that the scatter is significant enough as to make a difference. No more arriving precisely at the 100 diameter limit, and with my "rule" for my traveler Universe, even AIMING for the 100 diameter limit to aid in accuracy is no longer a good idea, but a bad one.

 

[Hal]

Marc's original jumpspace article actually states in a couple of places that it is only during jump entry and jump exit that objects can affect jump.

It effectively states that once in jump space, nothing can affect a ship there. The retcon goes back to the fact that back in the day with THE STARSHIP OWNERS MANUAL, the description of a ship entering jump space and exiting jump space, indicated that it produced an electromagnetic flash that can be sensed with sensors (Ie visible spectrum light). GURPS went so far as to quantify the value of this flash such that sensors of a certain sensitivity could spot the flash itself.

In fact? In my campaign universe, two ships that observe a jump flash from the same source, can triangulate the distance if they knew the distance and relationship between themselves and the bearing of the flash itself. Otherwise, all that a single ship can get is bearing and strength of flash.

I LIKE that particular change, but not the jump masking effects. But hey, others are capable of using it or not as they see fit, just as I see fit to make the minor changes that I do to my universe. In my Traveller Universe, the ship crews are LARGER than given in the rules simply because I use the 24/7 rule for shifts in GURPS STARSHIPS and because I look at how nearly impossible it is to create a security detachment to guard the perimeter of a starship or to even maintain a 24/7 watch AND guard all of the entry points of a ship, its bay, etc.

So, in my Traveller Universe, ratings bunk together four to a stateroom capable of handling up to 16 men bunking together. Officers are still bunked two to a room, and the captain gets a double sized stateroom for his own - this in addition to offices and conference rooms, brigs, gyms and even galleries for food prep. Then I populate the ships with sufficient lifeboats that at least 1/3rd of the crew can exit the hull quickly without the ships boats etc. Provisions for all crew to abandon ship quickly are required for the ship design where possible (ie there might be an exception or ten in the navy!).

 

[Whipsnade]

I had an internally consistent model for jump which included both masking and shadows. I developed it for my TML Newbie Essay and even had someone who taught logic at Brown University check it over for holes.

T5 killed it.

Now I'm back at square one.