CT Only: Jump Torpedoes

[Timerover51]

I came across the following statements concerning jump message torpedoes while going through my digital copy of Adventure 4: Leviathan.

Ready Use Lockers. Normally one RPV drone in 3, and one jump message torpedo in 5.

Located on Page 31. Emphasis Added.

Main Magazine. Missile and other munitions storage. Excluding those listed at locations C2, D2/3/5, and E2/3/5, normal complement is four jump message torpedoes, sixteen missiles, eight RPV drones, and four personnel capsules, plus various explosive stores for planetary expeditions. The lift shaft outside connects C to G decks, and is used to move ordnance to C and E decks.

Also located on Page 31. Emphasis Added.

Jump Message Torpedoes: Consists of little more than a jump drive, fuel and a recording unit. 'J-Torps' are used to send messages by automatically broadcasting a pre-recorded tape at the conclusion of their jumps.

Located on Page 35. Emphasis in original.

The 1977 edition of Book 2 of the LBBs mentions "jump capable message torpedoes" as possible alternatives to carrying missiles. Does anyone know of a description of such Jump-capable torpedoes and some idea on prices? One of these clearly would be of enormous usefulness in the case of a misjump, or loss of Jump-drive in an uninhabited system or nearly-uninhabited system.

 

[Cryton]

Nope. What you have found is all there is. IIRC, Leviathan and the '77 CT rules are the only mention of J-Torps. By the time that the next CT rules came out, they had been declared "Non-Cannon".

Sorry.

 

[boomslang]

Nope. What you have found is all there is.

Interestingly enough, the IISS IGS variants of the Leviathan class are modified to carry two Type S Scout/Couriers (at a penalty to the drive performance of the mothership) [Ed. note: the naval architecture of the basic Leviathan design leaves much to be desired in terms of efficiency, but I digress], however it always seemed to me that if message service was deemed to be more important to a mission than Jump-capable life boats might be, you could always swap one of those Scout/Couriers out for an Xboat.

Neither the mythical J-torps nor the familiar Xboats would be helpful once the mothership got several parsecs out into uncharted space of course, and here I am deliberately ignoring the canon-warping nature of the wondrous Xboats as they themselves are written, but it seemed a more-consistent-with-the-OTU alternative, at least to me back in the day and for IGS purposes.

 

[Timerover51]

Nope. What you have found is all there is. IIRC, Leviathan and the '77 CT rules are the only mention of J-Torps. By the time that the next CT rules came out, they had been declared "Non-Cannon".

Sorry.

I sort of thought that, as I have a lot of the early books, but I was not sure about 3rd Party publications.

Going with what is there, a jump drive is required, a fairly powerful communication broadcast system, and a guidance system. You would not need a lot of fuel, as the ship carrying the torpedo could power up the jump capacitors from its own power plant. Once the torpedo reached the target system, it would need some fuel to orient onto the system's main world for broadcasting its message, and some form of collapsible antenna for the message. The smallest Jump Drive in the 1977 rules is 10 tons volume, and is capable of Jump-2 with a 100 dTon ship.

If you allow for 1 (One) dTon for the volume of a scaled-down Jump Drive, and 1 (One) dTon for the other equipment, allow the firing ship to supply power to the Jump capacitors, and if the version of Jump Drive requires a Liquid Hydrogen Bubble, the firing ship could supply that as well, you have one-tenth of an "A" Jump Drive acting on one-fiftieth of the volume of a 100 dTon ship. With that, you might be able to get Jump-10 if pushed, but I would settle for Jump-5.

Now, Jump Drive "A" costs 10 Million Credits for 10 dtons of volume. I would not assume a straight 1 Million Credits per dTon of volume of Jump Drive, so as to allow for some controls which will be present regardless of volume, so maybe figure the cost of a 2 dTon Jump-5-capable message torpedo at 2 to 2.5 Million Credits, with 1.5 to 2 Million Credits for the Jump Drive and one-half Million Credits for every else. Not exactly cheap, but worth every credit in an emergency.

Comments?

 

[BlackBat242]

I would find that acceptable - especially if it is specified that the compact drive lacks the stability elements that make jump safe for living beings - meaning that only the inanimate contents of the torpedo will make the jump intact - even microbes would likely be "killed" during jump.

So no sending a baby, or a favorite cat, to safety in the J-torp - and no accidental spreading of the alien disease that has wiped out the colony via contamination in the J-torp.

I would also say that all electronics not part of the drive would also have to be powered down during jump, meaning that the message(s) being sent, and indeed all programming, would be in non-volatile solid-state memory devices (crystal matrix, etc), with an automatic "reboot" being performed after the torp drops out of jump.

 

[Hyphen]

Hey - you may have come up with a fourth option to save the j-torp!!!

(I've saved a discussion of the others on my web site under Repair Bays ==> Canon Problems ==> CANON PROBLEM 1: Jump Torpedoes)

 

[RandyB]

I would find that acceptable - especially if it is specified that the compact drive lacks the stability elements that make jump safe for living beings - meaning that only the inanimate contents of the torpedo will make the jump intact - even microbes would likely be "killed" during jump.

So no sending a baby, or a favorite cat, to safety in the J-torp - and no accidental spreading of the alien disease that has wiped out the colony via contamination in the J-torp.

I would also say that all electronics not part of the drive would also have to be powered down during jump, meaning that the message(s) being sent, and indeed all programming, would be in non-volatile solid-state memory devices (crystal matrix, etc), with an automatic "reboot" being performed after the torp drops out of jump.

While that makes technological sense, it eliminates adventure options, however cliched they may be. A cold berth in a jump torpedo (manufactured as such or jury-rigged) is a guaranteed adventure seed.

 

[atpollard]

While that makes technological sense, it eliminates adventure options, however cliched they may be. A cold berth in a jump torpedo (manufactured as such or jury-rigged) is a guaranteed adventure seed.

Would this be a good time to advocate for Starships (jump capable craft) less than 100 dTons? :CoW:

 

[Xenon]

Would this be a good time to advocate for Starships (jump capable craft) less than 100 dTons? :CoW:

on this topic, we may assume that you CAN jump with a smaller craft, but that the risk of such is too high for it to be a viable choice for an expensive manned ship.... perhaps with issues such as radiation, some kind of time variable to the jump bubble, or the smaller jump bubble being lethal somehow. but a mechanical unmanned torpedo would be able to deal with most of that, and i have seen options in mongoose for fuel tanks external to the jumping ship.

 

[RandyB]

Would this be a good time to advocate for Starships (jump capable craft) less than 100 dTons? :CoW:

IMTU or IYTU, no problem. In the OTU, Word of Miller has forbidden.

I'd like to see it as an "official" tech option for all ATU, with the specific notation that it is intentionally excluded from the OTU, rather than the current status quo.

 

[kilemall]

Would this be a good time to advocate for Starships (jump capable craft) less than 100 dTons? :CoW:

 

[atpollard]

[shudder] ... I had to read "The Stranger".

... Let's just say that Albert and I shall have to agree to disagree.


(Now I may have to find some utter drivel like "Priest-kings of Gor" just to get that memory out of my mind ... Quick, hand me something by Dickens!)


"If one advances confidently in the direction of his dreams, and endeavors to live the life which he has imagined, he will meet with a success unexpected in common hours." - Thoreau

 

[Timerover51]

IMTU or IYTU, no problem. In the OTU, Word of Miller has forbidden.

I'd like to see it as an "official" tech option for all ATU, with the specific notation that it is intentionally excluded from the OTU, rather than the current status quo.

I will see what I can work up and post it to the Ship's Locker. I personally like the idea of message torpedoes. James Schmitz used them in his "Agent of Vega" back in 1949.

The agent turned to a screen on his left, in which a torpedo-like twenty-foot tube of metal had appeared, seemingly suspended in space and spinning slowly about its axis. Actually, it was some five miles from the ship—which was as close as it was healthy to get to a homing pigeon at the end of its voyage—and following it at the ship's exact rate of speed, though it was driven by nothing except an irresistible urge to get to its "roost," the pattern of which had been stamped in its molecules. The roost was on Iliff's ship, but the pigeon would never get there. No one knew just what sort of subdimensions it flashed through on its way to its objective or what changes were wrought on it before it reappeared, but early experiments with the gadget had involved some highly destructive explosions at its first contact with any solid matter in normal space.

Emphasis added.

 

[BlackBat242]

Would this be a good time to advocate for Starships (jump capable craft) less than 100 dTons? :CoW:

In the mid-1980s I designed a CT TL14 66dt J2 M3 small scout ship - armor 2, 1 turret (2 pulse lasers), 1 4-ton stateroom (double occupancy), 2.5 dt cargo (plus .3 dt hidden cargo space). I used HG2, and did everything "by the book" except for the displacement.

No small craft, no life-boat - it was intended to operate with a larger long-range ship. I worked it up based on a model I had made as a mid-teenager back in the mid 1970s, using the fuselage and center wing box of a B747 - the wing box is the 66dt ship.

 

[Timerover51]

With the emergence of the Cepheus Engine, I will need to revisit the idea of Jump-capable message torpedoes, as there is no fixed canon for it, and anyone can use it as the basic for his or hers own game design. As part of the assumption of canon is very small fusion plants, and some form of reactionless drive for things like speeders and grav tanks. you can field a small jump message torpedo with a very small maneuvering drive to get it close to the main world of a system. I will need to poke around with this, but I already have some ideas after re-reading the thread.

 

[BackworldTraveller]

Just how small is the smallest jump drive? What is the fuel requirement?

How small is the smallest fusion drive?

How does it astrogate?

You have to get it 100D from ship, planet, star, etc.

It arrives 100D from planets, star etc. So, it has to orient, navigate, manoeuvre and communicate on arrival.

How reliable is it?

Is it recoverable?

 

[Proneutron]

It arrives 100D from planets, star etc. So, it has to orient, navigate, manoeuvre and communicate on arrival.

Something we could have designed 40 years ago. This is the simple part.

 

[Proneutron]

With the emergence of the Cepheus Engine, I will need to revisit the idea of Jump-capable message torpedoes, as there is no fixed canon for it,

It was decanonized in '81 if I remember correctly. Someone like Aramis would know the exact circumstances probably.

 

[whartung]

I don't understand the consternation over "Jump Torpedoes".

I mean, "so what".

So what if a smaller than 100D ton device can go through jump space.

So what if it can be unmanned.

I honestly don't see any gross impact to pretty much anything.

At worst, it tweaks what the X-Boat network looks like. But that's like pining over the loss of lighthouses. It makes communication "cheaper", but, frankly, the cost of communication with the X-Boat network is so tiny combined to its value plus the overall economy of even a "small ship" universe as to be unnoticeable.

The core fundamental still exists: communication is as fast as Jump. Whether it's a Jump Torpedo, or some guy crammed in a box with "Pony Express" scribbled on the side with a magic marker.

Or is it combat? Sending a bunch of drones through jump space to attack...something. But there's the economy thing. If that's an issue, if this is indeed an effective tactic, automated 100 ton "jump missiles" would do that job just as well, and aren't expensive enough (especially at the Imperial scale) to say "gee, maybe we shouldn't do that, save a few credits".

So perhaps someone can share with me the game braking impact of the Jump Torpedo.

 

[Proneutron]

I don't understand the consternation over "Jump Torpedoes".

I don't know. I haven't seen any. Any examples you can point to?