Local Honors & Soc

[Sir Brad]

How do Local Honours effect Soc, I ask as I'm GM'ing a character that has done something that will earn them a Local title, the person giving it out is a Planetary Monarch, but also a Imperial Count, the Count has recommended them for Imperial Honours as well, that will be a long time not coming. The character has also bean picking up some Service Decorations over the past few game years even though they are Auxiliary/Reserve/Detached Duty status, since they have bean helping out their former service and various Civil Authorities in there travels.

The characters Soc is currently 6, but they have bean living a Soc 8 lifestyle when they have extended layovers (a rear occurrence), should I bump their Soc and by how much if I do?

 

[atpollard]

I suggest handling it as a skill/ability increase per the rules set that you are using.

In Classic Traveller (LBB1-3), characters typically earn about 2 skills/abilities per 4 years and can 'train' str/dex/end for a +1 every four years. So in a CT-LBB1-3 game, I would raise the soc by 1-2 every 4 years as they are slowly learning their new social level and becoming accepted.

In a CT LBB4+ universe, you might get away with a +1 soc per year.

.......................................................................................................

Another option would be to look to the Muster out benefits tables ... apparently it is possible to get a +2 soc boost as a benefit for 4 years of service.

Since I like translating rolls into events, I would have his sponsor host a significant formal social event in the character's honor to publicly make known the official gratitude for his service. If he survives the event without killing anyone or getting arrested then the publicity will result in a +2 boost in soc ... just like the muster out benefit.

If he keeps up the good work, then throw a party in his honor every 4 years as he moves up the social ladder.
At some point it may be his responsibility to host a formal party to show that he has arrived at Soc 10 and is worthy of consideration for higher honors.

YMMV

 

[Carlobrand]

Clarify please. The titled honors are SOC 11 and higher: knight and so forth. Is the local monarch granting a knighthood?

The game does not mention lesser honors, but there is historical precedent for the use of lesser titles such as squire or esquire (SOC 10, perhaps) to indicate one who is being considered for or groomed for a possible future knighthood (in this context one who has attracted official attention and they want people to know about it).

There is also the historical use of "gentleman" to describe individuals of gentle blood who did not inherit titles and have not yet earned them (perhaps SOC 9 - typically lesser sons of knights). In the game context, if one is not born of gentle blood, such honor might be officially conferred with the honoree recognized by proclamation as a gentleman in the course of announcing, say, an award for excellence in some pursuit or for some notable service. It carries no title, but the mention of the award (perhaps as an abbreviation after the name or a pin that one could wear) would itself indicate that the person is entitled to some small degree of respect.

I was given to understand that below the titled levels, much of the SOC reflected living that lifestyle: acquiring and exhibiting the style and quality of dress, the bearing, the manners of speech and etiquette, etc. Ergo, raising the SOC represented that the player had successfully learned aspects of bearing, appearance and manners of speech and behavior that prompted others interacting with him to view him as being entitled to greater respect, as opposed to coming across as a pretender or wannabe.

 

[rancke]

The rules have always overlooked planetary nobility and are absolutely no help with this question. Depending on what assumptions you make, planetary titles from the equivalent of country squires to the equivalent of world emperors may run from Soc 10 to Soc 13 or they may every last one of them be squeezed into Soc 10. You have to decide for yourself what the PCs new title corresponds to and up his Soc to that. In any case it should boost him out of Soc 6 by several levels.


Hans

 

[Sir Brad]

The awarding Monarch we'll call them a "Prime", the Prime is also a Imperial Count, now as Prime has used his powers as Prime to make the character the local equivalent of a Knight. As an Imperial Count he has also put the characters name forward for Imperial Honours, but isn't putting his Juice in to making it happen.

the Character has also bean mentioned (or had them issued for their activities) in several Sector wide Despatches for their former service, as well as numerous Sub-Sector Dispatches for other services or branches of the Bureaucracy, since the character moves around a bit those are spread around a few sub-sectors.

 

[Carlobrand]

The awarding Monarch we'll call them a "Prime", the Prime is also a Imperial Count, now as Prime has used his powers as Prime to make the character the local equivalent of a Knight. As an Imperial Count he has also put the characters name forward for Imperial Honours, but isn't putting his Juice in to making it happen.

the Character has also bean mentioned (or had them issued for their activities) in several Sector wide Despatches for their former service, as well as numerous Sub-Sector Dispatches for other services or branches of the Bureaucracy, since the character moves around a bit those are spread around a few sub-sectors.

Just curious - are you British? I've heard of Commonwealth countries doing something called "Mentioned in Dispatches," where a soldier's heroic actions were documented by a superior officer in an official report to the general staff, and that formed the basis for a decoration or augmentation of some sort. I don't know of an American equivalent, maybe the commendation medal.

 

[Sir Brad]

Aussie, being put in Dispatches is across all Services in the Commonwealth, it's how they provide evidence for the big Gongs Awards & Decorations), lots of Navies (to put the word out about a good sailor or junior officer if they can't push through a medal, or to say what you've done is worth more than the award you've bean given) and Merchant lines do the same as do Bureaucracies and Diplomatic Services where they don't have much in the way of lower order awards and decorations.

 

[rancke]

As I understand it, being mentioned in dispatches is sort of a pat on the head or a gold star unless followed up by an actual award. It doesn't affect your social level or the order in which you go in to dinner or any of that stuff.


Hans

 

[Carlobrand]

As I understand it, being mentioned in dispatches is sort of a pat on the head or a gold star unless followed up by an actual award. It doesn't affect your social level or the order in which you go in to dinner or any of that stuff.


Hans

Yes, but I understand it is required before you can be considered for some awards.

 

[Sir Brad]

It also gets Grunts & Swabbies invited to be guests at the officers mess on occasion, junior officers can also be made Guests of the President of the Mess so they can hear your war stories or you can tell them to other guests.

in the Civil Service being Gazetted or put in dispatches is how you swing choice assignments and get promoted.

 

[Ulsyus]

Depending on what assumptions you make, planetary titles from the equivalent of country squires to the equivalent of world emperors may run from Soc 10 to Soc 13 or they may every last one of them be squeezed into Soc 10.
Hans

This is a pretty good rule of thumb. If the character gets a Soc boost on the world, it may take him to 9 offworld, or maybe 10, but if he's knighted by the 3I then that'd be what he's treated like by Imperial nobles. If the Prime is an 3I Count, then that's what he'd be treated as offworld.

Depending on personal attitudes, 3I nobles may have little regard for planetary titles, but be well enough schooled to not behave poorly around their "poor cousins" if they want to avoid any incidents.

 

[rancke]

This is a pretty good rule of thumb.

It may be a good rule of thumb, but the rule itself is bad. There's something profoundly hinky about a social scale that divides the lower and middle classes into nine levels (1-9) and the interstellar nobiility into eight (11-18) and then squeezes planetary emperors, kings, archdukes, grand dukes/princes, princes, dukes, sovereign princes, marquesses, margraves, counts, viscounts, barons, baronets, knights, and squires into one level (10). It's a little better if you allow a bit of overlap and spread the planetary nobles and royals across four levels (10-13), but it's still pretty weird.

But be that as it may, the main point is that there are no Traveller rules to help a referee deal with planetary nobles. We're completely on our own.


Hans

 

[Ulsyus]

We are on our own, but at least there's no errata we have to wait for!!

Okay, how about this then: Soc refers to 3I level. It's possible for a planetary modifier to be applied, so that honours or titles granted on a world add points. Eg, Ernie the Esteemed is Soc 9 as far as the 3I is concerned: wealthy and with good contacts, but otherwise not of the nobility. On his homeworld he holds a Baronial title, so gets a +3 when there. Conversely, his accent puts him at a disadvantage when on another planet, Eloof. So there he gets a -2, dropping it to a 7. He might be wealthy and well heeled, but the sound of his voice is not the sort of thing one wants to hear in police society on Eloof.

 

[Carlobrand]

We are on our own, but at least there's no errata we have to wait for!! ...

YES! Freedom!

Seriously though, I can't for the life of me imagine coming up with rules that covered order of precedence for everyone from the chief of chiefs and his entourage in some TL1 Barbarian clan to the Fearless Leader of a 10-billion pop Stalinist world. Some of that, as was done in history, would depend on whether and to what degree the Imperium had any interest in extending respect and deference to any particular ruler or his court, which honestly is likely to depend on how much power that leader actually exercised, how friendly they were to Imperial interests, and how useful relations with that particular court might be to the Imperial establishment in that area. I think that's an area where there's little choice but for us to make our own case-by-case decisions.

 

[rancke]

Seriously though, I can't for the life of me imagine coming up with rules that covered order of precedence for everyone from the chief of chiefs and his entourage in some TL1 Barbarian clan to the Fearless Leader of a 10-billion pop Stalinist world.

Expressed in rungs (as in rungs on the social ladder (Emperor is rung 33)):

Barbarian clan leader (clan numbers thousands):

Base of thousands of subjects = rung 14
Sovereign ruler +1
TL1 -4

Final score: 11 (roughly equivalent to a planetary knight).

(Note: If world is interdicted there is no contact).


Leader of Pop level A world:

Base of 10-30 billion subjects = 23
Sovereign ruler +1
Average Stellar society = +2

Final score: 26 (Equivalent to a senior Imperial marquis)

Will most likely either have been given an Imperial marquisate or an Imperial countship (depending on the other worlds in the cluster).


Hans

 

[Ulsyus]

Carl, you should've known that Hans wouldn't be able to help himself once you threw down that gauntlet

 

[rancke]

Carl, you should've known that Hans wouldn't be able to help himself once you threw down that gauntlet

I just happened to have worked out a set of rules more than a decade ago. All I had to do was to apply them, which took me about five minutes.


Hans

 

[Ulsyus]

So why did you start off with the Emperor at 33? I'm just curious given for technology that's the point of the TL Singularity...

 

[rancke]

So why did you start off with the Emperor at 33? I'm just curious given for technology that's the point of the TL Singularity...

I didn't start with him at 33, I ended with him at 33. I started with the Traveller social scale that made Soc 10 the top of the middle class¹. I got into the early 20s for Imperial barons. That gave me the idea of making the social rungs twice the Traveller SL (24 for a baron, 26 for a marquis, etc.). That resulted in

Banneret                         21
(Senior banneret)                22)
Baron                            23
(Senior baron                    24)
Marquis                          25
(Senior marquis                  26)
Count                            27
(Senior count                    28)
Duke                             29       
(Senior duke                     30)
Archduke/Prince                  31
High Prince                      32       
Emperor                          33

I then added a couple more levels below that to get planetary nobility running from 11 to 20.

If I were to turn the rules into completely generic, Traveller-doesn't-have-anythyng-to-do-with-it, rules, I'd weed out several rungs and probably end up with interstellar emperors at Soc 25 or thereabouts.


Hans

¹ Which I've later been made aware is incorrect. Soc 10 is some form of nobility; the top of the middle class would be Soc 9. Of course, that's still a lot of levels to divide the lower and middle classes into.​

 

[pendragonman]

Where is Viscount?