Making a Jump 2 freighter profitable
- Thread starter BetterThanLife
- Start date
far-trader
SOC-14 10K
You're all stinking mind reading Zho spies!
I was toying with some concepts along this line last night. Now I find Bhoins jumping the gun, and kaladorn proposing part of my scheme
Oh well, maybe I'll still work on it all in the background and go ahead when I get it together. Until then...
...carry on!
p.s. I think a big part of the problem you had might be the book design. There could be errors, and certainly it is not optimal.
I did a quick custom design last night and checked the potential roughly and it loses about KCr40 per two-week trip over the year. Now if it were a standard design with the 20% discount the shortfall is closer to KCr10 per trip. Granted that's still a good chunk of change to make on spec but I think I'm close. Close enough to fine tune the design a little tonight and try my own hand at doing a little trade run like you did Bhoins. Maybe my positive attitude is all I need
I was toying with some concepts along this line last night. Now I find Bhoins jumping the gun, and kaladorn proposing part of my scheme
Oh well, maybe I'll still work on it all in the background and go ahead when I get it together. Until then...
...carry on!
p.s. I think a big part of the problem you had might be the book design. There could be errors, and certainly it is not optimal.
I did a quick custom design last night and checked the potential roughly and it loses about KCr40 per two-week trip over the year. Now if it were a standard design with the 20% discount the shortfall is closer to KCr10 per trip. Granted that's still a good chunk of change to make on spec but I think I'm close. Close enough to fine tune the design a little tonight and try my own hand at doing a little trade run like you did Bhoins. Maybe my positive attitude is all I need
BetterThanLife
SOC-14 1K
what routes did you run? </font>[/QUOTE]It wasn't much of a route. I was running between RHYLANOR and PORZOLO. I figured if I stuck to two High Pop, Class A Starports to get me started I should be able to build up enough capital to be able to afford a loss. But I couldn't get even that to make money. Which is how I managed to keep things full. A Free Trader would have made it but they can run without spec.
Looking further at how this thing actually works. (First time messing with it since I got fed up with the CT rules way back when, when there was absolutely no rhyme or reason to what you could buy where, and you only got one roll.
I can see how you can make money, but only if you are very lucky or have lots more cash lying about and get lucky enough to get the right commodity roll on one of your rolls each month.
I always regarded the fees for transport in CT or T20 to be the minimum anyone could expect to pay.
It made sense to me that the Imperium may enforce a min of 10kcr/jump high, 1kcr lo-berth etc, as this would stimulate trade and commerce. A max fee per jump would be unenforcable for a start and would stifle trade. (The rates seem to regular not to have some governmental influence on them).
If people were desperate to leave a planet (natural disaster) ship captains could make up any price. Trafficking goods to an Amber zoned world might be double, etc. IMHO the laws of supply and demand come over any arbitrary game system, broken or not. And they add lots of juicy adventure hooks too.
It made sense to me that the Imperium may enforce a min of 10kcr/jump high, 1kcr lo-berth etc, as this would stimulate trade and commerce. A max fee per jump would be unenforcable for a start and would stifle trade. (The rates seem to regular not to have some governmental influence on them).
If people were desperate to leave a planet (natural disaster) ship captains could make up any price. Trafficking goods to an Amber zoned world might be double, etc. IMHO the laws of supply and demand come over any arbitrary game system, broken or not. And they add lots of juicy adventure hooks too.
BetterThanLife
SOC-14 1K
CT is the easiest to lose money on because you only get one roll on the commodity table per week. LBB7 I never had so I can't tell you what changed in CT with LBB7. (Matter of fact I never saw it in stores.)
MT I still, with the Errata in my hands, can't figure out how to read the tables, however because the "Standard Ships" are all built at TLF and the jump fuel requirements is lower for higher jump ships, the higher jump ships are closer to breaking even without using spec.
I never messed with TNE or T4 but would think without an Imperium and little trade you could charge quite a bit more than the standard fares.
GT, while I never messed with it, from all reports is a Per Parsec model not a Per Jump model and apparently works.
Which leaves T20, which I have been assured that the Trade and Spec rules actually work and you can make money with a higher jump ship. I can't seem to make it work though.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
I think ther should be a standard hull for the 200t Far Trader in CT.Originally posted by far-trader:
I did a quick custom design last night and checked the potential roughly and it loses about KCr40 per two-week trip over the year. Now if it were a standard design with the 20% discount the shortfall is closer to KCr10 per trip. Granted that's still a good chunk of change to make on spec but I think I'm close. Close enough to fine tune the design a little tonight and try my own hand at doing a little trade run like you did Bhoins. Maybe my positive attitude is all I need
25t drive compartment, 175t main compartment, cost 8MCr, time to build 11 months.
If it is also a standard design then it qualifies for a further 10% discount.
I think I can build (using LBB2) a jump 2, maneuver 1 Far Trader for MCr52.83 with no passenger staterooms, low berths, or air/raft. 84t of cargo hold.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
If you haven't seen LBB7 or MegaTraveller before then the following skill modifiers may be of use in the CT economic system:
Admin +1 DM per skill level on the middle passengers table;
Liaison +1 DM per skill level on the minor cargos table;
Steward +1 DM per skill level on the high passengers table;
Streetwise +1 DM per skill level on the low passengers table;
Admin +1 DM per skill level on the middle passengers table;
Liaison +1 DM per skill level on the minor cargos table;
Steward +1 DM per skill level on the high passengers table;
Streetwise +1 DM per skill level on the low passengers table;
BetterThanLife
SOC-14 1K
Those kinds of things are present in the T20 rules. Problem is, with the economic rules, as written, travelling full doesn't help, you still can't make your overhead on the J2+ ships.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
Would squeezing in an extra jump per month help, or would there still be a shortfall?
Must go and check the numbers.
Must go and check the numbers.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
Nope, still won't work.
A per parsec charge for cargo fits my numbers beautifully though
A per parsec charge for cargo fits my numbers beautifully though
BetterThanLife
SOC-14 1K
I think ther should be a standard hull for the 200t Far Trader in CT.Originally posted by Sigg Oddra:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by far-trader:
I did a quick custom design last night and checked the potential roughly and it loses about KCr40 per two-week trip over the year. Now if it were a standard design with the 20% discount the shortfall is closer to KCr10 per trip. Granted that's still a good chunk of change to make on spec but I think I'm close. Close enough to fine tune the design a little tonight and try my own hand at doing a little trade run like you did Bhoins. Maybe my positive attitude is all I need
25t drive compartment, 175t main compartment, cost 8MCr, time to build 11 months.
If it is also a standard design then it qualifies for a further 10% discount.
I think I can build (using LBB2) a jump 2, maneuver 1 Far Trader for MCr52.83 with no passenger staterooms, low berths, or air/raft. 84t of cargo hold. </font>[/QUOTE]Ton for ton, Low berths are actually a good thing to carry as they pay Cr1800/ton, as long as you don't have so many that you can't keep them full. High Passengers if you carry them in groups of 8 and double bunk your steward, net about Cr1258 per passenger per ton. Mid Passengers net (Provided they aren't replacing High Passengers so you aren't carrying an idle steward.) Cr1500 per ton. If they are replacing High Passengers and you aren't firing a Steward then they only net Cr788 per ton, which is better than dead heading but not up to even freight standards. However if you are carrying a mix of high passengers and mid passengers, with no more than 50% of your passengers being Mid passengers that are replacing High Passengers then you are still carrying passengers at more than Cr1024 per ton. So while having nice big cargo holds might ba a nice idea, a small amount of passengers, is a better idea. (* High Passenger Staterooms, unless you happen to pretty much stick to High Pop Worlds, and 12-16 Low passengers would be a good part of your design. (Though it still won't break even on higher jump ships.)
The Standard design, LBB2, Far Trader is only MCr59.6. (And it can't make its overhead under standard LBB2 trade rules running full loads.) Losing passengers for cargo doesn't help, because you lose money. (If you steward is also your medic or you double bunk your steward and medic or engineer, you can carry 7 High passengers, at about Cr1200 per ton and you can usually manage to carry a full load of passengers.) The same with your 4 low passengers, you can keep 4 low berths full.
BetterThanLife
SOC-14 1K
in CT the big-ticket speculation transactions take place between industrial, rich, and poor worlds, so the trick is to include those sorts of worlds in the run. if that relationship exists in the ruleset you're using then try glisten-aki-sorel, or collace-talos-trexalon. </font>[/QUOTE]Actually travelling between two High Pop, Rich Worlds overall works better. (Matter of fact, owning a Wharehouse on the High Port, or even at the Low Port, Set up on a High Pop, Rich World, with the Broker Skill, provided your overhead for the wharehouse is much cheaper than a Starship, and it should be, and buying one week and selling the next will make you rich in a hurry, especially since you aren't sitting a week in jump space a week. You should be able to get 3-4 transactions a month. You could, of course, supplement your income by acting as a Broker for Starships, or vice versa. However the game is called Traveller, it is not supposed to be a game about Commodities Brokers at the exchange. Though you could always try to corner the market in Frozen Orange Juice Concentrate.
BetterThanLife
SOC-14 1K
Do the same with passengers and it is profitable to carry them as well. (If you only carry freight per Parsec, then J2+ ships won't carry passengers.)Originally posted by Sigg Oddra:
Nope, still won't work.
A per parsec charge for cargo fits my numbers beautifully though
BetterThanLife
SOC-14 1K
I have to assume that the Leviathan, (CT Adventure 4) and the Lorimar (EA4) are loss leaders for major corporations to do market research and in no way are expected, in and of themselves, to make a profit.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
I left out the passenger staterooms because I wanted to see what a pure cargo carrier could do.
Without per parsec cargo it won't work.
The next question is what is the ideal amount of passenger accomodation?
I'd go for eight low berths and seven passenger staterooms.
Employ a steward/medic, and double bunk the crew to free up another stateroom if the extra passenger is found.
As long as someone in the crew has streetwise, admin, and steward skill for your steward you should find the passengers.
You still can't pay you're overheads though
Without per parsec cargo it won't work.
The next question is what is the ideal amount of passenger accomodation?
I'd go for eight low berths and seven passenger staterooms.
Employ a steward/medic, and double bunk the crew to free up another stateroom if the extra passenger is found.
As long as someone in the crew has streetwise, admin, and steward skill for your steward
you should find the passengers.You still can't pay you're overheads though
BetterThanLife
SOC-14 1K
8 Passengers, it makes your Steward cheaper. (And you can normally find, at least (unless you stick to low pop worlds), 4 High Passengers and 4 Mid Passengers which is still better than carrying cargo.
Funny that is what I have been saying about Traveller Economics for 25 years.
Employ a steward/medic, and double bunk the crew to free up another stateroom if the extra passenger is found.
As long as someone in the crew has streetwise, admin, and steward skill for your steward
You still can't pay you're overheads though
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
There's always piracy
Bit difficult to include it in the business plan though
Bit difficult to include it in the business plan though
BetterThanLife
SOC-14 1K
That of course depends on how much of a gearhead and how into Naval design the Referee is. If you take the typical Subsector, assign a CruRon or a BatRon plus escorts, to each Naval base, and a Task Force to the Subsector Capital Naval Base, throw in a Colonial and/or reserve fleet. Move them all about to conduct training, show the flag, and perform other routine missions and Piracy virtually goes away for some reason.Originally posted by Sigg Oddra:
There's always piracy
Bit difficult to include it in the business plan though
