Large Book 2 Ships
- Thread starter Jame
- Start date
Renard Ruche
SOC-12
Jame:
Maybe this will help:
Ken makes two rules changes/additions, one which is spelled out and one which is inferred(sp) from reading published designs:
Rule 1 - A Drive Z can move/power a 12000-ton hull. This is based on the assumption that if a Drive Z can 'move' a 3000-ton ship at 4J/Gs, then the drive can move a 6000-ton ship at 2J/Gs and further a 12000-ton ship 1J/Gs; thus giving you a range of 100 - 12000 tons from which to build. By 'stacking' the drives ala Ken's article, you can increase J and M ratings.
Rule 2 - Use High Gaurd TL rules, not LBB3's TL engine rules. I didn't really get this change until I read Ken's ship descriptions on his designs. His 'Worcester' cruiser is TL 11 and has a J2 rating using 2 Drive Z's; clearly breaking the LBB3 TL restrictions, but not the HG ones. AFAIK, Ken never states this in his article, but it is pretty clear he uses this assumption in designing.
Hope that helps!
Here's the link to the 'Worcester':
file:///Volumes/RPG%20Stuff/Traveller%20Folder/Ships/Worcester%20and%20Mogami-class%20Cruisers.html
Maybe this will help:
Ken makes two rules changes/additions, one which is spelled out and one which is inferred(sp) from reading published designs:
Rule 1 - A Drive Z can move/power a 12000-ton hull. This is based on the assumption that if a Drive Z can 'move' a 3000-ton ship at 4J/Gs, then the drive can move a 6000-ton ship at 2J/Gs and further a 12000-ton ship 1J/Gs; thus giving you a range of 100 - 12000 tons from which to build. By 'stacking' the drives ala Ken's article, you can increase J and M ratings.
Rule 2 - Use High Gaurd TL rules, not LBB3's TL engine rules. I didn't really get this change until I read Ken's ship descriptions on his designs. His 'Worcester' cruiser is TL 11 and has a J2 rating using 2 Drive Z's; clearly breaking the LBB3 TL restrictions, but not the HG ones. AFAIK, Ken never states this in his article, but it is pretty clear he uses this assumption in designing.
Hope that helps!
Here's the link to the 'Worcester':
file:///Volumes/RPG%20Stuff/Traveller%20Folder/Ships/Worcester%20and%20Mogami-class%20Cruisers.html
Renard Ruche
SOC-12
Jame:
Maybe this will help:
Ken makes two rules changes/additions, one which is spelled out and one which is inferred(sp) from reading published designs:
Rule 1 - A Drive Z can move/power a 12000-ton hull. This is based on the assumption that if a Drive Z can 'move' a 3000-ton ship at 4J/Gs, then the drive can move a 6000-ton ship at 2J/Gs and further a 12000-ton ship 1J/Gs; thus giving you a range of 100 - 12000 tons from which to build. By 'stacking' the drives ala Ken's article, you can increase J and M ratings.
Rule 2 - Use High Gaurd TL rules, not LBB3's TL engine rules. I didn't really get this change until I read Ken's ship descriptions on his designs. His 'Worcester' cruiser is TL 11 and has a J2 rating using 2 Drive Z's; clearly breaking the LBB3 TL restrictions, but not the HG ones. AFAIK, Ken never states this in his article, but it is pretty clear he uses this assumption in designing.
Hope that helps!
Here's the link to the 'Worcester':
file:///Volumes/RPG%20Stuff/Traveller%20Folder/Ships/Worcester%20and%20Mogami-class%20Cruisers.html
Maybe this will help:
Ken makes two rules changes/additions, one which is spelled out and one which is inferred(sp) from reading published designs:
Rule 1 - A Drive Z can move/power a 12000-ton hull. This is based on the assumption that if a Drive Z can 'move' a 3000-ton ship at 4J/Gs, then the drive can move a 6000-ton ship at 2J/Gs and further a 12000-ton ship 1J/Gs; thus giving you a range of 100 - 12000 tons from which to build. By 'stacking' the drives ala Ken's article, you can increase J and M ratings.
Rule 2 - Use High Gaurd TL rules, not LBB3's TL engine rules. I didn't really get this change until I read Ken's ship descriptions on his designs. His 'Worcester' cruiser is TL 11 and has a J2 rating using 2 Drive Z's; clearly breaking the LBB3 TL restrictions, but not the HG ones. AFAIK, Ken never states this in his article, but it is pretty clear he uses this assumption in designing.
Hope that helps!
Here's the link to the 'Worcester':
file:///Volumes/RPG%20Stuff/Traveller%20Folder/Ships/Worcester%20and%20Mogami-class%20Cruisers.html
Supplement Four
SOC-14 5K
I'm wondering how many 14,000 ton ships are typically encountered in the Traveller universe.
It seems like we're moving more into Star Wars territory.
It seems like we're moving more into Star Wars territory.
Supplement Four
SOC-14 5K
I'm wondering how many 14,000 ton ships are typically encountered in the Traveller universe.
It seems like we're moving more into Star Wars territory.
It seems like we're moving more into Star Wars territory.
From what I'm gathering from Fritz' PEP ("People Engineering Principles"), the largest passenger liners might be only 5000 tons.
But I don't know how commodity/raw material business schedules are impacted by 168 +/- 17 hour transport times. If they're loose enough, you might get really large bulk freighters. If they're tight enough, maybe they won't be bigger than 5000 tons, either.
In other words, it's possible to make a plausible a case for most non-military ships being 5000 tons and under. Doesn't prove it's so or not, but a referee can build the OTU on that assumption.
He could, of course, also build it on the assumptions that human and freight engineering issues are solved by higher tech, which means you can have very large non-military ships.
But I don't know how commodity/raw material business schedules are impacted by 168 +/- 17 hour transport times. If they're loose enough, you might get really large bulk freighters. If they're tight enough, maybe they won't be bigger than 5000 tons, either.
In other words, it's possible to make a plausible a case for most non-military ships being 5000 tons and under. Doesn't prove it's so or not, but a referee can build the OTU on that assumption.
He could, of course, also build it on the assumptions that human and freight engineering issues are solved by higher tech, which means you can have very large non-military ships.
From what I'm gathering from Fritz' PEP ("People Engineering Principles"), the largest passenger liners might be only 5000 tons.
But I don't know how commodity/raw material business schedules are impacted by 168 +/- 17 hour transport times. If they're loose enough, you might get really large bulk freighters. If they're tight enough, maybe they won't be bigger than 5000 tons, either.
In other words, it's possible to make a plausible a case for most non-military ships being 5000 tons and under. Doesn't prove it's so or not, but a referee can build the OTU on that assumption.
He could, of course, also build it on the assumptions that human and freight engineering issues are solved by higher tech, which means you can have very large non-military ships.
But I don't know how commodity/raw material business schedules are impacted by 168 +/- 17 hour transport times. If they're loose enough, you might get really large bulk freighters. If they're tight enough, maybe they won't be bigger than 5000 tons, either.
In other words, it's possible to make a plausible a case for most non-military ships being 5000 tons and under. Doesn't prove it's so or not, but a referee can build the OTU on that assumption.
He could, of course, also build it on the assumptions that human and freight engineering issues are solved by higher tech, which means you can have very large non-military ships.
Supplement Four
SOC-14 5K
Except that many Traveller worlds (especially in the Spinward Marches...less so in the interior of the Empire) are relatively low tech.
Heck, many of the worlds in the Aramis subsector (where my campaign is set) have a lower technology levels than real-life-present-day Earth.
I'm not sure how many issues have changed given those circumstances.
But, also, interstellar shipping has been around a long time. MegaCorps, like Tukera, have put multi-billions into design and research, I'm sure, over the generations.
Just because they're operating in the "third world" doesn't mean they are low-tech themselves.
I guess I could see an argument either way.
Supplement Four
SOC-14 5K
Except that many Traveller worlds (especially in the Spinward Marches...less so in the interior of the Empire) are relatively low tech.
Heck, many of the worlds in the Aramis subsector (where my campaign is set) have a lower technology levels than real-life-present-day Earth.
I'm not sure how many issues have changed given those circumstances.
But, also, interstellar shipping has been around a long time. MegaCorps, like Tukera, have put multi-billions into design and research, I'm sure, over the generations.
Just because they're operating in the "third world" doesn't mean they are low-tech themselves.
I guess I could see an argument either way.
Right, I see both sides.
Since Fritz is an honorable man*, I tend to go along with his preferences. They also tend to make my life easier, as his assumptions assume that many things about the OTU are similar to our times, so I (and my players) can relate better. Maybe.
* Beware the Ides of March...
Edit Postscript: I looked up the Xboat transport ships in The Traveller Adventure and the Spinward Marches Campaign, and the ships described there are 1000-3000 tons (or 5000?), and none (I think) carry more than 30-plus passengers, though a couple carry up to 1200 tons of cargo. Doesn't prove anything, but it's an interesting indicator.
Since Fritz is an honorable man*, I tend to go along with his preferences. They also tend to make my life easier, as his assumptions assume that many things about the OTU are similar to our times, so I (and my players) can relate better. Maybe.
* Beware the Ides of March...
Edit Postscript: I looked up the Xboat transport ships in The Traveller Adventure and the Spinward Marches Campaign, and the ships described there are 1000-3000 tons (or 5000?), and none (I think) carry more than 30-plus passengers, though a couple carry up to 1200 tons of cargo. Doesn't prove anything, but it's an interesting indicator.
Right, I see both sides.
Since Fritz is an honorable man*, I tend to go along with his preferences. They also tend to make my life easier, as his assumptions assume that many things about the OTU are similar to our times, so I (and my players) can relate better. Maybe.
* Beware the Ides of March...
Edit Postscript: I looked up the Xboat transport ships in The Traveller Adventure and the Spinward Marches Campaign, and the ships described there are 1000-3000 tons (or 5000?), and none (I think) carry more than 30-plus passengers, though a couple carry up to 1200 tons of cargo. Doesn't prove anything, but it's an interesting indicator.
Since Fritz is an honorable man*, I tend to go along with his preferences. They also tend to make my life easier, as his assumptions assume that many things about the OTU are similar to our times, so I (and my players) can relate better. Maybe.
* Beware the Ides of March...
Edit Postscript: I looked up the Xboat transport ships in The Traveller Adventure and the Spinward Marches Campaign, and the ships described there are 1000-3000 tons (or 5000?), and none (I think) carry more than 30-plus passengers, though a couple carry up to 1200 tons of cargo. Doesn't prove anything, but it's an interesting indicator.
Fritz_Brown
Super Moderator
Heh. You have more to be concerned with from the upcoming full moon / Lunar eclipse....
Yowza! How much of that space is consumed by J-6 drives?My ideas re liners were spurred (at least partly) by the mention of the QE2. That brings to mind a luxury liner (hence all the bit about plenty of fresh (unrecycled) water, fresh food, etc.). I don't see many folks paying for transport to another world and riding in giant cattle-cars - at least, not awake.
I leave it to folks like Dan and Wil to figure out the economics required for large ships in LBB2 universe v. economics in a LBB5 universe. Macroeconomics has always made my head hurt.
Fritz_Brown
Super Moderator
Heh. You have more to be concerned with from the upcoming full moon / Lunar eclipse....
Yowza! How much of that space is consumed by J-6 drives?My ideas re liners were spurred (at least partly) by the mention of the QE2. That brings to mind a luxury liner (hence all the bit about plenty of fresh (unrecycled) water, fresh food, etc.). I don't see many folks paying for transport to another world and riding in giant cattle-cars - at least, not awake.
I leave it to folks like Dan and Wil to figure out the economics required for large ships in LBB2 universe v. economics in a LBB5 universe. Macroeconomics has always made my head hurt.
J4 drives. All drives plus fuel, probably 50% overhead. Granted, these ships usually carry 20 high passengers, 10 middle, and 1200 tons of goo.
I've decided that all Book 2 needs is a few extension drives to accomodate up to Jump-4 for 5000 ton hulls. Once that's done, Book 2 is essentially the core ruleset for designing civilian ships.
Assuming civvie ships are relatively small, that is.
In fact, only five extra drives, which I've tentatively labelled 'Y2' (which sits between Y and Z), and 'MA' through 'MD'.
Basically (Sigg, Oz, are you there?), Y2 pushes at 10,000 JU, and MA through MD push from 14,000 to 20,000 JU.
Next, using my Braindead Traffic Heuristic, I figure the average Trade Index between two neighboring worlds, and roll some dice. Still working on the actual numbers, but I'm engineering the results to put out 35 or so as the optimal number of passengers (and 1200t of cargo) per leg of the Xboat route for a ship with a route stretching from Mora to Jewell and back.
I've decided that all Book 2 needs is a few extension drives to accomodate up to Jump-4 for 5000 ton hulls. Once that's done, Book 2 is essentially the core ruleset for designing civilian ships.
Assuming civvie ships are relatively small, that is.
In fact, only five extra drives, which I've tentatively labelled 'Y2' (which sits between Y and Z), and 'MA' through 'MD'.
Basically (Sigg, Oz, are you there?), Y2 pushes at 10,000 JU, and MA through MD push from 14,000 to 20,000 JU.
Next, using my Braindead Traffic Heuristic, I figure the average Trade Index between two neighboring worlds, and roll some dice. Still working on the actual numbers, but I'm engineering the results to put out 35 or so as the optimal number of passengers (and 1200t of cargo) per leg of the Xboat route for a ship with a route stretching from Mora to Jewell and back.
J4 drives. All drives plus fuel, probably 50% overhead. Granted, these ships usually carry 20 high passengers, 10 middle, and 1200 tons of goo.
I've decided that all Book 2 needs is a few extension drives to accomodate up to Jump-4 for 5000 ton hulls. Once that's done, Book 2 is essentially the core ruleset for designing civilian ships.
Assuming civvie ships are relatively small, that is.
In fact, only five extra drives, which I've tentatively labelled 'Y2' (which sits between Y and Z), and 'MA' through 'MD'.
Basically (Sigg, Oz, are you there?), Y2 pushes at 10,000 JU, and MA through MD push from 14,000 to 20,000 JU.
Next, using my Braindead Traffic Heuristic, I figure the average Trade Index between two neighboring worlds, and roll some dice. Still working on the actual numbers, but I'm engineering the results to put out 35 or so as the optimal number of passengers (and 1200t of cargo) per leg of the Xboat route for a ship with a route stretching from Mora to Jewell and back.
I've decided that all Book 2 needs is a few extension drives to accomodate up to Jump-4 for 5000 ton hulls. Once that's done, Book 2 is essentially the core ruleset for designing civilian ships.
Assuming civvie ships are relatively small, that is.
In fact, only five extra drives, which I've tentatively labelled 'Y2' (which sits between Y and Z), and 'MA' through 'MD'.
Basically (Sigg, Oz, are you there?), Y2 pushes at 10,000 JU, and MA through MD push from 14,000 to 20,000 JU.
Next, using my Braindead Traffic Heuristic, I figure the average Trade Index between two neighboring worlds, and roll some dice. Still working on the actual numbers, but I'm engineering the results to put out 35 or so as the optimal number of passengers (and 1200t of cargo) per leg of the Xboat route for a ship with a route stretching from Mora to Jewell and back.
Type L5 Liner
A generic design used along the X-boat route. Also has a bulk cargo variant (LC5).
</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">Component Volume MCr
Hull (5000) 500
J-drive MD 190 360
M-drive W 41 84
Power W* 64 168
Fuel 2050 -
Bridge 100 ?
Crew SR (20) 80 10
Pass SR (72) 288 36
Cargo 1960 -
Pinnace x 5 220 ?
Hardpoints x 3 3 ?</pre>[/QUOTE]The L5 is a 5000 ton liner targetted for servicing worlds along Xboat routes. It is capable of Jump 4 and 1G. 2050 tons of fuel support one Jump-4 and four weeks of power plant operation. The cargo capacity is 1960 tons. The ship requires 21 crew: 3 officers, 1 pilot, 1 astrogator, 9 engineers, 6 stewards, 1 medic, and up to 3 gunners. The L5 carries 48 high passengers, 24 middle passengers, and no low passengers. Its price is somewhat more than MCr 1158.
The bulk cargo variant of this ship, the LC5, requires 16 crew: 2 officers, 1 pilot, 1 astrogator, 9 engineers, and up to 3 gunners. It carries no passengers. Its hangar has room for only one pinnace instead of 5. Cargo capacity is 2464 tons.
* Potentially wrong assumption that jump drives don't require external power plants.
A generic design used along the X-boat route. Also has a bulk cargo variant (LC5).
</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">Component Volume MCr
Hull (5000) 500
J-drive MD 190 360
M-drive W 41 84
Power W* 64 168
Fuel 2050 -
Bridge 100 ?
Crew SR (20) 80 10
Pass SR (72) 288 36
Cargo 1960 -
Pinnace x 5 220 ?
Hardpoints x 3 3 ?</pre>[/QUOTE]The L5 is a 5000 ton liner targetted for servicing worlds along Xboat routes. It is capable of Jump 4 and 1G. 2050 tons of fuel support one Jump-4 and four weeks of power plant operation. The cargo capacity is 1960 tons. The ship requires 21 crew: 3 officers, 1 pilot, 1 astrogator, 9 engineers, 6 stewards, 1 medic, and up to 3 gunners. The L5 carries 48 high passengers, 24 middle passengers, and no low passengers. Its price is somewhat more than MCr 1158.
The bulk cargo variant of this ship, the LC5, requires 16 crew: 2 officers, 1 pilot, 1 astrogator, 9 engineers, and up to 3 gunners. It carries no passengers. Its hangar has room for only one pinnace instead of 5. Cargo capacity is 2464 tons.
* Potentially wrong assumption that jump drives don't require external power plants.
Type L5 Liner
A generic design used along the X-boat route. Also has a bulk cargo variant (LC5).
</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">Component Volume MCr
Hull (5000) 500
J-drive MD 190 360
M-drive W 41 84
Power W* 64 168
Fuel 2050 -
Bridge 100 ?
Crew SR (20) 80 10
Pass SR (72) 288 36
Cargo 1960 -
Pinnace x 5 220 ?
Hardpoints x 3 3 ?</pre>[/QUOTE]The L5 is a 5000 ton liner targetted for servicing worlds along Xboat routes. It is capable of Jump 4 and 1G. 2050 tons of fuel support one Jump-4 and four weeks of power plant operation. The cargo capacity is 1960 tons. The ship requires 21 crew: 3 officers, 1 pilot, 1 astrogator, 9 engineers, 6 stewards, 1 medic, and up to 3 gunners. The L5 carries 48 high passengers, 24 middle passengers, and no low passengers. Its price is somewhat more than MCr 1158.
The bulk cargo variant of this ship, the LC5, requires 16 crew: 2 officers, 1 pilot, 1 astrogator, 9 engineers, and up to 3 gunners. It carries no passengers. Its hangar has room for only one pinnace instead of 5. Cargo capacity is 2464 tons.
* Potentially wrong assumption that jump drives don't require external power plants.
A generic design used along the X-boat route. Also has a bulk cargo variant (LC5).
</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">Component Volume MCr
Hull (5000) 500
J-drive MD 190 360
M-drive W 41 84
Power W* 64 168
Fuel 2050 -
Bridge 100 ?
Crew SR (20) 80 10
Pass SR (72) 288 36
Cargo 1960 -
Pinnace x 5 220 ?
Hardpoints x 3 3 ?</pre>[/QUOTE]The L5 is a 5000 ton liner targetted for servicing worlds along Xboat routes. It is capable of Jump 4 and 1G. 2050 tons of fuel support one Jump-4 and four weeks of power plant operation. The cargo capacity is 1960 tons. The ship requires 21 crew: 3 officers, 1 pilot, 1 astrogator, 9 engineers, 6 stewards, 1 medic, and up to 3 gunners. The L5 carries 48 high passengers, 24 middle passengers, and no low passengers. Its price is somewhat more than MCr 1158.
The bulk cargo variant of this ship, the LC5, requires 16 crew: 2 officers, 1 pilot, 1 astrogator, 9 engineers, and up to 3 gunners. It carries no passengers. Its hangar has room for only one pinnace instead of 5. Cargo capacity is 2464 tons.
* Potentially wrong assumption that jump drives don't require external power plants.
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