Knowledge Cascade skill question

[jfetters]

In the T20 Traveller's Handbook it states:

When this skill is selected, the character immediately must pick a specific area of knowledge that is represented by the skill. This skill may be taken any number of times but each selection must be in a new area of knowledge.

So the way that I read this is that no character will ever have a K/ skill higher than 1. Is this right?

 

[Savar]

that has to be a typo because there are classes that require Knowledge skills at 5+ ranks

 

[tjoneslo]

Your interpretation is incorrect, and the text is a little confusing. You can not have a "Knowledge" skill. You must choose a specialization. But you can put as many ranks into each specialization as you wish.

 

[jfetters]

I figured it had to be you could increase the actual level as much as possible, like most everything else Traveller, but the wording for that is extremely poor.

And to me it still reads that each knowledge specialization needs to be different each time.

 

[BetterThanLife]

It looks like a cut and paste from the feat section. Ooops.

 

[stofsk]

For example, you can have K/The History of Coins, not the Droyne casting ones but just regular, coins. Maybe you're a coin fanatic. You can have K/Imperial History and K/Zhodani Fashion Trends.

K/Coin history is at skill rank 3
K/Imperial History is at skill rank 3
K/Zhodani Fashion Trends is at skill rank 5.

Your guy might be a tailor. He lives in the Spinward Marches, sees some guy wearing something unusual to your eyes but not suspicious. You make a check, find that it's Zhodani. Suddenly you're in the middle of an intriguing plot with the deadly mind masters... TO BE CONTINUED...

 

[jfetters]

Okay, I think I am getting the gist here -

So to follow your example, I can buy any amount of a particular Knowledge specialization, but I cannot add to it later.

Is that correct?

 

[stofsk]

No, you can add to it later. I think you're reading into the rules what's not there. You can choose to increase any skill by any amount, with the sole exception of speak and read/write languages. (where you spend a skill point and it's hey presto, you can speak that language)

 

[tjoneslo]

Does the text under the other cascade skills (Technical, Perform, Craft) is as confusing as well? They are all cascade skills and should work exactly the same way.

 

[Valarian]

Originally posted by stofsk:
No, you can add to it later. I think you're reading into the rules what's not there. You can choose to increase any skill by any amount, with the sole exception of speak and read/write languages. (where you spend a skill point and it's hey presto, you can speak that language)

I treat the language skills the same way a other skills, with the level indicating degrees of fluency. A skill level of 1 will get you through the basic greetings and buying stuff in the market. A skill level of 4 means you can just about hold a conversation.

The higher the skill level, the more can be done in the language without having to roll.

 

[stofsk]

That is certainly an interesting house rule. I've even thought about something like that.

 

[Savar]

hmmm, interesting
common use fluency would be 5 ?

 

[far-trader]

For what it's worth here's my own similar take on the language skills for T20:

READ/WRITE LANGUAGE (EDU)

CASCADE SKILL - Choose language type. The ranks allowed for Language (Native) are not limited in the normal per level manner but instead begin with ranks equal to Edu (for free).

The maximum ranks a native language can have is Edu +3. Other languages are treated as Cross Class skills unless the character has the "Linguist" feat. The maximum ranks other languages can have is ½ Edu +1. Naturally this means I handle languages and communication a little differently. Your ability to get across you ideas is limited by your Education and experience. Simple everyday communication is very easy (DC 5) and won't usually need to be checked.

Speak Language skill is handled the same way.

There are no "free" languages for Int bonus (you already get free skill slots to spend for high Int anyway). The only "free" language skills are those based on racial choice and they are based on Edu as noted above.

Full fluency would be around 10 ranks and difficult communication (explaining something new as in teaching) would probably be a DC 10-15 check. Composing works of word art (poems and such) would probably be a DC 20+ for quality attempts.

Of course I still haven't got a game going to actually play with the idea so I'm still not sure how well it would work.

 

[Valarian]

Originally posted by Savar:
hmmm, interesting
common use fluency would be 5 ?

Skill level 6 - Basic Fluency. You can hold your own in most non-technical situations
Skill level 8 - Full Fluency. You can hold a business meeting or give a technical presentation
Skill level 10 - Native Speaker. "What city did you say you came from?"

Skill levels beyond this would just decrease the chances of being found out as a foreigner, or allow you to imitate dialects and accents.

I like Far Trader's idea of having the skill relate to an ability. However, I'd probably pick Int rather than Edu as the stat to use. A formal education is not necessarily going to give you the ability the communicate better. In some cases, this'll act as a hinderance with the character overcomplicating their verbalisations to the detriment of general understanding.

 

[stofsk]

I think that's probably too much investment. Lets Keep It Simple, (Stupid ).

Three ranks: rank 1 is Basic, rank 2 is Intermediate, and rank 3 is Advanced. You don't need to roll for DCs or anything like that, but things like Forgery or Craft/Writing need the language at an advanced level or you incur penalties.

You get your automatic languages. So Solomani, no matter where they're from, or what their EDU is, get Galanglic. Vargr, similarly, will always get Galanglic and Iriltok. The bonus languages you get from INT remain, but they're applied to the basic-intermediate-advanced scale.

 

[Lochlaber]

10 for full fluency in a language, when 10 is generally considered to be better than average in any other skill. With a 10, plus bonuses, you can take off and land a starship, navigate between the stars and fix your engine when it breaks down (given the parts) but you consider that the equivalent of a native speaker?

1-basic How do I get to the spaceport.

2-intermediate Giving and taking directions can unserstand most conversations

3-native Self-explanatory

4-advanced can understand technical conversations, even if you don't understand what they are talking about, say like 2 gearheads talking to each other. To understand what they are saying, requires 5 levels in that particular skill.

Now that, IMHO is a reasonable way to handle languages, with synergy bonuses for related ones.

 

[Rover]

I might bump those numbers up a bit. I live in Quebec and have some experience with living day to day with two languages. There is a really broad range between basic understanding and command of a language. As I like to say I, speak one and a half languages. English and half French.

An interesting side note, a girl I work with was chided by her manager and senior manager for using the word universality at a meeting. Management thought that she made the word up. I found this amusing having a good grasp of English. I recounted this story to three friends (all of whom I consider highly intelligent) and 2 of the 3 thought it wasn’t a real word either. Kinda puzzled me that they wouldn’t know that word.

So I might suggest making 5 a native speaker with higher scores being more advanced with etymology and language history.

Just my 0.02Cr

Jim

 

[stofsk]

If everyone spoke Galanglic this wouldn't be a problem.

I still think the KISS principle needs to apply. A scale of 1-3 represents grasp of the language. But you don't use a Language skill with DCs and so on, you don't roll it to make a check. Rather, other skills like Forgery or Craft/Writing or Knowledge skills are affected by whether you have a basic or advanced level of language.

Don't forget that all of this isn't necessary, since D20 says you get bonus languages based on your INT modifier (if any). We're trying to add realism, but let's not go overboard. At the end of the day we're supposed to enjoy the game (and also, everyone speaks Galanglic anyway).