military budgets

[Condottiere]

Personally, I think a lot of numbers appeared by magic.

However, measurement could be by how much man (robot) hours are required to prep spaceships, or for their annual exam.

 

[aramis]

Could you help me translate to accounting style or maybe English? Median income 400 per hour or? What is kCrL8?

M_ _ _ _ = Milieux _ _ _ _. The numbers are the Imperial Year of the timeline start point. Published millieux include M0 (T4), M50 (The supplements for M0 tend to be set 50 years later), M980 (Gateway for T20), M1100 (CT & MGT), M1115 (Rebellion), M1120 (MT Hard Times), M1200 (TTNE), M1248 (MJD's sequel setting to TNE)

Cr = Credits. Cr100 is 100 Credits
CrL = Credits, Local. There is a table for M1100 which gives relative values of local credits in
CrI or CrImp = Credits, Imperial (TL15 Starport A in M1100/1200/1250,
The prefixes K or k are thousands (10^3), M is Mega/Million (10^6), G or B for Giga/Billion (10^9), T for Terra or Trillion (10^12)... So KCrL500 is 500,000 local credits.

kCrL8 is 8000 credits in local currency.

Marc used CrL4 that is, four local credits, per hour as a baseline unskilled labor.
And in MT, that's sufficient for Soc 2 upkeep.... plus some. Cr250 per Soc is the upkeep standard in MT.
Upkeep expenses (food, shelter) are costed in Local Credits in some editions..

 

[Drew]

In short, even with overestimating a personnel count and budget by an order of magnitude, it still doesn't make a dent in the naval budget.

I think it's safe to say that personnel costs are "included".

Moreover, unless there's an obvious correction to make, I think the breakdown in budget -- the budget allocations -- in general are correct. We can argue over how big the budget is, but I think we're okay assuming the allocations are fair enough.

The problem is the salary provided on page 19 of Book 4 of Mercenary or elsewhere in the Traveller universe are not compatible to level of technology or basically all volunteer force. I estimate the impact is by a factor of 800%. A private's salary is listed at 300 credits; however, with the current salary of a PV1 in the US Armed Forces it is $1695@month or $20,340. The British equivalent is $27,133 at an exchange rate of $1.33 per pound. This totally changes the dollars spent on the big scale. To be fair to GDW, unless you subscribed to the Military/Army/Navy/Air Force Times during the period you wouldn't have access to actual salary. For example, in 1976 when I was in OCS, I got $452 before taxes; now it is
$2610@month or nearly a 500% increase in 46 years. I have attached the current comparisons between British/American and American in 1976.

Considering where the US was basically a Tech 7 to today's Tech 8/9 level you could extrapolate a correlation between the 1976 Tech Level to Tech Level of A or beyond. Thoughts?

 

[Timerover51]

It is called inflation. Per the Bureau of Labor Statistics Consumer Price Index Inflation Calculator which can be found at the included link, $1 in January of 1977 is equal in buying power to $4.81 in January of 2022.

CPI Inflation Calculator

data.bls.gov

 

[Drew]

It is called inflation. Per the Bureau of Labor Statistics Consumer Price Index Inflation Calculator which can be found at the included link, $1 in January of 1977 is equal in buying power to $4.81 in January of 2022.

CPI Inflation Calculator

data.bls.gov

This is how much troops were paid in every major American war

See how much American troops made in each conflict, both in their own currency and adjusted for inflation.

www.wearethemighty.com

Here is the adjusted amounts by major conflict. I would partially agree, but the Volunteer Army is competing against civilian marketplace wages/salary.

 

[Drew]

This is how much troops were paid in every major American war

See how much American troops made in each conflict, both in their own currency and adjusted for inflation.

www.wearethemighty.com

Here is the adjusted amounts by major conflict. I would partially agree, but the Volunteer Army is competing against civilian marketplace wages/salary.

Here is listing of Pay raises and inflation.

 

[aramis]

The problem is the salary provided on page 19 of Book 4 of Mercenary or elsewhere in the Traveller universe are not compatible to level of technology or basically all volunteer force. I estimate the impact is by a factor of 800%. A private's salary is listed at 300 credits; however, with the current salary of a PV1 in the US Armed Forces it is $1695@month or $20,340. The British equivalent is $27,133 at an exchange rate of $1.33 per pound. This totally changes the dollars spent on the big scale. To be fair to GDW, unless you subscribed to the Military/Army/Navy/Air Force Times during the period you wouldn't have access to actual salary. For example, in 1976 when I was in OCS, I got $452 before taxes; now it is
$2610@month or nearly a 500% increase in 46 years. I have attached the current comparisons between British/American and American in 1976.

Considering where the US was basically a Tech 7 to today's Tech 8/9 level you could extrapolate a correlation between the 1976 Tech Level to Tech Level of A or beyond. Thoughts?

A private's salary isn't enough to maintain Soc 2. Even if pian in CrImp on moast worlds...
Compare to the 1976 US Army Pay Scedule for 1976: https://www.navycs.com/charts/1976-military-pay-chart.html

 

[Condottiere]

You could have subsidies and danger money.

I'm guessing free board and lodging.

 

[aramis]

You could have subsidies and danger money.

I'm guessing free board and lodging.

Pretty standard for enlisted men throughout the history of formal militaries...
One thing that Marc doesn't seem to have included is apparent social standing for military personnel.
And it's worth noting that a lifestyle fit for a duke's son in a deployed unit is utterly unacceptable for even the lowest lieutenant at a garrison in peacetime. So it may be an intentional omission.

 

[Spinward Flow]

And it's worth noting that a lifestyle fit for a duke's son in a deployed unit is utterly unacceptable for even the lowest lieutenant at a garrison in peacetime. So it may be an intentional omission.

In the military, social standing doesn't matter (except when it does).

 

[Condottiere]

Most will fight under false identities, though their commanding officers may be in the know.

 

[robject]

Most will fight under false identities, though their commanding officers may be in the know.

Vie le Foreign Legion.


I'm simplifying on purpose, but it's clear to me that personnel costs do not drive the budget. Since this can only ever be a first pass SWAG, or whatever it's called, that means it's not significant to the game system.


Your mileage may vary.

 

[Drew]

Pretty standard for enlisted men throughout the history of formal militaries...
One thing that Marc doesn't seem to have included is apparent social standing for military personnel.
And it's worth noting that a lifestyle fit for a duke's son in a deployed unit is utterly unacceptable for even the lowest lieutenant at a garrison in peacetime. So it may be an intentional omission.

I am wondering if the concept of raising up/equipping a force (I am thinking of the European militaries during the 15th - 17th century or the American early military history) would be an idea? I am thinking of H. Beam Piper and Space Viking as a model. Would tie in nicely to the concept of the Pocket Empires or some of the lower tech balkanized worlds.

 

[Spinward Flow]

I am wondering if the concept of raising up/equipping a force would be an idea?

You mean ... (LBB4) Mercenaries ...?

 

[Condottiere]

Regarding cannon fodder, depends on how much life support actually costs.

That's why the default is popsicling, since there is no argument at a hundred starbux per month.