Did Lucan ever have an official demise or final fate in the OTU?
Lucan's fate?
- Thread starter Blue Ghost
- Start date
Xerxeskingofking
SOC-13
Lucan IS STILL ALIVE. He is the gift that keeps on giving. :devil:
In the 1248 books:
Lucan's Imperium is taken over by Virus. A non-Suicider strain that likes/worships (a Hobbyist strain?) Lucan takes over. and Lucan either is forced or convinces Virus to install him as a figurehead. The two enter a partnership. This allows the Black Curtain to rise and exists directly to prevent hostile (i.e. others) Virus from destroying Lucan.
By the early 1150s, Lucan somehow convinces the Viral Entity to allow him to upload "Replicas" of his personality onto at least 3 (probably more) Dreadnoughts. Techniques from the Omicron project (the one that created Virus) were used to achieve this. These Replicas immediately fought the Viral Entity and completely destroyed it.
The remains of the Federation of Daibei gets pounded more more than usual by an odd Vampire Fleet using Imperial protocols and procedures between 1154 and 1157. In 1157, this fleet attacks the capital at Warinir. Along the way it is revealed that the ship is commanded by "Lucan". It demands Duke Craig surrender or the population will be exterminated. Duke Craig (who is sill alive) surrenders and goes aboard the Dreadnought Capital Prime where his execution is broadcast. The fleet destroys a few cities to show the flag, makes unreasonable production demands for the war effort, then leaves.
A "few years later". Lucan is dying. The techniques used to create the Replicas have been improved. Lucan, in order to rule the Imperium forever, uploads himself onto the Palace computers and then preserves his dying body.
The book makes a fuss that this upload is "the real Lucan himself" and not "merely a Replica". However it does not specifies what the distinction is.:frankie::frankie:
:coffeesip: So Lucan's body "dies" in the 1160s. But this is not the end of Lucan. There is more to his story which I will post later. Teaser: In a very real and twisted way he becomes the savior of Charted Space.
In the 1248 books:
Lucan's Imperium is taken over by Virus. A non-Suicider strain that likes/worships (a Hobbyist strain?) Lucan takes over. and Lucan either is forced or convinces Virus to install him as a figurehead. The two enter a partnership. This allows the Black Curtain to rise and exists directly to prevent hostile (i.e. others) Virus from destroying Lucan.
By the early 1150s, Lucan somehow convinces the Viral Entity to allow him to upload "Replicas" of his personality onto at least 3 (probably more) Dreadnoughts. Techniques from the Omicron project (the one that created Virus) were used to achieve this. These Replicas immediately fought the Viral Entity and completely destroyed it.
The remains of the Federation of Daibei gets pounded more more than usual by an odd Vampire Fleet using Imperial protocols and procedures between 1154 and 1157. In 1157, this fleet attacks the capital at Warinir. Along the way it is revealed that the ship is commanded by "Lucan". It demands Duke Craig surrender or the population will be exterminated. Duke Craig (who is sill alive) surrenders and goes aboard the Dreadnought Capital Prime where his execution is broadcast. The fleet destroys a few cities to show the flag, makes unreasonable production demands for the war effort, then leaves.
A "few years later". Lucan is dying. The techniques used to create the Replicas have been improved. Lucan, in order to rule the Imperium forever, uploads himself onto the Palace computers and then preserves his dying body.
The book makes a fuss that this upload is "the real Lucan himself" and not "merely a Replica". However it does not specifies what the distinction is.:frankie::frankie:
:coffeesip: So Lucan's body "dies" in the 1160s. But this is not the end of Lucan. There is more to his story which I will post later. Teaser: In a very real and twisted way he becomes the savior of Charted Space.
Please Note: If you can accept a Wafer Agent of the Imperium in the 400s an uploaded Emperor in the 1100s is not so hard to accept.
Timerover51
SOC-14 5K
Give clones and wafer technology, why should he die? For that matter, why should any high-level noble in the Imperium die?
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
Clones and wafer tech do not prevent death, they just produce a copy that thinks it is you, you are dead.
The proposed fate of Lucan in the original TNE timeline also had him being cyborged up, and possibly downloading personality/memory copies. In the DN vision of future events this Lucan would expand the black curtain and the RC would come into conflict with the Black Imperium.
The RC/Regency alliance coupled with Sandman progeny and Ithklur troops would survive long enough for the Star Vikings to commit their atrocity and destroy Lucan, the Black Imperium and all their K'kree cyborg shock troops.
Pure conjecture on my part - the Star Vikings would take a Hiver engineered Virus in all its TL17 glory to cause the AI systems within the Black Imperium to suicide - this would cause the deaths of trillions within the Black Imperium.
This would involve PC scale adventures rather than grand fleets that couldn't possibly coordinate their actions over the distances proposed in the 1248 version. Missions to introduce the Virus to x-boat communications hubs, missions to infiltrate BIN bases and introduce the Virus etc. The final desperate mission would be to infect the computer systems of Capital and cause the death of Lucan - echoing the ancient Roman Emperor themes this could be the result of his personal guard being turned against him.
The proposed fate of Lucan in the original TNE timeline also had him being cyborged up, and possibly downloading personality/memory copies. In the DN vision of future events this Lucan would expand the black curtain and the RC would come into conflict with the Black Imperium.
The RC/Regency alliance coupled with Sandman progeny and Ithklur troops would survive long enough for the Star Vikings to commit their atrocity and destroy Lucan, the Black Imperium and all their K'kree cyborg shock troops.
Pure conjecture on my part - the Star Vikings would take a Hiver engineered Virus in all its TL17 glory to cause the AI systems within the Black Imperium to suicide - this would cause the deaths of trillions within the Black Imperium.
This would involve PC scale adventures rather than grand fleets that couldn't possibly coordinate their actions over the distances proposed in the 1248 version. Missions to introduce the Virus to x-boat communications hubs, missions to infiltrate BIN bases and introduce the Virus etc. The final desperate mission would be to infect the computer systems of Capital and cause the death of Lucan - echoing the ancient Roman Emperor themes this could be the result of his personal guard being turned against him.
Wow. I opened one of these => :CoW:
I had no idea. I feel a fan fic piece coming on...
I had no idea. I feel a fan fic piece coming on...
Wow. I opened one of these => :CoW:
I had no idea. I feel a fan fic piece coming on...
1248 is pretty much canonical; it's referenced in T5.
So 1248 has the correct answer for Lucan's death.
In the OTU, going further in the 1248 books :
Lucan next shows up in 1208, when the restored Vilani Empire (yes, its a thing) decides to do the a bid to retake Capital which they feel will establish the Ziru Sirka once and for all (damn they are stubborn). With a huge fleet, they set off and losing ships here and there to Virus infections and combat.
The Vilani get to within 12 parsecs of Capital when their doom comes. On 303-1208, the Vilani are found by a Imperial squadron led by "Lucan himself" onboard the INS Invinvible. His holograms showed him to be about 60 years old, grey hair and dissolute living. As the Vilani prep for battle, a second fleet with "Lucan" aboard the dreadnought INS Inflexible appears with the same hologram and soon a third fleet with dreadnought INS Indomitable.
Despite being heavily outnumbered, the small group of Imperial ships destroys the entire Vilani with only one Vilani cruiser surviving to relate the information.
The text is written to imply that Lucan is a naval genius using Ender's Game level tactics. He could not run the Imperium as flesh and blood, but at least he can put up a fight. And It looks like Lucan can go Viral as well.
Lucan, the gift that keps on giving whether you like it or not:devil:
Lucan next shows up in 1208, when the restored Vilani Empire (yes, its a thing) decides to do the a bid to retake Capital which they feel will establish the Ziru Sirka once and for all (damn they are stubborn). With a huge fleet, they set off and losing ships here and there to Virus infections and combat.
The Vilani get to within 12 parsecs of Capital when their doom comes. On 303-1208, the Vilani are found by a Imperial squadron led by "Lucan himself" onboard the INS Invinvible. His holograms showed him to be about 60 years old, grey hair and dissolute living. As the Vilani prep for battle, a second fleet with "Lucan" aboard the dreadnought INS Inflexible appears with the same hologram and soon a third fleet with dreadnought INS Indomitable.
Despite being heavily outnumbered, the small group of Imperial ships destroys the entire Vilani with only one Vilani cruiser surviving to relate the information.
The text is written to imply that Lucan is a naval genius using Ender's Game level tactics. He could not run the Imperium as flesh and blood, but at least he can put up a fight. And It looks like Lucan can go Viral as well.
Lucan, the gift that keps on giving whether you like it or not:devil:
It appears that Out of the Darkness is in short supply. Nathan, I shall rely on your sage like lore and wisdom in all matters Lucan. More than just a dictator (or so it says on his one party "election" bumper stickers).
Wow, I had no idea
I seem to recall he had a son....
Wow, I had no idea
I seem to recall he had a son....
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
It can't be canonical anymore since the canonical changes to the Empress Wave make stuff in the 1248 timeline wrong.
What if Lucan was virus? o:
o:
I thing you are wrong on that part mike.
Yes, it is FACT the Empress Wave has been changed. Agent of he Imperium and the MgT Zhodani are both canon.
But aramis is correct also. It is FACT that 1248 is canon. It has not been decanonized. it is also FACT that 1248 is referenced as an official Era of History in the T5 book, separate and distinct from TNE. It is called TNNE (The New, New Era).
I am the biggest advocate for leaving 1248 alone, but I am a realist and know this is no longer possible. However, this is not to say 1248 should be decanonized in its entirety as invalid on the basis of the Empress Wave change. This is what you seem to do quite often, 1248 covers a swath of previously unknown historical events, starting the Solomani making peace treaties with Craig and Margaret in 1129 so they can finally subjugate the Vegans. The Wave is 6+ full sectors away from the Rim in that year in Knoellighz Sector (-4,3). (Click link: Empress Wave in 1129 )
Like throwing rocks in different spots in a pond and seeing the ripples interact, the big rocks we have are Virus and the Wave. Despite the changes to the Wave, the new ripples it causes have are too far away to impact the peace treaties. The trick is to examine the validity of a historical event based on the position of the event and the postion of the wave in the year of the event in question.
Many events will still happen. One has to do only a little investigation. Which I was going to point out in a future posts as 1248 history does get tricky going forward.
Now as to Lucan's "death". Let us assume he dies in 1160. The "ripples" caused by Virus (death, loss of communication, travel and civilization) have already gone thru Charted Space for 30 years. On the Spinward, Rimward, and Trailing sides of Celetron , Virus should be doing its usual destroying effects as normal. The Wave is still too far away (Click Link: Empress Wave in 1160)on the Coreward side to change or prevent Lucan from going Viral :rofl: (Sorry, couldn't help that :devil
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Aw shucks I guess I was being a little vague in #10 because of an upcoming historical event was going to show THE TRUE POWER OF THE DARK LUCAN.What if Lucan was virus?
o::rofl:
*sigh* I am a sick piece of wood :nonono:
*facepalm*
Ohhhhh...so, let me get this straight. What you're saying is ....
Seriously I don't know why the connection didn't register. My inner moron has resurfaced to normalize my life once more.
Anyone for tennis?
Ohhhhh...so, let me get this straight. What you're saying is ....
Seriously I don't know why the connection didn't register. My inner moron has resurfaced to normalize my life once more.
Anyone for tennis?
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
MJD is on record as stating his version of post TNE events doesn't mesh with changes to the Empress wave...
it is up to MWM to make sense of all this now
it is up to MWM to make sense of all this now
MJD is on record as stating his version of post TNE events doesn't mesh with changes to the Empress wave...
it is up to MWM to make sense of all this now
Since MJD isn't the property owner, MJD's opinion is irrelevant to its canonicity.
Note also: Marc has stated recently to the inner circle that each edition is essentially one historian's view from beyond the period covered.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
I don't mind that interpretation at all, I use it myself. but there has to be an underlying 'truth' to events. It would be nice if Marc's novels or the Galaxiad got rid of some of the contradictions, inconsistencies and flat out errors - apart from the ones that are meant to be there...
I don't mind that interpretation at all, I use it myself. but there has to be an underlying 'truth' to events. It would be nice if Marc's novels or the Galaxiad got rid of some of the contradictions, inconsistencies and flat out errors - apart from the ones that are meant to be there...
I have sort of gotten the impression that the point of the Galaxiad is that there is a "Dark Age" of some sort occurring sometime between 1248 and 1900, and that all material from earlier published versions of Traveller is just that: different historians' interpretations and reconstructions based on fragmentary historical records. Thus, the "true" version of the Universe history is up to the referee.
In essence, the Galaxiad is the way of reconciling the various versions of the History of Charted Space: technically none of them are entirely correct - the "true" version is up to the GM's preference (or to retcon as he/she sees fit).
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