Ley Sector Map

[AndreaV]

I've just checked out the map of the Ley Sector on the T20 website. The very first thing that struck me was all the Vilani names. Is this level of Vilani penetration really warranted?

From my understanding of the colonisation of the domain, most of it was settled during the Rule of Man. The maps from CT seem to indicate that the Ziru Sirka only got three subsectors in Ley (A, E, and I). To me this would indicate that the Solomani influence might be stronger.

 

[Clay Bush]

The Vilani Imperium had barred settlement beyond existing borders for millennia. When the RoM started the Solomani dropped many Vilani economic rules, and there was a resurgence before things resumed going downhill. Part of that economic restructuring was new colonization beyond the Vilani Imperium borders.

Most of the settlers and leaders that far from the Solomani sphere would be cultural Vilani. There are Solomani present, but think along the number of Romans in Egypt and Palestine in the first century A.D. the locals far outnumber the new governors.

 

[Clay Bush]

I left out one thing:

My two cents.

I do not work for Quiklink.

 

[AndreaV]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Clay Bush:
I left out one thing:


My two cents.


I do not work for Quiklink.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, but do you play one on TV?

(Sorry, I've had a lousy day and my sense of humour is playing up)

 

[hunter]

The names are taken from what Marc supplied us with, and I believe are from Atlas of the Imperium.

This does not mean that the locals may not use a different name for the world than what the Vilani assigned.

And note, the Vilani did explore through this region before the founding of the Ziru Sirka, and is from that period that the names were likely given, and have been kept through the Rule of Man and 3rd Imperium

Hunter
And I do work for QuikLink ;-P


[This message has been edited by hunter (edited 14 May 2001).]

 

[AndreaV]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hunter:
This does not mean that the locals may not use a different name for the world than what the Vilani assigned.

And note, the Vilani did explore through this region before the founding of the Ziru Sirka, and is from that period that the names were likely given, and have been kept through the Rule of Man and 3rd Imperium

Hunter
And I do work for QuikLink ;-P

[This message has been edited by hunter (edited 14 May 2001).]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's probably a good enough handwave.

 

[T. Foster]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hunter:
The names are taken from what Marc supplied us with, and I believe are from Atlas of the Imperium.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

AotI only assigned names to HiPop worlds. Note that most of the HiPop worlds on the Ley Sector map actually AREN'T Vilani names, and they're pretty much the only ones that aren't.

This leads me to suspect that the other names (i.e. the Vilani ones) came from the same random-Vilani-word-generator that Marc used to name the worlds for T4's First Survey.

While no doubt the Vilani did assign such names to these worlds many millenia ago, and an atlas purchased on Vland probably still lists them that way, surely the locals in IY 1000 have renamed the vasy majority of these worlds (particularly considering the heavy Solomani presence), and the maps and background should definitely reflect the names in common use by the locals, not what some Vilani bureaucrat decided 5000 years ago.

 

[Red Queen]

One of the things that struck me as odd: none of the X-Boat routes extend off the map. Understandable, but odd.

 

[hunter]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Red Queen:

One of the things that struck me as odd: none of the X-Boat routes extend off the map. Understandable, but odd.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thats an artifact of the program used to generate the map. They do in reality extend 'off the map' and when published this will be corrected.

Hunter

 

[Murph]

Will the domain of Gateway become the new defacto standard for the Imperium? I would like to see some nice maps for this region.

 

[Uncle Bob]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by T. Foster:
and the maps and background should definitely reflect the names in common use by the locals, not what some Vilani bureaucrat decided 5000 years ago.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Don't be so sure about this. A lot of towns in America have 200 yr old Indian names. There are places in Britain (don't ask me which) that have non-Indo-European names. So the original name was used by the Cumbrogi (Celtic Britains), Romans, and survived 1500 years of the English language.

 

[T. Foster]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Uncle Bob:
Don't be so sure about this. A lot of towns in America have 200 yr old Indian names. There are places in Britain (don't ask me which) that have non-Indo-European names. So the original name was used by the Cumbrogi (Celtic Britains), Romans, and survived 1500 years of the English language.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Be that as it may, it doesn't explain the disparity on the map where the HiPop worlds have a mix of names (Vilani, Anglic, seeming-nonsense words) while ALL the other worlds are either Vilani words or strings of numbers.

Sure we can justify this by claiming that a large population is more likely to rename their world or some such, but when the RW explanation is so obvious (HiPop worlds were named by hand for AotI, other worlds were named by random Vilani word-generator) and this data hasn't yet been published officially/canonically, I see no reason why we can't take the preemptive step of renaming some of the non-HiPop worlds to more closely match the (canonical) mix of name-styles from AotI.

 

[Uncle Bob]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by T. Foster:
While no doubt the Vilani did assign such names to these worlds many millenia ago, and an atlas purchased on Vland probably still lists them that way, surely the locals in IY 1000 have renamed the vasy majority of these worlds (particularly considering the heavy Solomani presence), and the maps and background should definitely reflect the names in common use by the locals, not what some Vilani bureaucrat decided 5000 years ago.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually, the Vilani names might still be in use. Towns in the NE US have Indian names still in use after 300 years. There are locations (mountains and rivers) in Britain that have pre-IndoEuropean names still in use after 3000 years.

 

[binky]

Originally posted by hunter:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Red Queen:

One of the things that struck me as odd: none of the X-Boat routes extend off the map. Understandable, but odd.

Thats an artifact of the program used to generate the map. They do in reality extend 'off the map' and when published this will be corrected.

Hunter</font>[/QUOTE]This will be in the first sourcebook correct?

In the mean time is there anyway to get an offline version of the map? I'm putting together some demo game stuff using the Linkworlds stuff that Martin has done, but would like to be able to give the players a little more of a broader picture of where they are. Unfortunately most UK convention halls or games shops don't have good internet connectivity to allow players access to the online version.

- Neil.

 

[T. Foster]

Talk about threads resurrecting from the grave! Nice to see though (from the current map on the site) that somewhere in the playtest process someone else must've agreed with me, 'cause it looks like most of those non-HiPop worlds have been renamed. Ahh, it feels good to be vindicated

 

[tjoneslo]

I can only tell you what we complained about from the GENII data, not what was changed.

The problem with the GENII data was it was completely randomly generated, with a bad randomizer, and never rechecked by anyone before posting. The problem is you end up with a billion people at TL1 living on an airless rockball. Once per sector may be interesting, but that kind of nearly impossible to describe situation occurs far too frequently in the very random CT System generation.

So the playtesters (andrewmv mostly) went through the data and tried to point out all of the impossible cases. Class A starport and TL less than 9, Class A starport and population less than 10,000, that sort of thing. What Hunter did with our suggestions I don't know, but I suspect he made several modifications.

Changing the names was another item. There were three worlds named "A" and two named "I" for example. I know the update names for the stars were posted to the Playtest list, I remember reading throught them.

So check through a random sampling of stars and see if you can find any of the really absurd UPPs.

 

[hunter]

Name changes were done to reflect the groups that likely inhabit the worlds/regions. The rimward subsectors were mostly settled by Solomani and thus many of the world names were changed to more Solomani versions of the original Vilani name or changed completely.

Changes to the UWPs were done in regard to 'impossible' stellar systems, and some changes in non-physical stats to reflect changes over time.

The baseline data for the sectors was provided by Marc and were complied by him from the AotI.

Hunter

 

[Anthony]

Hm...might be something about my choice of sample. For some reason the UWP for world 0101 is completely different (I have A545403-C, the new map has D720889-3). A quick checking of other worlds doesn't reveal the same anomalies, so it's probably a single exception of some sort.

 

[T. Foster]

Out of curiosity I did a side-by-side check from AotI (which I consider significantly more canonical than the GEnie files) to the info on the site. I only checked the HiPop/named worlds, and note that the listings here don't include bases (naval or scout). Here's what's different (AotI data first, T20 data second):

1002 - Didshap becomes Shamokin
0107 - Lousanne becomes L'Orient
1110 - Arum becomes Constantinople
0313 - desert world becomes 30% hydrosphere (name (Tile) unchanged)
0214 - Rurur becomes Runner
1014 - Lakam becomes Lakeham, starport B to D
0518 - Tling becomes Treading
0820 - Alef becomes Aleif
0921 - Sent becomes Sentry
0726 - Deugemaa becomes Second Chance, starport E to D
1228 - Nundishaag becomes Nundis
0129 - Dirir becomes Darren's Folly
1235 - Kiikkidir becomes Kiikkidia (typo in one source or the other?)
(Note: there are 34 HiPop worlds in AotI, so 62% were unchanged)

The name changes I can live with -- explaining how some of them came about might be fun -- and a few starport type changes over 70+ years is fine. That hydrosphere change is potentially more troubling, depending on how many of those were done.

 

[T. Foster]

Same thing for Glimmerdrift Reaches. Something seems screwy here, because the gas giant stats don't match for almost half of the HiPop worlds:

(out of 32 HiPop worlds)
0714 - no gg to 2 gg
1008 - gg to 0 gg
1113 - starport C to B, no gg to 1 gg
1131 - gg tp 0 gg
1438 - gg to 0 gg
1508 - gg to 0 gg
1525 - gg to 0 gg
1616 - starport D to E
1901 - gg to 0 gg
1906 - gg to 0 gg
2003 - gg to 0 gg
2132 - no gg to 2 gg
2322 - HiPop to pop 6
2434 - Starport A to B, HiPop to pop 8
2439 - gg to 0 gg
2823 - starport C to B, no gg to 1 gg
3040 - Canton becomes Makaag (note: site lists Pop B, which isn't possible under the rules)
3102 - starport E to C
3226 - gg to 0 gg