Let's talk about DAMAGE!

[Supplement Four]

Here's something that, in all my years of playing Traveller, I've never been as clear about as I'd like to be.

Mainly, this is due to a vague rule description in Book 1.

Actually, I'll refer to the Traveller Book, pg. 35, where it says...

"The first wound received by any character, however, can be sufficient to sutn or daze him r her, and it is handled differently. The first wound is applied to one of the three physical characteristics (strength, dexterity, or endurance) determined randomly. If that characteristic is reduced to zero, then any remaining hits are then distributed tot he other physical characteristics on a random basis. As a result, first blood may immediately incapacitate or even kill."

Now, that seems pretty straight forward...until, that is, you see later in the CT rules that the term "wounds" tend to refer to a single die of damage, and the term "hits" tends to mean a number of points of damage.

If you look at pg 47 of the Traveller Book, you'll see this...

"Wounds are applied to the physical characteristics, temporarily reducing them for the duration of the combat. Each die rolled for wounds is treated as a group of hits that should not be divided; for example, a 1D result of 5 should be treated as 5 hits to be applied as one group to one of the physical characteristics. Select the first phsical characteristic to receive wounds randomly; the wounded player character may select all subsequent physical characteristics to receive wounds."

Now, compare that with the previous quote above. Are they saying the same thing?

And, if they are, then WHAT is really being said?

If a character is damaged from an AutoPistol doing 3D damage, do ALL THREE DIE have to be randomly distributed among the three physical stats?

I know a lot of people read the rule that way--but, I'm not so sure that's what it says.

I think what it's saying is this:

-1- If a character is damaged, then the first die of damage is applied randomly to the three stats. If that random die causes a the stat to go to 0, then the remaining points FROM THAT ONE DIE are randomly distributed among the two other physical stats.

-2- All other damage (the other two dice from the AutoPistol's 3D damage roll) are applied to stats as the target character sees fit--defender's choice.

I'm curious about your take on this. Do you read the rules as being "All dice in the first damage roll are distributed randomly, but after that first damage, the defender gets to apply damage from any other damage he receives as he chooses".

Or, do you see it more my way?

In my game, right now, what I do is have one die of each damage roll be of a different color. That die is always applied random (keeping damage deadly, the way it's supposed to be). All other damage is applied as the defender chooses.

Another thing--

I don't have the quote handy, but I know I've seen in CT that, except for the first blood rule, if a die of damage reduce a stat to 0, then all other points on that die are ignored (ie - not applied to the other stats).

For example, if you have a DEX-4, and a die of 5 points is applied to your DEX stat, then that extra point of damage is just ignored--it's not applied to your STR or your END.

If pressed, I'll dig through my Traveller Book here and see where it says that--but the TB DOES expressly say that First Blood is handled differently.

The question is, though: What is the official version of the First Blood rule?

Comments?

 

[Supplement Four]

Here's something that, in all my years of playing Traveller, I've never been as clear about as I'd like to be.

Mainly, this is due to a vague rule description in Book 1.

Actually, I'll refer to the Traveller Book, pg. 35, where it says...

"The first wound received by any character, however, can be sufficient to sutn or daze him r her, and it is handled differently. The first wound is applied to one of the three physical characteristics (strength, dexterity, or endurance) determined randomly. If that characteristic is reduced to zero, then any remaining hits are then distributed tot he other physical characteristics on a random basis. As a result, first blood may immediately incapacitate or even kill."

Now, that seems pretty straight forward...until, that is, you see later in the CT rules that the term "wounds" tend to refer to a single die of damage, and the term "hits" tends to mean a number of points of damage.

If you look at pg 47 of the Traveller Book, you'll see this...

"Wounds are applied to the physical characteristics, temporarily reducing them for the duration of the combat. Each die rolled for wounds is treated as a group of hits that should not be divided; for example, a 1D result of 5 should be treated as 5 hits to be applied as one group to one of the physical characteristics. Select the first phsical characteristic to receive wounds randomly; the wounded player character may select all subsequent physical characteristics to receive wounds."

Now, compare that with the previous quote above. Are they saying the same thing?

And, if they are, then WHAT is really being said?

If a character is damaged from an AutoPistol doing 3D damage, do ALL THREE DIE have to be randomly distributed among the three physical stats?

I know a lot of people read the rule that way--but, I'm not so sure that's what it says.

I think what it's saying is this:

-1- If a character is damaged, then the first die of damage is applied randomly to the three stats. If that random die causes a the stat to go to 0, then the remaining points FROM THAT ONE DIE are randomly distributed among the two other physical stats.

-2- All other damage (the other two dice from the AutoPistol's 3D damage roll) are applied to stats as the target character sees fit--defender's choice.

I'm curious about your take on this. Do you read the rules as being "All dice in the first damage roll are distributed randomly, but after that first damage, the defender gets to apply damage from any other damage he receives as he chooses".

Or, do you see it more my way?

In my game, right now, what I do is have one die of each damage roll be of a different color. That die is always applied random (keeping damage deadly, the way it's supposed to be). All other damage is applied as the defender chooses.

Another thing--

I don't have the quote handy, but I know I've seen in CT that, except for the first blood rule, if a die of damage reduce a stat to 0, then all other points on that die are ignored (ie - not applied to the other stats).

For example, if you have a DEX-4, and a die of 5 points is applied to your DEX stat, then that extra point of damage is just ignored--it's not applied to your STR or your END.

If pressed, I'll dig through my Traveller Book here and see where it says that--but the TB DOES expressly say that First Blood is handled differently.

The question is, though: What is the official version of the First Blood rule?

Comments?

 

[sid6.7]

whats so difficult it knowing what the person
who wrote the rules meant...when he wrote them he knew
exactly what he meant and when he read what he
wrote it made sense...

interpretation sucks.....

i would agree with your above interpretation
that the first die goes to one stat then the
remaining points go whereever...

defenders choice on any of the stats first die or not

 

[sid6.7]

whats so difficult it knowing what the person
who wrote the rules meant...when he wrote them he knew
exactly what he meant and when he read what he
wrote it made sense...

interpretation sucks.....

i would agree with your above interpretation
that the first die goes to one stat then the
remaining points go whereever...

defenders choice on any of the stats first die or not

 

[mike wightman]

Keep reading The Traveller Book, page 36 gives an example of combat.

It clearly shows that the first wound rule means all three dice are applied to the same random characteristic.

Any left over damage is then applied to a random characteristic on a dice by dice basis.

Also clearly explained by the example is that unused damage points are carried over to other characteristics.

 

[mike wightman]

Keep reading The Traveller Book, page 36 gives an example of combat.

It clearly shows that the first wound rule means all three dice are applied to the same random characteristic.

Any left over damage is then applied to a random characteristic on a dice by dice basis.

Also clearly explained by the example is that unused damage points are carried over to other characteristics.

 

[mike wightman]

Here's a thread where this came up, from a while ago:

http://www.travellerrpg.com/cgi-bin/Trav/CotI/Discuss/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=44;t=000142;p=1

 

[mike wightman]

Here's a thread where this came up, from a while ago:

http://www.travellerrpg.com/cgi-bin/Trav/CotI/Discuss/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=44;t=000142;p=1

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by Sigg Oddra:
Keep reading The Traveller Book, page 36 gives an example of combat.

It clearly shows that the first wound rule means all three dice are applied to the same random characteristic.

Any left over damage is then applied to a random characteristic on a dice by dice basis.

Also clearly explained by the example is that unused damage points are carried over to other characteristics.

Well, I'll be. No kiddin'

Crap!

Well, I can't use that rule in my games. Heck, everybody will be dead!

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by Sigg Oddra:
Keep reading The Traveller Book, page 36 gives an example of combat.

It clearly shows that the first wound rule means all three dice are applied to the same random characteristic.

Any left over damage is then applied to a random characteristic on a dice by dice basis.

Also clearly explained by the example is that unused damage points are carried over to other characteristics.

Well, I'll be. No kiddin'

Crap!

Well, I can't use that rule in my games. Heck, everybody will be dead!

 

[mike wightman]

I personally think that the first blood rule is unrealistic and far too deadly.

IMTU I've toyed with quite a few fixes.

My current way to do it is to have pistols cause 1D of base damage, rifles 2D, roll for hit location and then add an extra damage die or two if a critical location is indicated.

I do use the first blood rule if an exceptional success is made on any to hit roll, not just the first.

 

[mike wightman]

I personally think that the first blood rule is unrealistic and far too deadly.

IMTU I've toyed with quite a few fixes.

My current way to do it is to have pistols cause 1D of base damage, rifles 2D, roll for hit location and then add an extra damage die or two if a critical location is indicated.

I do use the first blood rule if an exceptional success is made on any to hit roll, not just the first.

 

[mike wightman]

Originally posted by WJP:
Well, I'll be. No kiddin'

Crap!

Well, I can't use that rule in my games. Heck, everybody will be dead!

Yup.

Dead dead dead

CT is nothing if not deadly.

Cinematic Action Hero versus the hordes it ain't

 

[mike wightman]

Originally posted by WJP:
Well, I'll be. No kiddin'

Crap!

Well, I can't use that rule in my games. Heck, everybody will be dead!

Yup.

Dead dead dead

CT is nothing if not deadly.

Cinematic Action Hero versus the hordes it ain't

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by Sigg Oddra:
I personally think that the first blood rule is unrealistic and far too deadly.

I was actually thinking the opposite--that it was very realistic...probably too realistic.

I guess the decision to use/not use that CT rule depends on what type of game you want to run.

If you have a lot of gunfights, you probably don't want to use that type of rule.

If you run a more role-playing based game (less action, more character interplay), then maybe the will fun *because* the gunfights are so realistic. Characters will shy away from 'em.

My only problem with this rule is that it's only used on the first wound. Why should the first time you're shot be any more deadly than being shot 15 seconds later?

I still think I'm going to go with the random-1D-per-damage-roll method I mention above, though.

I think I'll check out MT, too, and see if they mixed things up a bit with this...I remember that game used some type of damage point system that I never really used (or even bothered to fully understand).

I do use the first blood rule if an exceptional success is made on any to hit roll, not just the first.

What I do on SS is to roll twice the damage dice, but take half of the highest rolled.

So, if you hit with a weapon that does 3D damage, you'll roll 6D and take the higher three die as your damage.

 

[mike wightman]

Here's how I think about damage.

Damage is applied to the physical characteristics of the wounded party, with the controlling player deciding how the points are allocated.

Strength - damage to muscle
Dexterity - damage to sensory and nervous system
Endurance - organ damage, blood loss


An exceptional success cause all damage to a single characteristic, determined randomly (the old first blood rule). This represents the massive trauma that can occur if something vital is hit:

Strength - bone hit
Dexterity - head/spine hit
Endurance - major organ punctured/nicked artery


Oh, and bleeding.

When End is reduced to 0 start to lose a point of Str or Dex, players choice, each turn until medical aid stops the bleeding.

[edit]An exceptional success wound that causes End damage also causes bleeding, even if End is somehow not reduced to 0 by the wound damage.[/edit]

Once Str and Dex have been reduced to 0 lose a point of Edu or Int, players choice, each turn until medical aid.

Int and Edu loss represent brain damage, high TL medical treatment will be needed

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by Sigg Oddra:
I personally think that the first blood rule is unrealistic and far too deadly.

I was actually thinking the opposite--that it was very realistic...probably too realistic.

I guess the decision to use/not use that CT rule depends on what type of game you want to run.

If you have a lot of gunfights, you probably don't want to use that type of rule.

If you run a more role-playing based game (less action, more character interplay), then maybe the will fun *because* the gunfights are so realistic. Characters will shy away from 'em.

My only problem with this rule is that it's only used on the first wound. Why should the first time you're shot be any more deadly than being shot 15 seconds later?

I still think I'm going to go with the random-1D-per-damage-roll method I mention above, though.

I think I'll check out MT, too, and see if they mixed things up a bit with this...I remember that game used some type of damage point system that I never really used (or even bothered to fully understand).

I do use the first blood rule if an exceptional success is made on any to hit roll, not just the first.

What I do on SS is to roll twice the damage dice, but take half of the highest rolled.

So, if you hit with a weapon that does 3D damage, you'll roll 6D and take the higher three die as your damage.

 

[mike wightman]

Here's how I think about damage.

Damage is applied to the physical characteristics of the wounded party, with the controlling player deciding how the points are allocated.

Strength - damage to muscle
Dexterity - damage to sensory and nervous system
Endurance - organ damage, blood loss


An exceptional success cause all damage to a single characteristic, determined randomly (the old first blood rule). This represents the massive trauma that can occur if something vital is hit:

Strength - bone hit
Dexterity - head/spine hit
Endurance - major organ punctured/nicked artery


Oh, and bleeding.

When End is reduced to 0 start to lose a point of Str or Dex, players choice, each turn until medical aid stops the bleeding.

[edit]An exceptional success wound that causes End damage also causes bleeding, even if End is somehow not reduced to 0 by the wound damage.[/edit]

Once Str and Dex have been reduced to 0 lose a point of Edu or Int, players choice, each turn until medical aid.

Int and Edu loss represent brain damage, high TL medical treatment will be needed

 

[Supplement Four]

Strength - damage to muscle
Dexterity - damage to sensory and nervous system
Endurance - organ damage, blood loss

Like this. As a matter of fact, I'm copying this right now and saving it for my notes.

Good stuff.

 

[Supplement Four]

Strength - damage to muscle
Dexterity - damage to sensory and nervous system
Endurance - organ damage, blood loss

Like this. As a matter of fact, I'm copying this right now and saving it for my notes.

Good stuff.