Laser Accuracy Characteristics

[kilemall]

I am assuming personal laser weapons could be set to low-power designation mode until a target is lined up, then a second pull of the trigger would switch to full power.

The result should be fabulous accuracy over and above anything else as there is no 'flight time' or separate weapon characteristics to introduce discrepancies. Point and click destruction at its finest.

So shouldn't lasers be inherently more accurate and reflected in the to-hit?

Of course, for no other reason then gameplay, every advantage should have a cost, and a shooter constantly self-designating should have a high signature, even the X-ray ones (assuming most CA/BD and helmets of that tech have detectors/overlays for display).

And my favorite, using the constant laser user's own weapon as a laser homing self-target designator.

 

[Ulsyus]

I am assuming personal laser weapons could be set to low-power designation mode until a target is lined up, then a second pull of the trigger would switch to full power.

The result should be fabulous accuracy over and above anything else as there is no 'flight time' or separate weapon characteristics to introduce discrepancies. Point and click destruction at its finest.

You know what they say about assumptions. Also, don't forget that the contract for a service rifle may not necessarily go to the lowest bidder, but that's not a bad place to start looking.

So shouldn't lasers be inherently more accurate and reflected in the to-hit?

Of course, for no other reason then gameplay, every advantage should have a cost, and a shooter constantly self-designating should have a high signature, even the X-ray ones (assuming most CA/BD and helmets of that tech have detectors/overlays for display).

And my favorite, using the constant laser user's own weapon as a laser homing self-target designator.

I agree that lasers should be more accurate because there's no deviation in the flight path of the round, no aiming high or low depending on where the target is compared to where your weapon sights are zeroed for. But there's a limit to what it can do by itself with a person behind the stock and trigger (hmm, name for a book or movie?). Of course, if it's married to target designation assistance fed to the firer through their helmet display, that could be another matter.

 

[Brandon C]

I am assuming personal laser weapons could be set to low-power designation mode until a target is lined up, then a second pull of the trigger would switch to full power.

This is a lot like the progressive trigger used on some light automatic weapons of the 1920's and 1930's. Instead of a selector switch, partly pulling back on the trigger fired single shots, while pulling all the way back firefull auto. While this worked well on the firing range, in the field it failed. The average soldier was under sufficient stress in combat and repeatedly pulled the trigger all the way back, even when semiautomatic fire was called for.

I think a double pull on the trigger will not work for average (especislly conscript) troops in combat. Good on the range, bad in the field.

So shouldn't lasers be inherently more accurate and reflected in the to-hit?

They are, depending on edition.

In CT, the gauss rifle is the only rifle-type weapon more accurate than a laser.

In GT, lasers have a clear edge over even gauss rifles.

In MgT, inexplicably, lasers and slugthrowers have the same accuracy.

 

[mike wightman]

A laser designator gives away your position to opponents equipped with laser sensors...

on a TL9+ battlefield that may mean your own demise before you get to pull the trigger the second time.

 

[Carlobrand]

Thoughts:

Visible-light frequency lasers are rather easily defeated by reflec.
TL 13+ lasers won't give you that visible spot ability.
The feature would be useful for sniping but, in the heat of battle with people trying to kill you, folk are less likely to take that extra second to make a precision shot and more interested in getting more shots off quick so they can dissuade the other guy from trying to take time for a precise shot.
As Brandon mentioned, keeping your cool while hell is breaking loose around you isn't easy. Mostly it will be the elites who can maintain enough discipline under fire to take advantage of that feature.

 

[Brandon C]

A laser designator gives away your position to opponents equipped with laser sensors...

The battlefield sight used on the ACR and gauss rifle has a laser designator as well but it doesn't seem to cause them problems.

 

[mike wightman]

It will if they paint a target with a laser sensor - they will have point defence incoming...

 

[Brandon C]

It will if they paint a target with a laser sensor - they will have point defence incoming...

Then the battlefield sight should not include a laser designator or rangefinder.

 

[mike wightman]

Then the battlefield sight should not include a laser designator or rangefinder.

Any active sensor is likely to give away your position, so you are better off not using them most of the time.
Alternatively make sure you don't use it to paint a target that has a laser sensor

Going by the description of the enhanced sensors on battledress I would imagine battledress includes laser sensors, so if you point a laser sight/designator at someone so equipped they now know exactly where you are and that info is communicated via comms to the battlecomputer network so that every HUD in the vicinity has you tagged as a target...

 

[nobby-w]

I am assuming personal laser weapons could be set to low-power designation mode until a target is lined up, then a second pull of the trigger would switch to full power.

This would make you quite obvious to anybody with a laser sensor. There's a reason that infantry don't habitually use laser sights - in spite of the technology having been around since the 1970s. They're mostly useful for their intimidation factor.

 

[kilemall]

On the consequences front- oh yes, I think I made it clear that there should be a world of hurt incoming for using this feature set, and on a practical level it may be that laser weapons were not always prevalent even at no-reflec TLs just for this reason.

At TL 13 with the x-ray lasers, may be so many sensors that it just doesn't matter, you move and light up sensors on half a dozen different EM wavelengths or principles- might as well kill what you can while you can.

I don't think the argument about non-visual X-ray lasers making the point-and-kill feature unusable is valid- at TL13 even the cheapest foot soldiers will have a helmet with display for all valid might-kill EM/matter. Of course, consequences.

Also don't think lack of laser use at our TL as a predictor for TL 8+ main weapon use is valid either- again, I'm saying the laser stands alone as being uniquely the same delivery time/location between designator and main weapon.

We're assuming Reflec is universal amongst military forces by TL10- that may not be. Ablat though certainly puts a crimp in the value/results argument for universal lasers.

Could be they are more squad support weapons, or the designator mode is used for critical sniper targets.

The trigger pull issue sounds valid, in which case you might have a selector switch mode for designator/weapon fire and a separate trigger like a verbal command or eye movement to go full power. Or, that feature is only built into special support versions only given to Laser-3+ shooters.

As to intimidation value, nothing would be more intimidating then you step out into LOS, you die because of high first-shot probability. An unsuppressed laser sniper might be the ultimate TL9 pinning weapon.

 

[Ulsyus]

The feature would be useful for sniping but, in the heat of battle with people trying to kill you, folk are less likely to take that extra second to make a precision shot and more interested in getting more shots off quick so they can dissuade the other guy from trying to take time for a precise shot.
As Brandon mentioned, keeping your cool while hell is breaking loose around you isn't easy. Mostly it will be the elites who can maintain enough discipline under fire to take advantage of that feature.

Wasn't it an old western gunfighter adage that went something along the lines of "speed is good, accuracy is better"?

AS for fire discipline, it comes down to training and what/who are considered line troops vs elites. Fire discipline should be instilled in all gruntasauruses regardless of their level of quality, though clearly the ones at the lower end of the spectrum are less likely to recall that part of their training. It all goes back to their training though.

 

[infojunky]

Honestly every time I think of personnel Lasers in Traveller the two thoughts ar Lower the damage and give em a +1 to hit.

 

[LeperColony]

Interestingly, lasers work very differently in TNE.

They can do a massive amount of damage and have a high rate of fire, but they are rendered completely ineffective by various armors, including TL 2 plate...

So under those rules, they're more specialist weapons than main line.

 

[kilemall]

Honestly every time I think of personnel Lasers in Traveller the two thoughts ar Lower the damage and give em a +1 to hit.

The way I have them in my mutant Striker, they don't have that awful near autokill that the rules have for energy/HE/PGMPs weapons, those were excessive especially given the high pen of lasers.

But high penetration alone IMTU can add up to 3D of damage. So the Laser Rifle is going to average 4D against Cloth with a torso hit, and near-auto 5D against unarmored- but an extremity hit on Cloth and unlucky roll may be no damage and average 2D.

IMTU a SALH RAM grenade would be a standard answer to overeager designator guy.

But I've never given them upped to-hit, I'm using this thread as a test case to/not to and by how much.

For TNE supposedly being the gearhead edition, that's disappointing to read. To me the laser is more precision heat then reflective photons given the differing wavelengths one could potentially use. I'm reading reflec as more firesuit then mirror.