They are major players in Canon, for that matter--they are the dominant players in the Chinese Arm, after all. I think that they--and their Korean allies--were sorely underdeveloped simply because of the North American/European focus of the 2300AD[/i} designers. Who should still be thanked for the game, of course.
Manchuria
- Thread starter caj
- Start date
Manchuria, Tier 2 power, with a culture that's no longer as distinct as they like to think. But the same holds true of practically every Earth-bound nation. In terms of sheer number of colonial holdings, now either #1 or #2. (2320AD) In large part becuase they are not as senstive to public opinion in the means they use to keep their colonies. But then again, neither are the French. 
Colin, 2320AD writer
127000 words and counting
Colin, 2320AD writer
127000 words and counting
In terms of sheer number of colonial holdings, now either #1 or #2. (2320AD)
Interesting. The development of existing colonies or moving on to new territories?
In large part becuase they are not as senstive to public opinion in the means they use to keep their colonies. But then again, neither are the French.
Elysian Revolutionary Wars? Oh, I like.
Interesting. The development of existing colonies or moving on to new territories?
In large part becuase they are not as senstive to public opinion in the means they use to keep their colonies. But then again, neither are the French.
Elysian Revolutionary Wars? Oh, I like.
In fact, France and Manchuria are tied, with 7 apiece. Revolutionary Wars? In most cases more like battles, and one-sided ones at that. Outposts are too vulnerable to successfully rebel against an overlord that's willing to cut life support...
Colin, 2320AD writer
NOW it's all coming together.
Colin, 2320AD writer
NOW it's all coming together.
Hence the TCS rule that any airless world surrenders then faced with armed starships.
I have a TCS conversion around, and this rule had things interesting. Combatants could pick off each others outposts fairly easily.
Of course, canon gives us such an action, in which a Manchu outpost was dug in and successfully resisted a Suffren and a CW company.
Bryn
I have a TCS conversion around, and this rule had things interesting. Combatants could pick off each others outposts fairly easily.
Of course, canon gives us such an action, in which a Manchu outpost was dug in and successfully resisted a Suffren and a CW company.
Bryn
This may be a hair off-topic, but I seem to recall reading <i>somewhere</i> that the Manchurians liked the rest of the world to but out of their business along the Manchurian Arm, but in light of the Melbourne Accords (to which, IMTU, they aren't a party) they can only do so much.
So, rather, the Manchurians offer huge subsidies to smaller countries (Greece, Turkey, the Philippines) to build outposts on Chengdu/Epsilon Indi in exchange for agreeing to build no other settlements along the Manchurian Arm. This makes Chengdu, IMTU, a very metropolitan planet with a great deal of growth potential, and a lot of third-tier political intrigue.
I once had my characters involved in an effort to foil a blackmail attempt against a candidate standing in a Greek parliamentarian by-election (which, due to political jerrymandering, was a district which stretched from suburban Athens to deep space).
So, rather, the Manchurians offer huge subsidies to smaller countries (Greece, Turkey, the Philippines) to build outposts on Chengdu/Epsilon Indi in exchange for agreeing to build no other settlements along the Manchurian Arm. This makes Chengdu, IMTU, a very metropolitan planet with a great deal of growth potential, and a lot of third-tier political intrigue.
I once had my characters involved in an effort to foil a blackmail attempt against a candidate standing in a Greek parliamentarian by-election (which, due to political jerrymandering, was a district which stretched from suburban Athens to deep space).
Straybow
SOC-14 1K
I'm not into 2300 at all, but I am into population and food production figures. The bulk of China's current food production is the major river valleys, where rice is double-cropped (and even triple-cropped in some areas on good years). It is all intensive manual methods, supporting roughly 2500/mi². But rice ag is one of the few products for which hand methods are efficient.
The problem with Chinese agriculture overall (and indeed, most of the world including parts of Europe) is the woefully inefficient hand and animal labor which supports no more than 1000/mi².
By comparison, mechanized farming in the US wheat and corn belt supports at least 4000/mi². In general, most putative nations you might wish to draw up for 2300 can easily support 4x the current population levels with late 20th c tech mechanized farming including chemical fertilizers and pesticides. This doesn't include any expansion of arable land, which can also account for increase in population supported.
Unfortunately, the area described for Manchuria is not one in which significant increase in arable land is possible. Tibet and the western provinces simply don't have anywhere to expand due to altitude and salt content. North of Manchuria proper might have arable lands if post-nuke climate changes were favorable. Cis/trans-Altai has lush grazing lands, but altitude again prevents significant land crops.
Greenhousing can increase productivity/mi² by a factor of 4 or more at higher labor/unit, and hydroponics can redouble productivity or more but still can't lower labor to mech land farming levels. Both require enormous initial investment compared to dry or irrigated farming but can theoretically support almost any population.
The problem with Chinese agriculture overall (and indeed, most of the world including parts of Europe) is the woefully inefficient hand and animal labor which supports no more than 1000/mi².
By comparison, mechanized farming in the US wheat and corn belt supports at least 4000/mi². In general, most putative nations you might wish to draw up for 2300 can easily support 4x the current population levels with late 20th c tech mechanized farming including chemical fertilizers and pesticides. This doesn't include any expansion of arable land, which can also account for increase in population supported.
Unfortunately, the area described for Manchuria is not one in which significant increase in arable land is possible. Tibet and the western provinces simply don't have anywhere to expand due to altitude and salt content. North of Manchuria proper might have arable lands if post-nuke climate changes were favorable. Cis/trans-Altai has lush grazing lands, but altitude again prevents significant land crops.
Greenhousing can increase productivity/mi² by a factor of 4 or more at higher labor/unit, and hydroponics can redouble productivity or more but still can't lower labor to mech land farming levels. Both require enormous initial investment compared to dry or irrigated farming but can theoretically support almost any population.
I also think that Serenity has it right the major players will be the US and CHina. Although to keep canon we could say that the players are France, the UK, the US, and Manchuria (China). I have always had a problem with the fragmenting of China into three states. I don't see that happening.
