MGT and MT

[zonk]

I've seen many comparisons between CT and MGT here but what about MT and MGT? Just as MGT is a follow on to CT so is/was MT. How well does the MT material work with MGT?

Perhaps this hasn't been looked at because MT was the Rebellion era and, while more popular than TNE, not as popular? Or is it because the Rebellion era material isn't as useful in a general way as the CT material was/is?

In character creation MT increased the skill numbers/levels. Is MGT closer to MT or does it find a middle ground?

MT ships had problems I believe with poor editing, and maybe this question should go in the Highguard topic but as long as I'm here..., but regardless of the editing problems how do the MGT ships compare to the MT ships?

 

[aramis]

MGT: More skills, but fewer total levels, not a whole lot fewer tho. Different task label sequence, more restrictive task formation.

Note that MT Tasks, combat, and damage systems can be directly dropped in to MGT, or MGT Characters pretty easily dropped into an otherwise MT game.

 

[kafka47]

MT was a highly detailed game that came out 10yrs of playtesting of CT. It had a vast canvas that players could build from everything that went on before...except if they wanted to make a trip to Capital and meet the Emperor. You could not really get away from the OTU unless you wanted to carve up a corner to yourself.

Whereas, MGT, is a bare bones RPG...in many ways it is like T4, in that it presents nice simple rules to build a universe upon. So far all of Mongoose's releases have been cautiously touching OTU. Pretty well, you could almost call it generic...Spinward Marches and a few asides remind you that you are in the OTU.

To Mongoose's credit there have been discussions about a MT and FFW supplement to deal with those big battle questions and perhaps High Politics campaigns.

 

[zonk]

To Mongoose's credit there have been discussions about a MT and FFW supplement to deal with those big battle questions and perhaps High Politics campaigns.

That sounds interesting.
Perhaps it's only me but MGT, to this point at least, is just like CT was at this point.

Mercenary and High Guard didn't require the OTU. CT at that point was still a 'generic' game. Oh we had some supplements but the massive buildup hadn't occurred yet.

Do you think we will see the same thing with MGT? More and more of the OTU, but in MGT terms? Very similar to GT but with mechanics closer to the CT/MT?

And Aramis sorta makes the point implicitly I was dancing around. MGT and MT are, at least from my viewpoint, very similar.

I've not examined the two task systems (MGT and MT) but how different are they?

I'm definitely hoping that Highguard is much superior to MT's ship rules. I've not waded through MT but everything I read here at COTI says the ship rules had severe problems with eratta or lack thereof.

And I think MGT is going to address a lot of SF things that MT (and Traveller in all it's incarnations) never did.

 

[Jamus]

And Aramis sorta makes the point implicitly I was dancing around. MGT and MT are, at least from my viewpoint, very similar.

similar as any two siblings can be.

 

[zonk]

similar as any two siblings can be.

But are they genetic twins with only societal changes or paternal twins who look a little alike but are really different?

 

[aramis]

But are they genetic twins with only societal changes or paternal twins who look a little alike but are really different?

They are not twins, but cousins.

MT and 2300 are fraternal twins
DGP-CT and MT are identical Twins raised apart
TNE is a Sibling
T4 is a half-sibling
MGT is a 1st cousin...

MT, DGP-CT, 2300, and TNE all use the same 5 steps, with fairly decent consistency. (Basically, the odds for a Task of X difficulty with median stat and skill 1 (CT/MT/2300) or 2 (TNE/T4) are roughly comparable, provided X is Formidible or less.)

MGT doesn't use the same labels across the spectrum, and the ones present are not evenly seeded, so the older distribution fails to correlate well.

It is 2d6+StatMod+SkillLevel+DiffMod for 8+, with 7 labeled steps instead of 5 or 6.

 

[Jamus]

They are not twins, but cousins.

MT and 2300 are fraternal twins
DGP-CT and MT are identical Twins raised apart
TNE is a Sibling
T4 is a half-sibling
MGT is a 1st cousin...

MT, DGP-CT, 2300, and TNE all use the same 5 steps, with fairly decent consistency. (Basically, the odds for a Task of X difficulty with median stat and skill 1 (CT/MT/2300) or 2 (TNE/T4) are roughly comparable, provided X is Formidible or less.)

MGT doesn't use the same labels across the spectrum, and the ones present are not evenly seeded, so the older distribution fails to correlate well.

It is 2d6+StatMod+SkillLevel+DiffMod for 8+, with 7 labeled steps instead of 5 or 6.

you believe that TnE is closer to CT than MgT is despite the d10 or d20 rules system? TnE is at best a cousin not a sibling.

Really just looking at your list I am stunned. MgT not as closely related to MT or CT as T4? You do know the die rolling conventions used in T4 no? rolling multiple dice and even rolling half dice to get under a number...

 

[iaincoleman]

Mongoose Traveller is what Megatraveller should have been.

 

[kafka47]

Mongoose Traveller is what Megatraveller should have been.

THere was talk early on the default setting was going to be the Rebellion Era, as Marc wanted to leave his stamp upon it. However, that idea was canned for a more or less CT era when you can have MT events happening but on a much smaller scale.

I do predict that MGT is going to do a two prong approach Generic Supplements with OTU Supplements for some time into the distant future (their licence is for 10yrs). As they want to appeal to the hardcore CT fans that never bought into the Imperial Campaign because their expertise (other than MJD) does not lie there. They are also creating a template for all their other SFRPGs to follow. However, they do have to appeal to us gognards who like the Imperial Campaign...so I suspect a few bones will be tossed our way such as the Weisman-MJD collaboration. Also, it also depends what direction Marc wants to go after T5...maybe...T5 will spawn the Official Traveller Universe supplements...that we all long for...however, looking at what came out T4...I would be very, very wary of a repeat of that debacle that in no way resembled the Imperial Campaign as I thought of it.

 

[aramis]

you believe that TnE is closer to CT than MgT is despite the d10 or d20 rules system? TnE is at best a cousin not a sibling.

Really just looking at your list I am stunned. MgT not as closely related to MT or CT as T4? You do know the die rolling conventions used in T4 no? rolling multiple dice and even rolling half dice to get under a number...

You're misinterpreting a label. DGP-CT is a particular DGP add-on, and was not part of CT proper. CT DOES NOT HAVE A TASK SYSTEM. Every skill has its own resolution system suggestions, and several adventures have very different methods for skills.

MGT's task system is as close to CT proper as the DGP-CT Task system... and in both cases, that's quite a leap... but MGT's task system is further afield than TNE's, by simple dint of incompatible task labels making MGT not directly useful with tasks from other editions. In short, it's a wholly separate branch of the tree.

the DGP tasks for CT became the MT task system directly, and with a change in dice use, 1d10 instead of 2d6, the 2300 Task system. Tasks from any of the three are useable in any of the three without changes.

TNE tasks have the same difficulties, and substantially the same skills, but a different system for time. The mechanics of resolution are different, but the difficulty vs baseline skills are comparable success levels. (Difficult Tasks being 7- on 1d20 is 35%, vs 9+ in DGP-CT and MT (10/36=27%), and 8+ =30% in 2300. In T4, that's 4d for 9-, about 30%.

DGP-CT, MT, and 2300 can use Stat+Skill, Skill+Skill, or Stat+Stat; TNE, T4, and MGT can not by the book.

a MGT Difficult is an expected 9+ as well... but the labels don't line up.

MGT's levels (DM for the 8+ roll) {Effective Roll Needed} {Adjusted for stat7 and skill 1}:
Simple (+6) {2+} {2+}
Easy (+4) {4+} {3+}
Routine (+2) {6+} {5+}
Average (+0) {8+} {7+}
Difficult (-2) {10+} {9+}
Very Difficult (-4) {12+} {11+}
Formidable (-6) {14+} {13+}

Note that different time is an order of magnitutde change for a DM±1 in MGT. This means that Mr. Av Stat, skill 1 can just make a formidable in MGT

Vs DGP-CT (Roll needed) {With Stat 7 or skill 1 in both components}{Extra Time TN}
Simple (3+) {3+ due to minimum nat 3 to succeed} {3+}
Routine (7+) {5+} {3+}
Difficult (11+) {9+} {5+}
Formidable (15+) {13+} {9+}
Impossible (19+) {17+} {13+}

TNE is a multiplier system with a 1d20 roll... the expected stat 6 skill 2
Simple x4 {19-, as a 20 fails, or 32-, depending on GM interp.}
Routine x2 {16-}
Difficut x1 {8-}
Formidable x1/2 {4-}
Impossible x1/4 {2-}
Extra time shifts one level easier.

TNE works, aside from the means of calculation, very much like the DGP task system. MGT doesn't. Being unskilled is far more a penalty under DGP-CT, MT, 2300, or TNE than it is under MGT. Extra time is far more powerful under DGP-CT, MT, 2300, or TNE than it is under MGT.

Not all DGP-CT, MT, nor 2300 tasks can be exported to TNE, T4 nor MGT, since the latter require 1 stat and 1 skill.

 

[Hemdian]

Do you think we will see the same thing with MGT? More and more of the OTU, but in MGT terms? Very similar to GT but with mechanics closer to the CT/MT?

Anything's possible but currently I doubt it. I was at a seminar run by Mongoose at Gencon UK earlier this year where they spelt out their current thinking about MGT's future.

Its the rule system that thay are interested in. They want a generic system that will support Babylon 5, Judge Dread, Strontium Dog, and anything else they decide to do. To this end they "want to drive a wedge between the OTU and the rule system" (that's a direct quote), and to them OTU stands for Original Traveller Universe rather than Official Traveller Universe.

IMHO support for the OTU is something they feel they are required to do to start with until the alternative backgrounds come on line, rather than a genuine desire to build and grow the OTU legacy. I may be wrong on that but that's my interpretation.

 

[aramis]

For what it's worth, I got the same impression as Hemidan did about their view on the OTU.

 

[Allensh]

I agree as well...and I have no real issue with the idea of the OTU being only one of the settings designed for use with the rules. or with the rules being expanded to cover things that the earlier versions did not.

Allen

 

[rust]

Same with me. I never used the OTU anyway, and a choice of additional
ideas (technology, races, whatever) from other settings can only be help-
ful for the development of my own setting.

 

[Echo]

To be honest, I'm not that much interested in the OTU - beyond it being a useful narrative devise for galaxy spanning space adventures. As a developed setting, I wouldn't regard it as more interesting than literature settings like Dune's Imperium or Asimov's Foundation (or a load of other books). To me, the Imperium is just like Forgotten Realms or Dragonlance is for D&D, or Glorantha for RuneQuest. Some people love 'em, but they don't really ethuse me that much, as they're really just a second (or third generation) fantasy (sci-fi) creation, based, largely generically, upon the works of other keynote sci-fi or fantasy writers.

I am much more interested in the systems used in the game though, to develop homebrews or latched onto settings that I do get enthused about though, like the 2000AD titles for example.

 

[Hemdian]

Assuming I'm right about Mongoose then this reopens the debate about whether Traveller is the rules or the setting. For example, is playing a game with the Babylon5 setting and the MGT rules a game of Babylon 5 or a game of Traveller? Are people who play GT playing GURPS or Traveller?

Regardless, it would be disappointing for many (myself included) if Mongoose didn't strongly support the OTU setting while at the same time maintaining limitations on 3rd party development. Not that I have a problem with ATUs but for all its shortcomings I like the OTU setting ... its why I play Traveller.

 

[rust]

Regardless, it would be disappointing for many (myself included) if Mongoose didn't strongly support the OTU setting while at the same time maintaining limitations on 3rd party development.

I also very much hope that Mongoose will continue to support the OTU, if
only because it is one of the most detailed science fiction settings ever cre-
ated, an excellent background universe for those who do not want to spend
the time necessary to create their own one, and a very good source of ideas
for those who do.

The - in my opinion - very good Spinward Marches book seems to indicate
that Mongoose will not neglect the OTU while at the same time opening up
Traveller for other, more diverse settings, including perhaps more self-made
ones by providing more "generic tool boxes".

I welcome this also because, in my recent experience, many newcomers to
Traveller are almost afraid of the OTU: Too big, too many informations, too
difficult to "learn the ropes" and too easy to introduce something into a cam-
paign that is later contradicted by official sources.

 

[Allensh]

Assuming I'm right about Mongoose then this reopens the debate about whether Traveller is the rules or the setting. For example, is playing a game with the Babylon5 setting and the MGT rules a game of Babylon 5 or a game of Traveller? Are people who play GT playing GURPS or Traveller?

Regardless, it would be disappointing for many (myself included) if Mongoose didn't strongly support the OTU setting while at the same time maintaining limitations on 3rd party development. Not that I have a problem with ATUs but for all its shortcomings I like the OTU setting ... its why I play Traveller.

I also like the OTU (as I do run games in it). My personal feeling (and this is just me) is that Traveller the rules system needs to be separate from the setting. The game should be expanded to cover many different styles of science-fiction. So, my feeling is that when using the Traveller rules to play Babylon 5, you are playing a "Traveller Babylon 5" game. The original promise of Traveller seemed to be that you could play any sci-fi setting with it but it got strongly associated with the OTU and was never taken beyond that...I look forward to seeing Mongoose do that now.

I'm sure the OTU will persist although I am less sure that we'll see the timeline officially advanced beyond 1105.

Allen

 

[Klaus]

I welcome this also because, in my recent experience, many newcomers to
Traveller are almost afraid of the OTU: Too big, too many informations, too
difficult to "learn the ropes" and too easy to introduce something into a cam-
paign that is later contradicted by official sources.

That's my experience also. When running an OTU game I find I have to constantly tell players, "well, according to the setting, you can't do that". And that's not good. Modern players have different expectations out of a sci fi setting than the OTU supplies.

It's no the basic precepts, which is neo-feudal politics, 1 week jump, and no FTL comms. They're easy to spell out. It's all the other stuff that came out of expressions of the rules, like house sized computers and 'no nanotech'. Since there is a very vocal minority of old timers that cannot abide changes from the CT era setting, it becomes difficult modernise or reform the Original Traveller Setting.

Personally, I think Mongoose should go ahead and update the OTU for modern expectations from its core market. It's already doing that somewhat in subtle ways by introducing new gear and functionality in the main books (magrails notwithstanding ), and given that (hopefully) a lot of new OTU material will come out of the Foreven license, it seems the Classic setting is getting the 'freeing up' it deserves.