LBB Book 2 Starship Combat

[creativehum]

Hi,

I've looked at other threads on this topic. Before I dig too deep, I was just wondering...

1) Does the Vector Combat really pay off? As far as I can tell direction has no bearing on hits or damage. (Range will affect laser fire). So... what do we get for it... (Let's leave planetary templates aside for the moment.)

2) Except! Sand casters spread sand out in space. It seems that those clouds of sand become interesting tactical elements in vector play, if you're trying to use the cloud as protection or get around it to hit a ship. Yes? Are they interesting?

But, does it say anywhere how big the spread of sand is?

3) “Missiles move as if they were ships with maneuver drive-5”. (according to errata I found). Okay, at least I now know how the missile home in on a target. Do people actually play out the missiles? With a maneuver drive-5, it is going to eventually reach it's target after a while. (Remember, I'm only using LBB 2 -- No High Guard, no Mayday. Not going deep in the weeds here.) Now it might be destroyed by anti-missile fire. But it will get to the target. Has anyone found a quick way to abstract the missiles. Because what really matters is when and how it interacts with the target, not if. Right?

4) I've just read about the range bands in Starter Traveller. I'm not sure if they help to much with the questions about Sand. But they might simplify some things. Do they?

If I'm missing the logic of anything here, please have mercy. I'm trying to read rules that, from everything I've read here so far about the Starship Combat section, are somewhat troubled.

 

[GameDaddy]

Hi,

I've looked at other threads on this topic. Before I dig too deep, I was just wondering...

1) Does the Vector Combat really pay off? As far as I can tell direction has no bearing on hits or damage. (Range will affect laser fire). So... what do we get for it... (Let's leave planetary templates aside for the moment.)

2) Except! Sand casters spread sand out in space. It seems that those clouds of sand become interesting tactical elements in vector play, if you're trying to use the cloud as protection or get around it to hit a ship. Yes? Are they interesting?

But, does it say anywhere how big the spread of sand is?

3) “Missiles move as if they were ships with maneuver drive-5”. (according to errata I found). Okay, at least I now know how the missile home in on a target. Do people actually play out the missiles? With a maneuver drive-5, it is going to eventually reach it's target after a while. (Remember, I'm only using LBB 2 -- No High Guard, no Mayday. Not going deep in the weeds here.) Now it might be destroyed by anti-missile fire. But it will get to the target. Has anyone found a quick way to abstract the missiles. Because what really matters is when and how it interacts with the target, not if. Right?

4) I've just read about the range bands in Starter Traveller. I'm not sure if they help to much with the questions about Sand. But they might simplify some things. Do they?

I generally don't use the Starships rules for vector based combat for space battles. I houseruled using range bands just like with the ground combat. You move as many or as few range bands to close with the enemy as your G rating. Missiles will move at whatever G-rating your ship is currently moving at when launched and may accelerate up to 5Gs more... in range bands (one G being one range band).

Laser Fire is limited to Close, Short & Medium range, not because the lasers can't burn up stuff really far away in a vacuum, but because the precision targeting system required to hit maneuvering targets that may be several thousand to millions of Kilometers away are extremely difficult to build and accurate Long range laser fire is generally only available after TL-14.

The sand is launched in the direction where the incoming laser fire is originating from. I also house rule that normal sand is sufficiently dispersed after 5 turns and would require the sandcasters to disperse another load to continue to protect the ship from incoming laser fire.

Also, if your starship changes direction, maneuvers to get around or behind an enemy ship, or if it is conducting evasive maneuvers, it loses the benefit of sand cloud protection each and every turn and the sandcasters much launch a new sand cloud to protect the ship since it maneuvered itself out of the existing sand cloud which is traveling in the direction the ship was traveling at the time the sand cloud was launched.

You can leave a marker for the sand cloud on the table or game board as the cloud will continue traveling in the same direction, and at the same velocity as the ship that launched it until the cloud disperses naturally after five turns.

In that time another spacecraft may be able to successfully maneuver in behind the cloud and gain protection from laser fire from it.

Also, at TL-14 or above the sand caster cloud is composed of nano crystals that maneuver themselves with the ship for up to five turns providing complete protection from laser fire. I.e. The ship moves out of the sand caster cloud, and the nano-cloud itself will move itself back into position to protect the starship it was launched from.

Sandcasters are purely defensive and work both ways. If they are successfully blocking enemy ships from firing on you, you have to fire your laser weapons through that same sand in order to hit the enemy ships.

Sand will not protect from plasma energy weapons, and particle accelerator weapons, only beam and pulse laser weapons.

 

[creativehum]

Thanks so much for that!

You talk about maneuvering to get behind an enemy ship. Does your system involved facing, for both targeting and damage?

When we talk about maneuvering around a ship, are we saying that if a ship enters the same range band or gets "behind" a ship's range band, the effects of the cloud is removed?

I'm assuming this is kind of cool, since to do that brings one's ship closer to the target ship's return fire, making you more vulnerable even as you're trying to flank the sand.

How does the starship combat play? Does it turn out to be a fun little sub-game?

If I may be bold, do you have the rules written up somewhere?

 

[Supplement Four]

1) Does the Vector Combat really pay off? As far as I can tell direction has no bearing on hits or damage.

HEXES!

It's not worth the work, imo. The easy way to do Vector Combat is to set aside the ruler and compass and instead use a hex board, where each hex is 10,000 km. That way, one hex means one turn of thrust at 1G. Just keep track of how many hexes your craft is moving and remember that you have to move in a straight line for that number hexes next round.

For example, you're in a craft with a 3G M-Drive and you've accelerated at maximum thrust for three rounds. Your Speed (Velocity) is 9 hexes per round.

On round four, you've got to set your destination point at 9 hexes distant from your starting point (ending point from round three), and that point has to be in the same straight line that you've been travelling over the previous three rounds.

After figuring that point, you can adjust a number of hexes, in any direction, equal to your M-Drive. In this case, velocity can be slowed to 6 hexes or increased to 12 hexes along that same straight line, or the line can be altered slightly to up to 3 hexes from the destination point.

Using hexes is a lot easier than standard Book 2 combat. You'll find that Mayday uses a similar system (with bigger hexes). But, still, you can be talking about a lot of real space (off the hex sheet, off the table) can be taken up in just a few rounds. So, it's not a perfect space saver.





RANGE BANDS!

IMO, Range Bands is definitely the way to go. In combat, facing means nothing. The Space Combat rounds are so long that a ship can face in any direction it wants during its turn. Plus, using positioning thrusters, the ship can face in any direction it wants while it travels along its turn (it can "face" sideways or backwards without changing its speed or direction)*.

*The rules let you do this, but some use a house rule that it removes 1G of thrust (A 3G vessel is counted as a 2G vessel when vector changes are made), because, if you think about it, in order to increase velocity to 12 hexes in round four above, it would take the ship to accelerate at full thrust for the entire turn--therefore, it's facing must always be with the main thrust to the aft of the vessel.





STRAIGHT LINE VECTOR!

One thing that vector movement, whether by hex or by mm per standard Book 2, does do is clearly show a player how a vessel typically just moves in a straight line and has little control over altering that course.

We're all used to small craft whipping around in different directions Star Wars style, but that's not Traveller at all. Think about this: You're using a vessel with a 3G M-Drive, making a journey from a Size 8 Main World to Jump Point. Because you will start with the same vector at your Jump Destination, you may want to keep a low or zero vector when you reach the Jump Point.


According to the Typical Travel Times Table, you're going to cover a distance of 1,280,000 km. To be at zero vector (speed) when you enter jump, you'll accelerate at 3G for half that distance, then decelerate for the last half. Total travel time is 217 minutes, according to the table. That's 108.5 minutes of acceleration at 3Gs followed by 108.5 minutes of deceleration at 3Gs.

In Space Combat rounds, that's 6 or 7 (6.51) turns of acceleration followed by 6 or 7 turns of deceleration.

What happens if, on round 5, the ship encounters pirates attacking a civilian craft. What can they do?

Answer: Not much, or not much very quickly.

By round 5, the ship is traveling at 15 hexes per turn and can only adjust by 3 hexes per round.

So, on round 5, the ship passes the attacking vessels and is 15 hexes away. The captain of the player's vessel can fire at this distance (150,000 km) pretty easily, but he's only getting one shot at the corsair before the penalties set in.

The player's ship begins to alter vector, "slowing" the ship to a vector of 12, which means the ship fires from 27 hexes on round 2 (it's 270,000 km away). That means a -2 penalty is used on all laser shots due to range.

Round three (past the Corsair and Civilian Craft), the player's ship slows to a vector of 9 hexes per round, and it is 36 hexes away from the Corsair (360,000 km). Still, the -2 penalty on all laser shots.

Round four, the player's ship slows to 6 hexes per round, and it is 42 hexes away from the Corsair and civilian craft. Laser shots at -2. Range is 420,000 km.

Round five, the player's ship slows to 3 hexes per round. Range is now 45 hexes, or 450,000 km. Shots at -2.

Round six, the player's ship slows to a vector of 0 hexes per round. Range is still 45 hexes. Shots at -2.

Round seven. The players's ship finally produces thrust taking the ship towards the Corsair and civilian craft. The Corsair has now had almost two hours to attack and board the civilian craft! Now, the Captain of the player's vessel will have to make a call. Does he want to arrive at the destination (the attack point where the two vessel are) so that he can dock with the civilian craft? Or does he want to be at a certain velocity? The captain decides to dock with the civilian craft, looking for survivors. (Heck, the civilian craft may even be in communication with the player's vessel because there is little they can do about the attack anyway.) Acceleration is 3Gs (3 hexes) toward the combat point. Distance is 42 hexes (420,000 km). -2 DM to lasers.

Round Eight. Accelerate another 3Gs, making velocity 6Gs. Distance is 36 hexes. -2 to lasers.

Round Nine. Accelerate to 9G velocity. Distance is 27 hexes. -2 to lasers.

Round Ten. Accelerate to 12G velocity. Distance is 15 hexes (The point where the contact was first made! It took the player's ship 2.7 hours to "turn around and come back"!) No more penalty to lasers.

Round Eleven. Decelerate to 9Gs. Distance is 6 hexes.

Round Twelve. Decelerate to 6Gs. Distance is 0 hexes (we're in the same hex!), but we haven't completely slowed.

Round Thirteen. Decelerate to 3Gs. Distance is 3 hexes.

Round Fourteen. Decelerate to 0Gs. Distance is 0 hexes. Dock with Civilian Craft.



So, what happened here? The player's vessel left the main world for jump, but on the journey to jump point, encountered a civilian craft begging for help against a corsair pirate vessel. Although able to fire at the Corsair each round (usually with a -2 DM range penalty), the player's ship was moving so fast that is just sped right past the action. It's like two people in a fist fight standing next to the freeway. There isn't a lot the cars on the freeway can do about it.

It takes a whopping 3.8 hours for the player's vessel to decelerate, come back to the combat point, and dock with the civilian craft. By that time, the Corsair is probably long gone, having taken all the cargo from its prey and done to the civilians on the craft what it wants to.



My Point About Vectors: And, this was all done with a pretty speedy craft capable of 3G acceleration. Just think of how exponential the time would be using a craft with a 1G M-Drive.

Using a hex board or vectors does show this concept to the players well. They can see how long it takes to decelerate each round. So, that's a plus.





INSIDE!

I usually use Range Band combat, though, describing what the players see and hear inside their space craft. With a hex board (or Book 2 vector combat), the game is like a war game, with the focus on the outside--on the ships.

What I do is focus the action on the inside of the player's ship, telling the players what their characters see on their scopes and data panels. Sometimes, we break into roleplaying inside the ship--and there's plenty time for it, with space combat rounds being 1,000 seconds long.

 

[Supplement Four]

2) Except! Sand casters spread sand out in space. It seems that those clouds of sand become interesting tactical elements in vector play, if you're trying to use the cloud as protection or get around it to hit a ship. Yes? Are they interesting?

Just consider a sand cloud as another vessel with a set vector. "It will move along this line and a vector of 3 hexes per turn." It will never change course, obviously.

3) “Missiles move as if they were ships with maneuver drive-5”. (according to errata I found). Okay, at least I now know how the missile home in on a target. Do people actually play out the missiles?

Yes. Missiles are fun!

If the target vessel is moving slow enough to effect course change, then the target can jink away from the missile until the missile runs out of fuel. Missiles will only move for X number of turns.

But, just think if, in the long example above about vectors, that the Corsair pirate vessel fired missiles at the player's craft as it passed. There's not much the players' ship can do except point defense.

Round 1. Missile accelerate's to 5Gs. Target ship passes at 15 hexes. Missile is 10 hexes from target.

Round 2. Missile accelerates to 10Gs. Target ship range is 27 hexes. Missile is 17 hexes from target.

Round 3. Missile at 15Gs. Target ship range is 36 hexes. Missile is 21 hexes from target.

Round 4. Missile at 20Gs. Target ship range is 42 hexes. Missile is at 22 hexes from target.

Round 5. Missile at 25Gs. Target ship range is 45 hexes as the player's vessel starts to slow and burn back towards the Pirates. Missile explodes at 200,000 km distant from player's ship, out of fuel, range exhausted.

But...the Pirate captain can use the missile as a target to keep shots away from his vessel. Or, the missile (or two or three) might keep the player's ship away from the Corsair while the loading of the stolen cargo is taking place.

 

[creativehum]

Thanks for all that.

You've now made me ambiguous about which way to jump -- because all that about the vectors and missiles and all certainly sounds intriguing!

There was one question up there left unanswered. If one is using vector play, how much space does a sand cloud take up. (In other words, to determine Line of Sight, one needs to know how big the sand cloud is.)

 

[Supplement Four]

It takes a whopping 3.8 hours for the player's vessel to decelerate, come back to the combat point, and dock with the civilian craft. By that time, the Corsair is probably long gone, having taken all the cargo from its prey and done to the civilians on the craft what it wants to.

Another point: There may be several vessels in the system, and not a one of them can do anything about the Corsair pirate attack except watch.

I imagine that there are some harrowing tales of pitiful civilian or merchant vessels being viciously attacked by pirates, live (or as fast as delayed comm will travel at the speed of light) while the victims plead for help that cannot happen.

The Navy may even have System Defense Boats on patrol throughout the system but still not be in a position to help an attacked merchant vessel once one of the other detected vessels in the system shows its true colors and starts attacking a nearby merchant.

Ship captains probably aren't too concerned with other vessels in the system unless they have the range to intercept his vessel.

Pirates don't need to find places to hide. They can hide in the open--just a blip on the scope, like any other vessel, if there are no other vessels around that can intercept their attack on the prey.

Naval and Starport personnel must spend a lot of time doing what they can to verify traffic. Given the speed of communication, flight plans can't be filed. The ship would appear before the flight plan arrived. Therefore, ships just appear in the system on a point of the sphere that is 100 diameters out from the Main World (provided that point isn't masked), and almost immediately, if the system is civilized at all, the ship will be bombarded by calls from the starport and possibly Naval vessels asking for intention, identification, and destination.

If a Starport controller gets suspicious, he might order a custom's boat in the vessel's direction.

Transponders are probably automatic once a vessel jumps in system, stating to all that can hear, "Here I am, and this is who I am." A vessel without a transponder is immediately suspect. Illegal fake transponders are probably common among pirates. This is a great use for the computer programming rules and the Computer and Forgery skills, too.

Pirates probably run dual lives with fake transponders. In many cases, they don't need shadow ports. Who knows where the goods came from? Sell the stuff legitimately, then take off for another system. If a pirating opportunity comes up, take it.

But, pirates have to think about fuel, too. Most vessels can't make two jumps in a row without extra tankage or refueling. Jump in. Skim fuel. Then attack.

Just some random thoughts....

 

[Supplement Four]

There was one question up there left unanswered. If one is using vector play, how much space does a sand cloud take up. (In other words, to determine Line of Sight, one needs to know how big the sand cloud is.)

With hexes, it's easy. One hex.

I've never used Book 2 combat as-is, but I guess a marker the size of the player's ship is needed if the ship maneuvers out of the cloud.

If the ship does not maneuver out of the cloud, just consider the ship enveloped by the cloud. Here, you don't need a size or marker as the ship benefits from the sand from any hit.

How sandcasters work has been subject of much speculation over the years. How much volume of sand, after all can a single canister (that is fired like a missile) have?

Sounds like not much.

From what I understand, Sand can be considered a "shield" for the ship--a shield that locks the ship into a particular velocity. The ship can maneuver out of the sand cloud, and there can be several sand clouds moving across the battle map--and the ship can duck into and out of these clouds as needed (but matching vectors, as I showed above with the vector example, is usually not that easy).

Sandcasters and how they work has, for many years, been kept vague in the game rules. I think a good read of T5 on this subject might be in order to better clarify what Marc is thinking about them.

 

[Supplement Four]

RANGE BAND WEAKNESS

Oh, I forgot to mention the biggest weakness of using Range Bands. That is, they don't work well with multiple ships. It's hard to keep up.

Let's say you've got two player vessels in a convoy that are attacked by five Corsairs. That's a nightmare to figure using just range bands. You almost have to use a plot, either hexes or standard Book 2 vector movement.

Range Bands are really mean for just the player's ship and one adversary vessel. You can get away with tracking two adversarial vessels with range bands, but three bad guys is tough--starts to get confusing.

In order to track multiple ships using range bands, use columns. The player's craft is on one row, and each column represents different enemy vessels.

But, the Range Band system breaks down if you have more than one friendly vessel, or if your enemies are also enemies of each other. When this happens, use hex or vector movement.

 

[Frankymole]

Another point: There may be several vessels in the system, and not a one of them can do anything about the Corsair pirate attack except watch.

I imagine that there are some harrowing tales of pitiful civilian or merchant vessels being viciously attacked by pirates, live (or as fast as delayed comm will travel at the speed of light) while the victims plead for help that cannot happen.

Yes, indeed:

This is the Free Trader Beowulf, calling anyone ...
Mayday, Mayday ...
we are under attack ...
main drive is gone ...
turret number one not responding ...
Mayday ...
losing cabin pressure fast ...
calling anyone ...
please help ...
This is Free Trader Beowulf ...
Mayday ..

 

[creativehum]

Okay, I just cracked open Mayday.

It seems to be pretty close to the Book 2 rules, while also defining and clarifying a lot of what is missing from Book 2.

I'll open it up and take a read through today.

At the glance I gave it, it seems as if there are no integration of PC skills (since there are no PCs). That's easy enough to add back in by using the DMs and Computer Programs from Book 2.

And because it is a board game, there's a kind of Robo-Rally feel to the damage, with an end goal of destroying enemy ships with four hits.

But I think I'd use the damage tables for Book 2. They're more varied, address the more RPG aspects of the game (damage to cargo hold can matter if you're hauling cargo for a price), and I'd rather have damaged ship than destroyed ships.

I'm assuming Mayday with tweaks became a default for a lot people?

***

Here's are the key things I'm looking for:

• Something fun to play (tense die rolls)
• Something playable (not a nightmare to figure out every two minutes)
• Some system mastery that increases the more the Players play
• A system that ends up integrating back into the RPG aspects by using consumables, requiring repairs, and encouraging upgrades to be better defended and more capable "next time"

The last one is what prompted all this. I realized that if you look at LBBs 1-3 holistically, the starship combat system really drives a need for money -- lots and lots of money. Especially if you've been burned and you want better odds next time. (Keep in mind I'm using only Book 2, not High Guard, so the PCs actually can fight on a level playing field with investments -- if not a higher ground.

 

[Supplement Four]

Notice that launching sand comes late in the Space Combat Turn Sequence, right before Computer Reprogramming, so given that, logically, Sandcasters are definitely not point defense weapons.

Judging by the sequence, sand clouds are launched preemptively, as a shield to guard against incoming beam attacks. Given the distance involved in Space Combat, you wouldn't need to cover the entire ship with particles. The volume carried by a single missile canister would be enough, though, to throw a pillow cloud between the ship and any incoming laser fire.

I despise bookkeeping, but it seems that one easy to way to keep track of sand clouds on a hex board would be to say that one sand canister protects one of the hex sides. Any incoming beam fire that goes through that hex side is subject to the sand's protection. And, it would take six canisters to protect all sides of the ship.

Just a thought.

 

[Supplement Four]

Okay, I just cracked open Mayday.

Mayday is a bit "bigger" game. It'll accept larger spacecraft. As you said, it's more of a space battle game than a space combat system for a roleplaying game.

Most of the time, I use Range Band space combat from Starter Traveller. And, I focus the game on the inside of the ship, describing events outside only through what the players see through their scopes and instruments. Sometimes, I'll call for checks not mentioned in space combat--especially if the players want to know a specific piece of information I don't think they'd have automatically. I roleplay out damage situations. Sure, I still use the Book 2 Space Combat Turn sequence, but I allow roleplaying within those steps.

If Range Bands won't cover it (as with multiple craft), I'll go to hex-based vector movement.

Typically, though, unless combat happens very near a vessel's starting point, the player's craft will be in a straight line--and it becomes an exercise in how long it takes the player's ship to slow down and return to the combat area.

You can't assume a ship can maneuver as if it had no velocity if combat starts when the ship is an hour into its journey. The ship has already had a hour of thrust--maximum thrust--and can maneuver very little.



Book 5 is a very abstract system meant for capital ships and fleets of vessels going at each other--when it would be impractical to move each ship individually on a hex map.

But, there is a High Guard/Mayday conversion listed in JTAS. I haven't used it, but I understand it's a decent method of using Mayday's hex movement with High Guard's combat.

***

Here's are the key things I'm looking for:

• Something fun to play (tense die rolls)
• Something playable (not a nightmare to figure out every two minutes)
• Some system mastery that increases the more the Players play
• A system that ends up integrating back into the RPG aspects by using consumables, requiring repairs, and encouraging upgrades to be better defended and more capable "next time"

I think what I do is what you're looking for.

When a space combat situation starts...

1. Figure the velocity of the PC's ship at the start of the combat. Then do the same for the attacking vessel.

2. Use either a hex map or Range Bands. Those are easiest. Use Mayday's three-marker vector movement system until you get the hang of vector hex movement (it's easy to bend that straight line unless you are careful, and Mayday uses a past-present-future marker system).

3. Take time to cut back to the ship and roleplay what is happening within the ship. When players ask questions, answer them in terms of what their readings tell them. I'd familiarize myself with the different types of sensors that are available in Traveller. That way, you can couch your replies in terms of what those sensors report.

4. You may like the sensor system I developed for CT. It reads hard (I need to re-write it to show how easy it is, one of these days), but it's really a simply system. The sensor check is only a 1D, 2D, or 3D roll, looking for Computer Model Number or less. The number of dice used is based on range (same range categories as in the CT DM table for Space Combat Attacks). And, a range of player skills can influence the throw. See my sig.

5. Alternatively, CT assumes that just about all sensor information is automatically or easily obtained. Space is big and empty (as far as sensors are concerned). CT does give you some quick rules about the range of tracking a vessel and detection limits. All ships in the system are typically, very quickly, known. Any specifics, the Ref is supposed to supply as color. In certain situations--say, close to the magnetic sphere of a Gas Giant--the Ref is supposed to govern as he sees fit.

6. If I have a map of the internal decks of the player's ship, I will typically lay that out on the table in front of the players. If I have a hex map, that will go along side. If I'm using Range Bands, the players do not get to see the Range Band plot. Range can be told to the players through the Navigator, who is operating the ship's main sensors, or anybody who would have a plot on their console, like the pilot or a gunner (not an engineer or a steward). Often, I will switch into roleplaying mode and watch the players take care of things aboard ship during combat.









You wanted tense, high-flying adventure? I've had a hull hit before where the hull was venting atmo, and the ship's engineer had to go EVA during the space combat to patch the damage. Usually I'll do something like this when the attack throw is boxcars (double sixes, indicating something special that the crew is going to have to deal with). That was a neat game. The engineer, on the outside of the craft, watching the turret turn and fire laser beams out into the distance (the enemy was so far away--visibility is only about 10,000 km for a craft--that the engineer could not see the target). And, from a point in the darkness, arcs of white energy zip by above and blow the ship (misses). There the engineer worked, in his magnetic boots, tethered to the hull, his arc welder shining in the night. Neat stuff.

Remember, your attack throw for lasers in Space Combat does not represent just one shot from the lasers. It represents a number of shots over a 1,000 second period. Hundreds of laser shots, the turret zapping away, in hopes that one or more will tear into the hull of the enemy that cannot be seen with the naked eye.

And, there's no real reason why the lasers need to be light in the visible spectrum. Maybe the lasers in your Traveller universe cannot be seen without special equipment. That must be strange, eh? Seeing the turret turn, knowing that it's firing but seeing nothing, all the while all you can hear is what is inside your space suit--the rest of the vacuum silent as a grave.

Space Combat Rounds are 1,000 seconds long. That's over 16 minutes long. That's plenty of time to jump to roleplaying scenes within the space craft as Medics work to save injured crewmen, engineers work to repair damage, and captains talk space combat strategy with his bridge crew.

 

[GameDaddy]

We use the Classic Traveller rules as written except for the range band mod.



For example Emerald B766555-B is a world in the Spinward Marches. During the Autumn of 1107 (which it is now, in my campaign game) in the time of The Second Imperium, Emerald is under siege by the Zhodani, their Vargyr dog soldier allies, and the freebooting Sword World mercenaries. The Zhodani have landed a reinforced Army of ground forces on Emerald and they have every intention of forcing the Imperial troops to surrender, but the Emperors Troops are fighting back stubbornly. Some 400 years ago they settled this world, terraformed in some, and have many thriving cities, most of which were nuked out of existence in the first few days of the Fifth Frontier War.

The few cities that remain still maintain good enough air defenses so that the Zhodani Space Fleet cannot just sit in orbit over Imperial cities and bombard them. Instead they have blockaded Emerald, have cutoff all supplies to many of the remaining Imperial cities, and are working to starve the defenders into submission.

Today here is where you come in... As XO (executive officer) aboard the Ragnarok, Lieutenant Kubasik of the Second Imperium, (perhaps some distant kin of yours) watches this days proceedings with a great deal of Interest.

The Ragnarok is an 800 Ton Mercenary Cruiser. Ten days ago in Efate, the Ragnarok took aboard a Mechanized Company of 161 Imperial Soldiers and four Ground Effect Carriers belonging to the 2217th Imperial Marine Regiment, and made for Emerald to reinforce the besieged defenders there even though an attack on Efate by the Zhodani appears imminent.

Ragnarok 800 Ton Mercenary Cruiser
Jump Drive M, 65 Tons (Jump 3)
Manuever Drive N, 25 Tons, 3Gs acceleration
Power Plant N, 40 Tons (Power Plant 3)
Fuel 240 Tons
Bridge 20 Tons (Captain has Pilot-2 skills)
Computer Model 4, 4 Tons, 8 Active Programs 15 Total
24 Staterooms, 96 Tons
200 Low Berths, 100 Tons

Pinnace 40 Tons
Cutter 50 Tons (With an ATV module 30 Tons)

Cargo
20 Tons of small arms ammunition
2 tons of Grenades
4 Tons of Autocannon ammo
12 Tons of Marine Corps Food and Medical Supplies

Crew
Pilot
Executive Officer (You)
Navigator
4 Engineers
4 Stewards
1 Doctor
1 Medic
8 Gunners
1 Logistics Officer

Passengers
1 Marine Commander (Major Leland Davis)
10 Elite Marine Guards


In the Low Berths
135 Regular Marine Soldiers
1 Grav Carrier Commander (Marine Captain Forest Bennet)
1 Grav Carrier Executive Officer (Marine Lieutenant Paul R. Knight)
1 Grav Carrier Logistics Officer (Marine Warrant Officer Leon Hare)
4 Grav Carrier Marine Drivers
4 Grav Carrier Assistant Marine Drivers
4 Grav Carrier Marine Gunners

8 triple Hardpoints, 8 Tons
#1 Sandcaster (36 250 Kg Sand Bags available, 9 Loaded)
#2 Sandcaster (36 250 Kg Sand Bags available, 9 Loaded)
#3 3x Missile Launcher (36 Missiles available 9 Loaded)
#4 3x Missile Launcher (36 Missiles available 9 Loaded)
#5 3x Beam Laser
#6 3x Beam Laser
#7 3x Beam Laser
#8 3x Beam Laser

Computer Programs
(All)
Manuever -1 JB
Jump 3 - 2 J
Navigation - 1
Generate - 2 J
Anti-Hijack -1
Library -1
Autoevade -1 B
Return Fire - 1
Anti-Missile -2 B
Gunner Interact - 1 B
Launch - 1 B
Target - 1 B

Notes B=Loaded during Battle, J=Loaded for a JUmp

After Jumping into the system, The Ragnarok is undetected until it approaches to within approximately 9,000,000 Km of Emerald, Then it is picked up by on sensors by a 400 Ton Sword Worlds Mercenary Destroyer, The Phaedra. The Phaedra, along with the 200 Ton Sword World System Defense Missile Boat, the Athena are in a guard orbit around Emerald that allows them to intercept the Ragnarok before it can land. In addition, there is a patrol of Three Zhodani Fighters, Red One, Yellow One and Blue One, that are close to a nearby moon. All of the Zhodani blockade fleet break orbits to intercept the Ragnarok.

200t Athena Missile Defense Boat leading the 400t Destroyer Phaedra. Image

3 Zhodani Fighters orbiting Nearby Moon Image


Turn 1

The Imperial Mercenary Cruiser Ragnarok is the Intruder here.

Just a few conventions here to get going, each game turn represents about ten minutes
100mm = 10,000 Kilometers = 1 G of acceleration (approximate)
300mm (which is about One inch, the scale I'm using today) = 3 G of acceleration. So The mercenary cruiser velocity can accelerate by one additional (+1) inch each turn
One Range band equals 300mm, so also about 1 inch. Medium Range is 3 inches, Close is 2 inches, Point Blank is anything closer than 1 inch, long range is 4-10 inches, and extreme range is 10-21 inches Ships Sensors can reach and detect any other vessels under power out to about 3 feet (1 Meters) or so...

We use the classic turn sequence as listed on page 31 of book 2 starship.


Ragnarok burns for the planet at the steady velocity of 300mm
Ragnarok Launches 6 missiles at the Athena

Athena, Phaedra, and the Zhodani Fighters Maximum Burn for the Ragnarok
Athena MDB Launches 6 missiles at the Ragnarok
Phaedra Launches 6 Missiles and they are aimed at the first salvo of Missiles that Ragnarok Launched.


http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t90/awi1777/Traveller/Turn1_zps9a9bc964.jpg
Turn 1 Pix

Turn 2

Ragnarok Coasts towards the planet saving fuel (only 150 tons available)
Ragnarok Launches a second salvo of six missile at the DD Phaedra

Athena, Pheadra, and the Zhodani Fighters acclerate once more.
Athena Velocity is now 300mm / turn Launches six missiles at the Ragnarok
Phaedra Velocity is now 200mm/turn, and Pheadra launches six missiles directed againt the second salvo of missiles that the Ragnarok launched.

At this point the separation between the fleets is only 4500mm, about 15 inches, or about 4,500,000 Km. They have already closed half the distance from the time Ragnarok was detected. Ragnarok is not wasting any time... The Sword World mercenaries can launch twice as many missiles as the Ragnarok, so the Ragnarok has to close fast in order to be able to bring the four medium range laser batteries to bear as well. Both fleets are still at long range, but they are closing fast.

Turn 2 Pix

 

[GameDaddy]

Turn 3
Ragnarok continues to coast towards Emerald
Ragnarok launches its 3rd salvo of Missiles at the DD Phaedra

Athena coasts towards Ragnarok, maintaining 300mm/turn making a slight attitude adjustment so that it will close on the Starboard (right) side of the Ragnarok. Phaedra also Coasts towards Ragnarok, maintaining 200mm/turn of velocity and only using fuel to adjust course to bring Phaedra to the Port (left) side of approaching Ragnarok. Athena is faster than Phaedra, so it will be at close range a turn or two before Phaedra. Athena has only two missile launchers. Pheadra has two missile launchers and two 3x beam lasers. Each of the Zhodani fighters only has 1x beam laser.

Athena Launches 6 Missiles at the Ragnarok
Phaedra launches it's 3rd salvo of 6 Missiles at the 3rd salvo of Missiles that Ragnarok launched.

At this point all of the Missile turrets are empty. Because everyone has triple missile launchers, it means it will take everyone 3 turns (or about 30 minutes) to reload. So, it will be turn 7 more the next salvo of missiles can be loosed.

Turn 3 Pix


Turn 4
Ragnarok coasts for Emerald at 300mm/turn.
Ragnarok reloads missiles 1/3

Athena MDB begins a flanking manuever and accelerates by 300mm making his velocity this turn 600mm/turn. Athena reloads missiles 1/3
Phaedra closes with Ragnarok and maintains 200mm/turn. Pheadra reloads missiles 1/3
The fighters close on Ragnarok and are coasting at 600mm/turn

The first salvo of missiles launched by Ragnarok are intercepted by the first salvo of missiles launched by the Destroyer Phaedra. Pheadra gunners need a 7+ to hit, they get two hits and destroy two of the missiles that are targeted at Athena. Any hit will completely destroy a missile

The second salvo of six missiles launched by Ragnarok are intercepted by the second salvo of missiles from the Phaedra. Phaedra Missile Officers need a 7+ to hit. Theyget two hits and destroy two of the missiles that were the first targeted at the Phaedra.

Yes, missiles can be against missiles to defend against long range attack. As a defender, it works best when you have a 2-1 or better ratio of missiles targeting the incoming missiles.

Turn 5
Ragnarok burns for Emerald accelerating to 600mm/turn. Ragnarok reloads missiles 2/3
All four of the missiles remaining that are targeted at the Athena now see if they hit, a 7+ is needed, and NO MISSILES STRIKE THE ATHENA... ALL FOUR MISS!!!

Athena Flanks, Decelerates to 300mm/turn and reloads missiles 2/3
Phaedra burns for the Ragnarok maintaining 200mm/turn and reloads missiles 2/3
The Zhodani Fighters burn for Ragnarok maintaining 600mm/turn speed.

Salvo 3 of missiles from the Phaedra intercept the 3rd salvo of missiles launched by the Ragnarok. This time four of six of the Ragnaroks' missiles are destroyed in the exchange leaving only 2 missiles in the 3rd salvo.

Turn 6

Ragnarok changes course and burns to intercept Athena at 300mm/turn. Finishes reloading missiles 3/3. On turn 7 Ragnarok will be ready to launch more missiles. At this point the Athena is at medium range and is now in range of the beam lasers. Ragnarok fires all four triple turrets at the Athena, striking it twice and doing 6 hull damage. Athena is 200 tons... it has 200 hull points so now it is 194/200 hp. If it reaches 0 hull points, Athena disintegrates.

Athena closes with Ragnarok at 300mm/turn and also finishes reloading missiles this turn. 3/3
Pheadra also closes with Ragnarok at 200mm/turn and also finishes reloading its' missile rack 3/3

Of first salvo of six missiles from Pheadra, three missiles strike the Ragnarok. The first does 2 hull damage 798/800. The second does 3 hits to the computer almost knocking it out and requiring the pilot or navigator to make a successful 8+ skills check to avoid a computer malfunction (Pilot of the Ragnarok rolls a 10, just keeping the computer going!). 60 tons of fuel are lost as the third missile detonates just outside of one of the major fuel tanks doing six separate hits (max damage for a standard missile!). It's good thing the fuel tanks have self-sealing fuel bladders or all the shrapnel from that last missile hit would have drained all Ragnarok's available fuel. Fuel 90/150. Can still make a jump 1 if need be!

The second salvo of six missiles from the Phaedra also strikes the Ragnarok. The first two missiles deliver eight more hull hits 790/800 and the third does 4 additional damage to the ships' computer knocking it out permanently.

Turn 7
With the ships' computer down, the Ragnarok Pilot fights to control the ship flying manually with a successful Pilot skills roll needing to roll a 5+ to manually fly the cruiser from the bridge. All the gunners have to do their own targeting as well, and need to manually launch missiles instead of letting the computer launch them for them.

Ragnarok closes to point blank range, less than 1,000 km, and let's loose at the Athena with everything she has got including a full salvo of six new loaded missiles and all four triple beam laser turrets. Velocity 300mm/turn

Two missiles (7+ to hit) strike the Athena, one doing 5 hull damage 189/200 and the second missile strikes one of Athena's fuel bays draining 30 tons of fuel. Fuel: 10/40 Three of the four lasers hit (6+ to hit at point-blank range). The first laser turret strikes Athena's type C manuever drive completely destroying it with 3 hits. The second laser hit destroys one of Athena's Missile turrets, and the third laser hit Strikes Athenas' computer doing 3 hits of damage to it Computer 1/4. Now it's the pilot of the Athena that has to keep the crippled ships computer going with a 7+ skills roll. He succeeds with a roll of eight!

Athena looses a salvo of 3 missiles with the remaining triple missile turret and one hits Ragnarok doing 6 more hull damage. (784/800).

Phaedra brakes hard and attempts to match velocity with the Ragnarok. The idea is to knock out all of Ragnaroks gun turrets, and send over a boarding party to capture the Imperial Cruiser. Phaedra launches its 4th Salvo of missiles at the Ragnarok and fires both beam lasers from medium range needing a 9+ to hit and misses... both times.

The third Salvo of six missiles from Phaedra strike the Ragnarok. Four hit, doing 7 hits to the Cargo hold. Hull (777/800). One of the Marines Grav Carriers is lost as it is sucked out into space in a cloud of cargo debris! Rapid decompression of pressurized cargo holds truly suck and the Grav Carrier failed its 7+ saving throw! The other three Grav Carriers deck lashing held them down. Yay! The third hit does 3 more hull hits (774/800), and the fourth takes out one of Ragnaroks' 3x beam lasers.

Turn 7 Pix

 

[GameDaddy]

Turn 8
Ragnarok pilot makes a successful piloting roll 5+ and accelerates to 600mm/turn in order establish a low orbit around Emerald. Ragnarok launches a second salvo of six missiles at Athena and fires all three remaining beam lasers at Athena as well.
7+ to hit for all hits.
Four out of six missiles hit. Two missiles hit Athenas' already burning computer completely destroying it and leaving a gaping 3m hole in the Athena just forward of the Bridge. Athenas' manuever drive is struck by a triple beam lasers completely wrecking it. The second beam laser hits doing 3 hull damage 186/200, and the third takes out Athenas' remaining missile rack.

With no computers, no manuever drives, and no missile turrets Athena is not destroyed, but effectively disabled and out of this fight drifting helplessly away in space. Easy pickings for any competent boarding party... Athena and her crew will require the assistance of a rescue cutter or other space vessel or will die a slow death drifting silently ever further away from Emerald.


Phaedra closes until they can visibly see Ragnarok and then launches six more missiles at the Ragnarok, and brings both 3x beam lasers to bear as well. Four out of six missiles from the 4th Salvo strike Ragnarok, and do 12 additional hull damage 744/800 and completely wreck Ragnaroks computer. One of the gun turrets hits and does 3 hull damage 741/800. The second laser turret takes out one of the Ragnaroks' remaining laser turrets 2/4.

Zhodani Yellow One fighter fires from close range 7+ and misses
Zhodani Blue One fighter fires from medium range 8+ and misses.

Turn 8 Pix

Turn 9

Ragnarok decelerates to 300mm/turn as part of the orbital insertion maneuver, launches six missiles at the Phaedra (7+ to hit), and fires the two remaining triple laser turrets (6+ to hit). ALL SIX MISSILES HITS AS WELL AS BOTH LASER CANNONS. Phaedra is punished! Taking 2 hull hits from the first missile. The second missile wrecks the Phaedras' Manuever drive. Phaedra loses one of its missile launchers, then 20 tons of fuel from the fourth missile hit, then five cargo hold damage wrecking the lifeboat maneuver drive. It takes 4 more hull hits from the last missile strike, and Ragnaroks two lasers hit both the manuever and jump drive fuel tanks draining them both comletely... Fuel (0/60).

Matching the Ragnaroks' velocity Phaedra fires 3 missiles and two laser cannons (7+ to hit)
Two missiles hit and both laser cannons hit. The first missile does 2 hits of damage to the Jump drive, and the second hits the cargo hold doing four more points of hull damage (737/800) and destroying another Grav Carrier. 30 tons of fuel are lost from a laser cannon (Fuel 60/150), and the last laser cannon does an additional 3 hull hits. Hull (734/800).

Zhodani Yellow One fighter fires from point blank range 6+ and does a critical hit destroying the magnetic power couplings causing the power plant to implode.
Zhodani Blue One fighter fires from point blank range 6+ and misses.
Zhodani Red One fighter fires from medium range 8+ and does 1 hull hit.

Turn 9 Pix

Turn 10
Ragnarok reloads missile turrets 1/3. All Crew Code Black (Vacc suits are broken out as the life support systems onboard and all emergency power will fail when the ships batteries fail (in 6 turns).
Zhodani Yellow One fighter fires from point blank range 6+ and misses.
Zhodani Blue One fighter fires from point blank range 6+ and does one hull hit (733/800).
Zhodani Red One fighter fires from point blank range and destroys the #1 sandcaster turret.


http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t90/awi1777/Traveller/Turn10_zps0a55ae26.jpg
Turn 10 Pix

Turn 11 (4/6)
Ragnarok Reloads Missiles 2/3. Pilot (7+ skills roll) manually fires attitude thrusters and brings the Ragnarok into a stable low orbit.

Zhodani Yellow One fighter fires from point blank range 6+ and does one hull hit (732/800).
Zhodani Blue One fighter fires from point blank range 6+ and misses.
Zhodani Red One fighter fires from point blank range 6+ and misses.

Turn 11 Pix

Turn 12 (3/6)
Ragnarok reloads missiles 3/3 and is in stable close orbit around Emerald.

Zhodani Yellow One fighter fires from point blank range 6+ and hits Ragnarok and Ragnarok loses 20 fuel (30/150)
Zhodani Blue One fighter fires from point blank range 6+ and does 2 cargo Hold hits (730/800).
Zhodani Red One fighter fires from point blank range 6+ and does 2 hull hits (728/800)

Turn 13 (2/6)

Ragnarok missile officers fires 2 missiles manually at each Zhodani Fighter

Red One takes 3 hull hits from blast shrapnel hull (3/10)
Yellow One takes 1 hull hit from missile shrapnel (1/10)
Blue One is hit and loses all of its' fuel. With the last remaining fuel in its lines, it does a deorbit burn where it will re-enter the atmosphere of Emerald and hopefully be able to glide to a safe landing in Zhodani friendly territory.

Zhodani Yellow One fighter fires from point blank range 7+ and misses.
Zhodani Red One fighter fires from point blank range 7+ and misses.

Turn 13 Pix

Turn 14 (1/6)

Ragnarok missile officers fires 3 missiles manually at each Zhodani Fighter

Yellow Ones' manuever Drive is obliterated and Yellow One issues a Mayday call with a surrender offer.
Red Ones' computer is destroyed.

Red one begins a deorbit burn to re-enter Emeralds Atmosphere and fires one last time at Ragnarok 7+ hitting and doing 2 hull damage (726/800).

Turn 15 (0/6)

Ragnarok fires all six remaining missiles at Red One.

Two missiles hit, and Rlue One begins losing fuel, and takes 1 more hull hit. 4/10

Turn 15 Pix

Epilogue
This battle is over. The Ragnarok loses emergency power and goes pitch black silently orbiting Emerald. The Ragnarok crew makes their way to the cargo hold and preps the Pinnace and Cutter for a planetary landing. The Elite Marine guard and the Major take one of the Grav Carriers and load it into the cutter. The rest of the Marines ammunition and supplies are loaded into the Pinnace by the Marines with the help of the ships crew.

No one wastes any time. The Captain of the Ragnarok needs a new Powerplant as soon as possible. Although only lightly damaged the Ragnarok is crippled and free-floating helplessly in low orbit at the moment. Any Zhodani Fleet arrivals within the next 24-48 hours or any Zhodani planetary launches could spell the end for the Ragnarok.

The remaining 135 members of B company, 1st battalion the 3117th Imperial marines also need to be revived from their cold sleep aboard the Ragnarok. They are desperately needed to help the besieged Imperial defenders entrenched on the outskirts of the besieged cities below.

Three Weeks Later...

Lieutenant Kubasik looks over the jump drive control panel as the Captain initiates the Jump sequence that will bring the Ragnarok back safely to Efate, deep and safe behind the Imperial front lines.

...3 ...2 ...1 JUMP.....

Captain
“Get a bearing on Efate A646930-D... burn for it ASAP “

Logistics Officer (on comms)
“Captain, we have an incoming transmission from a Zhodani Vessel!”

Captain
“Whhhaaaa???!... Put them on speaker.”

Zhodani Admiral
This is Admiral Naieia Stienzhe of the Flagship Ajev. Your transponder codes are not recognized Zhodani codes. Bring your ship to a course of 000 bearing 000 and stop. Prepare to be boarded...

The captain snapped off the intercom and the viewscreen even as the Admiral continued speaking.

Captain
“Oh hell no! Here we go again! Lieutenant Kubasik, sound general quarters and tell the crew to prepare for battle! This is not a Drill!”

Logistics Officer (Yelling on comms)
IT”S THE ZHODANI FIRST ASSAULT FLEET. THERE ARE FOUR DREADNOUGHT CLASS VESSELS HERE!!! A ZHODANI HEAVY CRUISER SQUADRON AND I CAN”T GET A COUNT ON THE FRIGATES AND DESTROYERS HERE... There's more... ...ANOTHER ZHODANI FLEET OVER BY EFATE!

​

 

[Supplement Four]

We use the Classic Traveller rules as written except for the range band mod.

Technically, the Range Band system is not a rule mod but a choice in rules for Classic Traveller, since it is presented in Starter Traveller.

Your write up below is fantastic, btw.

Notes B=Loaded during Battle, J=Loaded for a JUmp

I still love the old CT computer rules, too. Most people argue about how archaic and unrealistic they are, and all Traveller versions have dropped them (MT doesn't use them, does it? Can't remember.)

But, they're FUN!

My current handwave is that they're not just single computer apps. They're integrated systems of hardware and software clusters. For example, if you have AutoEvade, then the ship's maneuver thrusters are upgraded injectors for faster response and partially controlled by a integrated sensor package.

That's a lot more believable than the program just being a single piece of software that takes up a large portion of the ship's storage area.

After Jumping into the system, The Ragnarok is undetected until it approaches to within approximately 9,000,000 Km of Emerald, Then it is picked up by on sensors by a 400 Ton Sword Worlds Mercenary Destroyer, The Phaedra.

Question: How did you determine this? Ref fiat? Or are you using some type of Navigation/sensors throw?

CT says Military sensors will detect out to two light seconds (about 600,000 km).

Just a few conventions here to get going, each game turn represents about ten minutes

I thought you said that you were using CT rules. The CT Space Combat round is 1,000 seconds long. That's 16.67 minutes long. Why 10 minutes?

Ragnarok Coasts towards the planet saving fuel (only 150 tons available)

Question: Per CT, the M-Drive has fuel for about a month (4 weeks) of standard insystem activity. Why concern yourself with saving fuel now?

At this point the separation between the fleets is only 4500mm, about 15 inches, or about 4,500,000 Km. They have already closed half the distance from the time Ragnarok was detected. Ragnarok is not wasting any time... The Sword World mercenaries can launch twice as many missiles as the Ragnarok, so the Ragnarok has to close fast in order to be able to bring the four medium range laser batteries to bear as well. Both fleets are still at long range, but they are closing fast.

I guess the base CT rules don't limit the burns a missile can make. A fire missile has enough fuel to travel 4,500,000 km if it needs to and still maneuver (not coast).

It's been a long time since I've read the Missiles supplement, but I remember a limit being placed on missiles--that they could only be used for X number of turns after being fired.

 

[Supplement Four]

Yes, missiles can be against missiles to defend against long range attack. As a defender, it works best when you have a 2-1 or better ratio of missiles targeting the incoming missiles.

How do you keep track of which missile is targeting which enemy missile, especially when so many are on the playing board?

I like the idea of a missile targeting an enemy missile, though. I suppose if contact is made (a hit is made), then the only damage is destruction of both missiles.

That's a good interpolation of the rules.

I like how your example, too, shows how missiles can be extremely fun in space combat.

And, like the OP said, they become an expensive item to replace once they are expended.

 

[boomslang]

1) Does the Vector Combat really pay off? As far as I can tell direction has no bearing on hits or damage. (Range will affect laser fire). So... what do we get for it... (Let's leave planetary templates aside for the moment.)

One fun effect is that it is actually possible for a high-G vessel to dodge incoming missiles by out-maneuvering them iff the missiles' vectors have grown too long to accommodate quick changes of course.

Another interesting consequence is the ability for pursuers to outflank sand clouds the fleeing vessel may have dropped in front of them.

Neither of these is an option with range band combat.

2) Except! Sand casters spread sand out in space. It seems that those clouds of sand become interesting tactical elements in vector play, if you're trying to use the cloud as protection or get around it to hit a ship. Yes? Are they interesting?

But, does it say anywhere how big the spread of sand is?

Objects in space retain their kinetic energy unless acted upon by an external force. I figure a sand cloud quickly spreads out to about a 2500km diameter in the first turn, and dissipates to ineffective in the next turn, becoming little more that unusually glittery interstellar dust evermore.

3) “Missiles move as if they were ships with maneuver drive-5”. (according to errata I found). Okay, at least I now know how the missile home in on a target. Do people actually play out the missiles? With a maneuver drive-5, it is going to eventually reach it's target after a while. (Remember, I'm only using LBB 2 -- No High Guard, no Mayday. Not going deep in the weeds here.) Now it might be destroyed by anti-missile fire. But it will get to the target. Has anyone found a quick way to abstract the missiles. Because what really matters is when and how it interacts with the target, not if. Right?

There are several different baseline performance specs for missiles that are more or less canonical in CT/BT/ST.

6Gs for 4 weeks, IR homing is perhaps the most dangerous variant.

Given that missiles in the not-used-in-this-application High Guard can hit at 500000km, the 5Gs for ten turns model seems a reasonable BT baseline for HG to be extrapolating from.

(Venturing briefly in the weeds of Mayday, I always liked the idea in those rules that using the Maneuver/Evade program consumes 1G of a vessel's available acceleration, meaning a 6G vessel targeted by both missile and laser fire would be faced with a choice between dodging the lasers or outrunning the missiles, but could not do both at the same time.

YMMVIYTU.)

4) I've just read about the range bands in Starter Traveller. I'm not sure if they help to much with the questions about Sand. But they might simplify some things. Do they?

Range bands work well-enough for simple chases, which is a scenario that typifies what PCs usually get themselves into, in my experience.

See the above notion about dodging missiles with a hard break turn perpendicular to the incoming vector, however, as well as the idea that a pursuer can outflank a chasee's sand, forcing the fleeing vessel to either coast (to stay with the coasting sand cloud), or adjust course each turn to keep the receding cloud between itself and the pursuer.

Range bands are not going to model that.

If I'm missing the logic of anything here, please have mercy. I'm trying to read rules that, from everything I've read here so far about the Starship Combat section, are somewhat troubled.

Also, for fun, I borrow from a very early edition to CT, and allow IR decoy missiles, with cost and performance the same as the default HE anti-ship missile. A decoy is launched against an entire single salvo from an enemy ship (Target program limitations apply, and all that), and once the decoy and the target flight get within 2500km of each other, the decoy takes out the whole salvo on a 3+, instead of the salvo flying on to its original target. But then, I love missile combat.

Also, it comes up on other threads here and there, but I always let both sides move before beginning the firing phase and all the other phases for one side and then the other; run a few pursuit scenarios and you will see why: it is weird to have the chase expand and contract -- with subsequent effects on weapon and tracking ranges -- depending on who is shooting.

If you want serious wargame-style space battles, vector combat is great; if you want something simple and straightforward that does not bog down a roleplaying situation with lots of nit-picking geometry, range bands can get the job done with minimal fuss. I figure: use what works best for you, your players, and the style of your game, as it were.

 

[Supplement Four]

One fun effect is that it is actually possible for a high-G vessel to dodge incoming missiles by out-maneuvering them iff the missiles' vectors have grown too long to accommodate quick changes of course.

I was just about to say this. In the example I gave upthread, the player's vessel passes the Corsair attack after 4 plus hours of 3G acceleration.

It's important to fire your missiles early, otherwise, it may be too much for the missiles to compensate for the vector change after being launched. It will take too long (in the world of basic CT where missiles do not have a range and have unlimited fuel) or the missiles will go dead (if using the Missiles supplement where missiles are limited by fuel and have limited G burns).

On rare occasions, the vector issue will help your fired missiles zoom into an enemy quickly--when the target lie directly in your path. But, in space, that doesn't happen often, and missiles must overcome their launch velocity before swinging towards their targets.

Because of this, there are many situations where missiles are not useful at all.