Modern House Rules for Personal Combat
- Thread starter robject
- Start date
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
Looking at the heavy weapons in LBB4, I was unhappy that a light mortar round inflicts the same damage on a contact hit as a heavy mass driver - the burst radius for the latter is much higher though.
So I had a house rule to increase tha damage dice based on how much larger the burst radius for a weapon is compared with the lighest member of its weapon group. The damage chart ends up like this:
</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">Weapon System Burst Damage
Light Mortar 3m 6d
Medium Mortar 5m 8d
Heavy Mortar 10m 9d
V.Heavy Mortar 20m 12d
Light Howitzer 2m 6d
Field Howitzer 4m 8d
Medium Howitzer 9m 10d
Heavy Howitzer 18m 15d
Light M.D. 25m 12d
Medium M.D. 30m 15d
Heavy M.D. 35m 18d
Plasma A 5m 20d
Plasma B 8m 21d
Plasma C 12m 22d
Fusion X 18m 23d
Fusion Y 21m 24d
Fusion Z 31m 26d</pre>[/QUOTE]Using the ARs I mentioned earlier an unarmoured small craft or ship would have an AR of 10, about the same as a WWI heavy tank.
A TL15 grav tank would have an AR of 20 - hmm, perhaps grav tanks should use the ship armour scale.
The numbers may need a little playing around with too.
So I had a house rule to increase tha damage dice based on how much larger the burst radius for a weapon is compared with the lighest member of its weapon group. The damage chart ends up like this:
</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">Weapon System Burst Damage
Light Mortar 3m 6d
Medium Mortar 5m 8d
Heavy Mortar 10m 9d
V.Heavy Mortar 20m 12d
Light Howitzer 2m 6d
Field Howitzer 4m 8d
Medium Howitzer 9m 10d
Heavy Howitzer 18m 15d
Light M.D. 25m 12d
Medium M.D. 30m 15d
Heavy M.D. 35m 18d
Plasma A 5m 20d
Plasma B 8m 21d
Plasma C 12m 22d
Fusion X 18m 23d
Fusion Y 21m 24d
Fusion Z 31m 26d</pre>[/QUOTE]Using the ARs I mentioned earlier an unarmoured small craft or ship would have an AR of 10, about the same as a WWI heavy tank.
A TL15 grav tank would have an AR of 20 - hmm, perhaps grav tanks should use the ship armour scale.
The numbers may need a little playing around with too.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
Looking at the heavy weapons in LBB4, I was unhappy that a light mortar round inflicts the same damage on a contact hit as a heavy mass driver - the burst radius for the latter is much higher though.
So I had a house rule to increase tha damage dice based on how much larger the burst radius for a weapon is compared with the lighest member of its weapon group. The damage chart ends up like this:
</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">Weapon System Burst Damage
Light Mortar 3m 6d
Medium Mortar 5m 8d
Heavy Mortar 10m 9d
V.Heavy Mortar 20m 12d
Light Howitzer 2m 6d
Field Howitzer 4m 8d
Medium Howitzer 9m 10d
Heavy Howitzer 18m 15d
Light M.D. 25m 12d
Medium M.D. 30m 15d
Heavy M.D. 35m 18d
Plasma A 5m 20d
Plasma B 8m 21d
Plasma C 12m 22d
Fusion X 18m 23d
Fusion Y 21m 24d
Fusion Z 31m 26d</pre>[/QUOTE]Using the ARs I mentioned earlier an unarmoured small craft or ship would have an AR of 10, about the same as a WWI heavy tank.
A TL15 grav tank would have an AR of 20 - hmm, perhaps grav tanks should use the ship armour scale.
The numbers may need a little playing around with too.
So I had a house rule to increase tha damage dice based on how much larger the burst radius for a weapon is compared with the lighest member of its weapon group. The damage chart ends up like this:
</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">Weapon System Burst Damage
Light Mortar 3m 6d
Medium Mortar 5m 8d
Heavy Mortar 10m 9d
V.Heavy Mortar 20m 12d
Light Howitzer 2m 6d
Field Howitzer 4m 8d
Medium Howitzer 9m 10d
Heavy Howitzer 18m 15d
Light M.D. 25m 12d
Medium M.D. 30m 15d
Heavy M.D. 35m 18d
Plasma A 5m 20d
Plasma B 8m 21d
Plasma C 12m 22d
Fusion X 18m 23d
Fusion Y 21m 24d
Fusion Z 31m 26d</pre>[/QUOTE]Using the ARs I mentioned earlier an unarmoured small craft or ship would have an AR of 10, about the same as a WWI heavy tank.
A TL15 grav tank would have an AR of 20 - hmm, perhaps grav tanks should use the ship armour scale.
The numbers may need a little playing around with too.
What I'm looking for is a way to convert armor and penetration from Striker/Piper's system to Sigg's armor and damage system.
And by "first blood" I didn't mean random (or skill-based) critical hits, I meant that the first shot in a non-surprise situation was far more deadly than the onesthat followed it.
And by "first blood" I didn't mean random (or skill-based) critical hits, I meant that the first shot in a non-surprise situation was far more deadly than the onesthat followed it.
What I'm looking for is a way to convert armor and penetration from Striker/Piper's system to Sigg's armor and damage system.
And by "first blood" I didn't mean random (or skill-based) critical hits, I meant that the first shot in a non-surprise situation was far more deadly than the onesthat followed it.
And by "first blood" I didn't mean random (or skill-based) critical hits, I meant that the first shot in a non-surprise situation was far more deadly than the onesthat followed it.
A quick idea on scale.
How about scaling the category level of damage with scale of target? For example, a hit with a personal weapon (e.g., pistol) on a vehicle would be one wound category less than the same hit on a person. The wound category would determine how much damage (minuses to attributes for example) is received. Vehicles then would have various attributes/systems that could be hit.
For example:
Scratch: 1
Minor wound: 1D3
Major wound: 1D6
Serious wound: 2D6
Lethal wound: 3D6
.
.
.
Destroyed: 16D6
(numbers and categories are examples only)
To continue the above on scale. If a personal scale weapon achieves a major wound hit on a vehicle it would be reduced to a minor wound. Conversly, if a light vehicle scale weapon, e.g., machine gun, scores a minor wound on a person, the wound category is increased to major.
Details could be provided by having certain weapons do an extra dice for damage, a plus for damage, a different table for damage (to reflect mulitpl effects).
Some ideas on the different scales and associated weapons:
personel -(individual combat weapons)
light vehicle - (crew served weapons)
medium vehicle - (vehicle mounted, towed)
heavy vehicle/small vessel - (heavy weapon)
small starship - (turret)
etc.
This is not a house-rule just an idea at the moment to try to put various scales on the same number scale (at least for notation), e.g., to avoid notations of armor 60 for vehicles.
How about scaling the category level of damage with scale of target? For example, a hit with a personal weapon (e.g., pistol) on a vehicle would be one wound category less than the same hit on a person. The wound category would determine how much damage (minuses to attributes for example) is received. Vehicles then would have various attributes/systems that could be hit.
For example:
Scratch: 1
Minor wound: 1D3
Major wound: 1D6
Serious wound: 2D6
Lethal wound: 3D6
.
.
.
Destroyed: 16D6
(numbers and categories are examples only)
To continue the above on scale. If a personal scale weapon achieves a major wound hit on a vehicle it would be reduced to a minor wound. Conversly, if a light vehicle scale weapon, e.g., machine gun, scores a minor wound on a person, the wound category is increased to major.
Details could be provided by having certain weapons do an extra dice for damage, a plus for damage, a different table for damage (to reflect mulitpl effects).
Some ideas on the different scales and associated weapons:
personel -(individual combat weapons)
light vehicle - (crew served weapons)
medium vehicle - (vehicle mounted, towed)
heavy vehicle/small vessel - (heavy weapon)
small starship - (turret)
etc.
This is not a house-rule just an idea at the moment to try to put various scales on the same number scale (at least for notation), e.g., to avoid notations of armor 60 for vehicles.
A quick idea on scale.
How about scaling the category level of damage with scale of target? For example, a hit with a personal weapon (e.g., pistol) on a vehicle would be one wound category less than the same hit on a person. The wound category would determine how much damage (minuses to attributes for example) is received. Vehicles then would have various attributes/systems that could be hit.
For example:
Scratch: 1
Minor wound: 1D3
Major wound: 1D6
Serious wound: 2D6
Lethal wound: 3D6
.
.
.
Destroyed: 16D6
(numbers and categories are examples only)
To continue the above on scale. If a personal scale weapon achieves a major wound hit on a vehicle it would be reduced to a minor wound. Conversly, if a light vehicle scale weapon, e.g., machine gun, scores a minor wound on a person, the wound category is increased to major.
Details could be provided by having certain weapons do an extra dice for damage, a plus for damage, a different table for damage (to reflect mulitpl effects).
Some ideas on the different scales and associated weapons:
personel -(individual combat weapons)
light vehicle - (crew served weapons)
medium vehicle - (vehicle mounted, towed)
heavy vehicle/small vessel - (heavy weapon)
small starship - (turret)
etc.
This is not a house-rule just an idea at the moment to try to put various scales on the same number scale (at least for notation), e.g., to avoid notations of armor 60 for vehicles.
How about scaling the category level of damage with scale of target? For example, a hit with a personal weapon (e.g., pistol) on a vehicle would be one wound category less than the same hit on a person. The wound category would determine how much damage (minuses to attributes for example) is received. Vehicles then would have various attributes/systems that could be hit.
For example:
Scratch: 1
Minor wound: 1D3
Major wound: 1D6
Serious wound: 2D6
Lethal wound: 3D6
.
.
.
Destroyed: 16D6
(numbers and categories are examples only)
To continue the above on scale. If a personal scale weapon achieves a major wound hit on a vehicle it would be reduced to a minor wound. Conversly, if a light vehicle scale weapon, e.g., machine gun, scores a minor wound on a person, the wound category is increased to major.
Details could be provided by having certain weapons do an extra dice for damage, a plus for damage, a different table for damage (to reflect mulitpl effects).
Some ideas on the different scales and associated weapons:
personel -(individual combat weapons)
light vehicle - (crew served weapons)
medium vehicle - (vehicle mounted, towed)
heavy vehicle/small vessel - (heavy weapon)
small starship - (turret)
etc.
This is not a house-rule just an idea at the moment to try to put various scales on the same number scale (at least for notation), e.g., to avoid notations of armor 60 for vehicles.
daltoncalford
SOC-12
Hi Guys,
I just found this thread so I hope I am not too late to chime in with our system.
I am not going into the elements of task system or task descriptors in combat as that is out of the current context, lets just assume that one thing has hit another thing and it is time to determine damage.
First element of the discussion, it is assumed that an attacker is attempting to have an effect on the target. Otherwise, damage and damage calculations are not neccessary.
Second element of the discussion, weapons are for killing, and they are normally designed for killing things that are similar to the bearer. For example, the main cannon on a tank is designed to try to kill an equivalent tank that it is mounted on. Most weapons carried by a human are designed to easily kill a human. Now, due to either technological and or construction limitations, weapons may not be able to kill with a single hit, while other weapons are rated to kill items much tougher than themselves.
In our system a average weapon at the current combat scale would have a rating of '7'.
Weapons with a lower rating are harder to use to cause a kill at the current scale, while more powerful weapons are more likely to cause a kill.
Now, we rarely use absolute scales in describing things except when designing equipment.
We use human scale for most things but, here is a comparitive chart (made it up while typing this so don't hold me to it)
Sub-Atomic
Atomic
Molecular
Microscopic
Tiny
Small
Medium
Large
Small Vehicular
Medium Vehicular/Tiny Building
Large Vehicular/Small Building/Tiny Starship
Enormous Vehicular/Medium Building/Small Starship
Large Building/Medium Starship/Tiny Archology or Tiny Highport
Enormous Building/Large Starship/Small Archology or Small Highport
Enormous Starship/Medium Archology/Medium Highport/Tiny Planetary
Large Archology/Large Highport/small planetary
etc, etc.
Every scale jump is approximately 10 times larger or smaller than the next/previous scale.
Now, the range of values in our system goes from 0 to 15, where 0 is roughly equivalent to 12 on the previous scale so you can see we have a bit of overlap on both sides of the values.
Ok, so far it is a long post and most of you are getting bored with it, but, here is where the meat is.
With the above scale parametres, you can specify and compare any scale to another - you can shift the effects from a human scale to a deathstar scale and back. While the attributes range of both are roughly the same (lets say the death star has a strengh of 9 at the tiny planetary scale, the human has a plasma rifle with a strength of 12 at small vehicle scale, giveing a scale difference of 7 jumps)
Now, that effects alot of things, including task difficulty and final effect results.
Now, in most combats, everything is either the same scale or one scale above or below the current. So, you can describe combat without bringing scale into it, but, use scale for those rare occasions that it is important.
For damage, that depends upon the quality of the hit, the damage types, the armor types and of course, the weapon type. Each weapon states it's base damage at diffent levels of task success while armor can reduce the base damage it addresses.
Here is an example
Point Defence Pulse Laser
3-1348
Small Vehicular
Heat, Piercing
Snub Pistol 4-0247
Human
Impact, Piercing
So, you look at the above two weapons and you see that the stats are almost identical, even though one pumps out MW of power while the other shoots an old chem propelled slug.
Reading the lines gives us the following:
name of the weapon
weapon combat value
-
damage level at minimal hit
damage level with normal hit
damage level with superior hit
damage level with extraordinary hit
Scale the weapon works at
Damage Characteristics
This gives each weapon distinct characteristics without huge damage/penatration values. It keeps the same mechanics for all combat situations and it allows for the sexyness of different weapon types.
I am doing all of this from memory so don't yell at me because it differs a bit from the rules I am posting (weapon stats for example)
This system has evolved from the bits combat system combined with a variety of playtesters.
I have been trying to be generic in description, but it is hard since I have had nothing but rule rewrites on my mind for weeks.
I hope I have been clear enough.
best regards
Dalton
I just found this thread so I hope I am not too late to chime in with our system.
I am not going into the elements of task system or task descriptors in combat as that is out of the current context, lets just assume that one thing has hit another thing and it is time to determine damage.
First element of the discussion, it is assumed that an attacker is attempting to have an effect on the target. Otherwise, damage and damage calculations are not neccessary.
Second element of the discussion, weapons are for killing, and they are normally designed for killing things that are similar to the bearer. For example, the main cannon on a tank is designed to try to kill an equivalent tank that it is mounted on. Most weapons carried by a human are designed to easily kill a human. Now, due to either technological and or construction limitations, weapons may not be able to kill with a single hit, while other weapons are rated to kill items much tougher than themselves.
In our system a average weapon at the current combat scale would have a rating of '7'.
Weapons with a lower rating are harder to use to cause a kill at the current scale, while more powerful weapons are more likely to cause a kill.
Now, we rarely use absolute scales in describing things except when designing equipment.
We use human scale for most things but, here is a comparitive chart (made it up while typing this so don't hold me to it)
Sub-Atomic
Atomic
Molecular
Microscopic
Tiny
Small
Medium
Large
Small Vehicular
Medium Vehicular/Tiny Building
Large Vehicular/Small Building/Tiny Starship
Enormous Vehicular/Medium Building/Small Starship
Large Building/Medium Starship/Tiny Archology or Tiny Highport
Enormous Building/Large Starship/Small Archology or Small Highport
Enormous Starship/Medium Archology/Medium Highport/Tiny Planetary
Large Archology/Large Highport/small planetary
etc, etc.
Every scale jump is approximately 10 times larger or smaller than the next/previous scale.
Now, the range of values in our system goes from 0 to 15, where 0 is roughly equivalent to 12 on the previous scale so you can see we have a bit of overlap on both sides of the values.
Ok, so far it is a long post and most of you are getting bored with it, but, here is where the meat is.
With the above scale parametres, you can specify and compare any scale to another - you can shift the effects from a human scale to a deathstar scale and back. While the attributes range of both are roughly the same (lets say the death star has a strengh of 9 at the tiny planetary scale, the human has a plasma rifle with a strength of 12 at small vehicle scale, giveing a scale difference of 7 jumps)
Now, that effects alot of things, including task difficulty and final effect results.
Now, in most combats, everything is either the same scale or one scale above or below the current. So, you can describe combat without bringing scale into it, but, use scale for those rare occasions that it is important.
For damage, that depends upon the quality of the hit, the damage types, the armor types and of course, the weapon type. Each weapon states it's base damage at diffent levels of task success while armor can reduce the base damage it addresses.
Here is an example
Point Defence Pulse Laser
3-1348
Small Vehicular
Heat, Piercing
Snub Pistol 4-0247
Human
Impact, Piercing
So, you look at the above two weapons and you see that the stats are almost identical, even though one pumps out MW of power while the other shoots an old chem propelled slug.
Reading the lines gives us the following:
name of the weapon
weapon combat value
-
damage level at minimal hit
damage level with normal hit
damage level with superior hit
damage level with extraordinary hit
Scale the weapon works at
Damage Characteristics
This gives each weapon distinct characteristics without huge damage/penatration values. It keeps the same mechanics for all combat situations and it allows for the sexyness of different weapon types.
I am doing all of this from memory so don't yell at me because it differs a bit from the rules I am posting (weapon stats for example)
This system has evolved from the bits combat system combined with a variety of playtesters.
I have been trying to be generic in description, but it is hard since I have had nothing but rule rewrites on my mind for weeks.
I hope I have been clear enough.
best regards
Dalton
daltoncalford
SOC-12
Hi Guys,
I just found this thread so I hope I am not too late to chime in with our system.
I am not going into the elements of task system or task descriptors in combat as that is out of the current context, lets just assume that one thing has hit another thing and it is time to determine damage.
First element of the discussion, it is assumed that an attacker is attempting to have an effect on the target. Otherwise, damage and damage calculations are not neccessary.
Second element of the discussion, weapons are for killing, and they are normally designed for killing things that are similar to the bearer. For example, the main cannon on a tank is designed to try to kill an equivalent tank that it is mounted on. Most weapons carried by a human are designed to easily kill a human. Now, due to either technological and or construction limitations, weapons may not be able to kill with a single hit, while other weapons are rated to kill items much tougher than themselves.
In our system a average weapon at the current combat scale would have a rating of '7'.
Weapons with a lower rating are harder to use to cause a kill at the current scale, while more powerful weapons are more likely to cause a kill.
Now, we rarely use absolute scales in describing things except when designing equipment.
We use human scale for most things but, here is a comparitive chart (made it up while typing this so don't hold me to it)
Sub-Atomic
Atomic
Molecular
Microscopic
Tiny
Small
Medium
Large
Small Vehicular
Medium Vehicular/Tiny Building
Large Vehicular/Small Building/Tiny Starship
Enormous Vehicular/Medium Building/Small Starship
Large Building/Medium Starship/Tiny Archology or Tiny Highport
Enormous Building/Large Starship/Small Archology or Small Highport
Enormous Starship/Medium Archology/Medium Highport/Tiny Planetary
Large Archology/Large Highport/small planetary
etc, etc.
Every scale jump is approximately 10 times larger or smaller than the next/previous scale.
Now, the range of values in our system goes from 0 to 15, where 0 is roughly equivalent to 12 on the previous scale so you can see we have a bit of overlap on both sides of the values.
Ok, so far it is a long post and most of you are getting bored with it, but, here is where the meat is.
With the above scale parametres, you can specify and compare any scale to another - you can shift the effects from a human scale to a deathstar scale and back. While the attributes range of both are roughly the same (lets say the death star has a strengh of 9 at the tiny planetary scale, the human has a plasma rifle with a strength of 12 at small vehicle scale, giveing a scale difference of 7 jumps)
Now, that effects alot of things, including task difficulty and final effect results.
Now, in most combats, everything is either the same scale or one scale above or below the current. So, you can describe combat without bringing scale into it, but, use scale for those rare occasions that it is important.
For damage, that depends upon the quality of the hit, the damage types, the armor types and of course, the weapon type. Each weapon states it's base damage at diffent levels of task success while armor can reduce the base damage it addresses.
Here is an example
Point Defence Pulse Laser
3-1348
Small Vehicular
Heat, Piercing
Snub Pistol 4-0247
Human
Impact, Piercing
So, you look at the above two weapons and you see that the stats are almost identical, even though one pumps out MW of power while the other shoots an old chem propelled slug.
Reading the lines gives us the following:
name of the weapon
weapon combat value
-
damage level at minimal hit
damage level with normal hit
damage level with superior hit
damage level with extraordinary hit
Scale the weapon works at
Damage Characteristics
This gives each weapon distinct characteristics without huge damage/penatration values. It keeps the same mechanics for all combat situations and it allows for the sexyness of different weapon types.
I am doing all of this from memory so don't yell at me because it differs a bit from the rules I am posting (weapon stats for example)
This system has evolved from the bits combat system combined with a variety of playtesters.
I have been trying to be generic in description, but it is hard since I have had nothing but rule rewrites on my mind for weeks.
I hope I have been clear enough.
best regards
Dalton
I just found this thread so I hope I am not too late to chime in with our system.
I am not going into the elements of task system or task descriptors in combat as that is out of the current context, lets just assume that one thing has hit another thing and it is time to determine damage.
First element of the discussion, it is assumed that an attacker is attempting to have an effect on the target. Otherwise, damage and damage calculations are not neccessary.
Second element of the discussion, weapons are for killing, and they are normally designed for killing things that are similar to the bearer. For example, the main cannon on a tank is designed to try to kill an equivalent tank that it is mounted on. Most weapons carried by a human are designed to easily kill a human. Now, due to either technological and or construction limitations, weapons may not be able to kill with a single hit, while other weapons are rated to kill items much tougher than themselves.
In our system a average weapon at the current combat scale would have a rating of '7'.
Weapons with a lower rating are harder to use to cause a kill at the current scale, while more powerful weapons are more likely to cause a kill.
Now, we rarely use absolute scales in describing things except when designing equipment.
We use human scale for most things but, here is a comparitive chart (made it up while typing this so don't hold me to it)
Sub-Atomic
Atomic
Molecular
Microscopic
Tiny
Small
Medium
Large
Small Vehicular
Medium Vehicular/Tiny Building
Large Vehicular/Small Building/Tiny Starship
Enormous Vehicular/Medium Building/Small Starship
Large Building/Medium Starship/Tiny Archology or Tiny Highport
Enormous Building/Large Starship/Small Archology or Small Highport
Enormous Starship/Medium Archology/Medium Highport/Tiny Planetary
Large Archology/Large Highport/small planetary
etc, etc.
Every scale jump is approximately 10 times larger or smaller than the next/previous scale.
Now, the range of values in our system goes from 0 to 15, where 0 is roughly equivalent to 12 on the previous scale so you can see we have a bit of overlap on both sides of the values.
Ok, so far it is a long post and most of you are getting bored with it, but, here is where the meat is.
With the above scale parametres, you can specify and compare any scale to another - you can shift the effects from a human scale to a deathstar scale and back. While the attributes range of both are roughly the same (lets say the death star has a strengh of 9 at the tiny planetary scale, the human has a plasma rifle with a strength of 12 at small vehicle scale, giveing a scale difference of 7 jumps)
Now, that effects alot of things, including task difficulty and final effect results.
Now, in most combats, everything is either the same scale or one scale above or below the current. So, you can describe combat without bringing scale into it, but, use scale for those rare occasions that it is important.
For damage, that depends upon the quality of the hit, the damage types, the armor types and of course, the weapon type. Each weapon states it's base damage at diffent levels of task success while armor can reduce the base damage it addresses.
Here is an example
Point Defence Pulse Laser
3-1348
Small Vehicular
Heat, Piercing
Snub Pistol 4-0247
Human
Impact, Piercing
So, you look at the above two weapons and you see that the stats are almost identical, even though one pumps out MW of power while the other shoots an old chem propelled slug.
Reading the lines gives us the following:
name of the weapon
weapon combat value
-
damage level at minimal hit
damage level with normal hit
damage level with superior hit
damage level with extraordinary hit
Scale the weapon works at
Damage Characteristics
This gives each weapon distinct characteristics without huge damage/penatration values. It keeps the same mechanics for all combat situations and it allows for the sexyness of different weapon types.
I am doing all of this from memory so don't yell at me because it differs a bit from the rules I am posting (weapon stats for example)
This system has evolved from the bits combat system combined with a variety of playtesters.
I have been trying to be generic in description, but it is hard since I have had nothing but rule rewrites on my mind for weeks.
I hope I have been clear enough.
best regards
Dalton
