Language Rules for T20

[Tom Schoene]

OK, I know that the languge rule sin T20 are lifted straight rom d20, and that's OK. But I think they may be a bit (a lot) too generous for MTU.

It seems way too easy to
learn new languages, particularly before 1s level. If I understand
correctly, under stock d20, 1st level characters know fluently a number of
languages equal to their INT bonus, in both spoken and written forms. And then they must pay only one skill point to pick up either the spoken or written form of a language once play begins. We're going to have highly multi-lingual travellers, which is certainly a departure form the way things used to be.

I've had a few thoughts on how I might change this IMTU:

1) Split spoken and written languages up. Always require buying spoken and written forms separately, even before 1st level. This effectively doubles the cost of a language before 1st level, but not after.

2) Add some gradation between basic conversation and full fluency. A spoken language requires one skill point to speak at a basic level, and a second to become truly fluent. I'd leave written languages alone; it costs one skill point to learn a specific written form completely.

3) Impose an additional cost for learning alien languages (e.g. non-human languages for humans, human languages for aliens). It would cost one extra point just to be able to use the language at all, to account for the challenges of different vocal structures and alien thought processes. This cost applies once for the language as a whole (spoken or written, fluent or basic speaking).

Example: The Aslan Warrior's Tongue (Trokh)

Trokh is an alien language, difficult for
humans to learn and speak properly. It also has two distinct written forms -- male and female -- with two distinct alphabets hooked to the same
spoken language. So, full mastery of Trokh would cost five skill points or language slots: 1 for learning an alien language, 2 more for fluency, and 2 more (1 each) for the written forms.

Any thoughts?

 

[BluWolf]

"And then they must pay only one skill point to pick up either the spoken or written form of a language once play begins."

Nope. Once you are literate in 3E you are literate in ALL languages you know how to speak. Literacy is not distinguished by language.

I did not like this either.

I changed it for my homebrew 3E campaign and probably will for MTU.

First of all everyone starts illiterate knowinf how to speak their native tongue and that is it. Now under a Traveller universe having EVERYONE start illiterate may be a little harsh but to each his own.

Basically what I did was break the language skill down into 2 steps. Step 1 is speak, step 2 is literacy.

Then I defined languages by three classifications. Modern, ancient and secret.

Each class then had 1 or more type of language as a class skill, all others were cross-class. So if you wanted learn a new language that was a class skill it cost you 1 skill point. If you wanted to be literate it cost 2 SP.

The INT mod was the maximum number of languages a character could learn. Some classes provide class skills that allowed a PC to learn more languages than his or her class skills but that was besides the point.

I toyed with the idea of using a multi-leveled approach to fluency and literacy because I think the concept is pretty interesting and accurate, but I think in execution just isn't worth it. Too much operational overhead not enough reward for the effort.

 

[Tom Schoene]

Originally posted by BluWolf:
"And then they must pay only one skill point to pick up either the spoken or written form of a language once play begins."

Nope. Once you are literate in 3E you are literate in ALL languages you know how to speak. Literacy is not distinguished by language.

Then it seems T20 has already made one change to d20, because it does have separate Speak Language and Read/Write Language skills. Under Read/Write Language, it says "A character mudt already have the Speak Langauge skill for any language they wish to learn to read and write in."

I toyed with the idea of using a multi-leveled approach to fluency and literacy because I think the concept is pretty interesting and accurate, but I think in execution just isn't worth it. Too much operational overhead not enough reward for the effort.

Do you think that applies to my version as well? I'd assume that "basic" speaking of th langauge leaves the character with a distinct accent and forces INT rolls to convey complex ideas (DC varying with the compleixty of the idea). Full fluency leaves little tor no accent (perhaps just your teacher's local accent) and requires no rolls under most conditions. This seems like low overhead, but enough reward to make it worthwhile.

 

[Rodrigo]

In other games, I've modified language skills to be 3 tiered: Understand, Speak, and Read/Write. Understand was a pre-req for Speak, but you could take read/write any time, given my personal experience that learning to R/W a language was a lot easier than speaking it.

This played out pretty well, since players would take a lot of languages at the 'Understand' level, but few at R/W or Speak. Thus, they could function in most places, but it made it very hard to pass as a native, let alone impersonate someone, etc.

 

[BluWolf]

Do you think that applies to my version as well? I'd assume that "basic" speaking of th langauge leaves the character with a distinct accent and forces INT rolls to convey complex ideas (DC varying with the compleixty of the idea). Full fluency leaves little tor no accent (perhaps just your teacher's local accent) and requires no rolls under most conditions. This seems like low overhead, but enough reward to make it worthwhile.[/QB]

Well its all relative of course. I would say it really comes down to two things, do YOU enjoy the interaction this mechanic would bring and do your PLAYERS enjoy this? If so I do not see a problem at all and I think your solution is very viable.

I have seen adaptations that used a 5 tiered approach similar to Vampire that seemed very accurate and sophsiticated but just seemed so damn laborious.

Your approach of approach seems streamlined enought that if your players buy in the potential for hilarity on missed DCs could be very entertaining.

 

[tjoneslo]

Like everything, Language skills can be glossed over if you feel everyone should speak common^WGlanglic. OTOH if you feel language and language differences can add to the game, a more complex set of rules may not be out of line.

Most complex language skill rules:
Each language is a full skill, with ranks and everything. In a literate society like Traveller, Language covers both speaking and read/write the language. To make you self understood requires a check vs DC15. The person you are communicating with can assist in this roll by cooperating. Most people have their native language at rank 5, allowing a Take 10 on the roll for communication. Native language is a class skill, all others are cross class.

Different Languages can be ranked on their similarity to one another to facilitate communcation between two people who don't speak the language. Modifier of -1 or -2 for regional accents, -5 for similar family languages (e.g french-spanish) -10 for most languages, -15 for alien communication (e.g Hiver can't speak, and unless the other person realises the waving fingers are an attempt to communicate, this may take a while).

Allows adding feats like Natural Language Talent (makes all languages class skills) or Linguist (+2 for all languages). Plus you can use your skill with the language as a synergy bonus for various social feats (like Intimidate or Diplomacy).