We have just posted a preview of Darrians. You can find it at;
http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/home/detail.php?qsID=1809
http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/home/detail.php?qsID=1809
(Mongoose) Darrians Preview
- Thread starter MongooseMatt
- Start date
far-trader
SOC-14 10K
Not "gristly" eh? 
Yeah, stuff happen. Perhaps a lack of proof reading. Spellcheckers make people lazy in that department, trusting if there are no spelling errors it's all good. I've noticed many similar errors happening much more often because of it.
Here's hoping Matt will see your report on it and have that edited before final release.
Yeah, stuff happen. Perhaps a lack of proof reading. Spellcheckers make people lazy in that department, trusting if there are no spelling errors it's all good. I've noticed many similar errors happening much more often because of it.
Here's hoping Matt will see your report on it and have that edited before final release.
Actually according to Collins English Dictionary it can be spelt both ways over here in the UK.
I know we are just awkward that way.
As a side note I just looked up spelt/spelled to make sure I didn't get that wrong (i didn't) & noticed on the same wiki page that 'Traveller' is actually the correct English spelling. Whereas I always though it should be 'Traveler' (US spelling) and that 'Traveller' was one of those typos that crept through and became part of the game (like vacc suit and air/raft).
I know we are just awkward that way.
As a side note I just looked up spelt/spelled to make sure I didn't get that wrong (i didn't) & noticed on the same wiki page that 'Traveller' is actually the correct English spelling. Whereas I always though it should be 'Traveler' (US spelling) and that 'Traveller' was one of those typos that crept through and became part of the game (like vacc suit and air/raft).
G. Kashkanun Anderson
SOC-13
It's a bit more off kilter than that, actually. The page in question has both 'grisly' and 'grizzly' on it, but clearly to describe the same concept. Still, I know how easy it is for things like this to slip past in manuscripts; my own personal bugaboo is the their/they're continuum, for example.
Not quite. 'Grisly' and 'griz(z)ly' are alike in that they are both adjectives - but they describe different states. 'Grisly' means 'horrifyingly grotesque', whilst 'griz(z)ly means 'flecked with grey'. That's how grizzly bears got their name: they're, well... grizzly. And old veterans are described as 'grizzled' because... you get the idea.
Although, judging from the artwork on the upcoming Darrian book, if anybody in the Traveller Universe could be described as 'grizzly', it would be the Darrians.
No. That's not the awkward part. The awkward part is being on the wrong side of the pond to make a 'fanny' reference. Or reporting that your girlfriend was really 'bummed' the other night, and then having to spend the next two hours picking everyone else up off the floor.I know we are just awkward that way.
o:Yep you are right, my bad.
No. That's not the awkward part. The awkward part is being on the wrong side of the pond to make a 'fanny' reference. Or reporting that your girlfriend was really 'bummed' the other night, and then having to spend the next two hours picking everyone else up off the floor.
Thats the trouble with these colonials inventing their own language.
ThunderChilde
SOC-13
Hate to point out that Linguisticly American Englsh, atleast of the spoken kind of the seaboard of Atlantic is closer to the English language as spoken 200 years ago. There has been more drift over there than over here. There have been a few Linguists visiting from England because there are local places that still speak English of the Colonial Period, and no where in England still does.
Other than the typo, does the article whet your appetites for the book?
Fiat,
Sadly, no. Mongoose has yet to wow me with any of their products. There's been no First In or Path of Tears yet and I fully expect there will never be. So far there's been no indication that the talent, creativity, or editorial acumen exist to produce anything truly noteworthy.
The Darrian peek rated a "Meh" with me.
- The Entertainer career is nothing but the usual padding for page count. The same career is present in the MgT core rules and, seeing as you need to core rules to use the Darrian book, the Darrian Enterntainer "variant" is not a variant at all. It's a repetition.
The description talks about traditional Darrian art forms but none of those art forms are even hinted at. What makes Darrian poetry, music or dance uniquely Darrian? Mongoose could have presented a few examples of uniquely Darrian art forms, like flame sculpture, which players could then use to modify the core career into a Darrian one.
Of course, developing descriptions of uniquely Darrian art forms would have required effort.
- The Darrian prehistory information, paradigm shifting discoveries, and current ban on archeological digs was nifty. The "Sweetness & Light" story of Darrian history found in CT's AM:8 was rather cloying, but I know of no one who seriously thought that was the whole story. After all, the Darrians are the only people in the setting who openly acknowledge they have a doomsday weapon and will use it.
If this darker prehistory information is part of a larger campaign within the book, much as the secret of the Star Trigger was in AM:8, or even if the information fuels several adventure seeds, it's nice to have. Is it worth buying an entire book for? I don't know.
- The design and deckplans for the Pioneer Scout are nice. Any ship design and deckplans are nice. I haven't run enough ship combat using MgT rules to determine whether the Thenng is truly different, which would make it memorable, or just a tweak to existing vessels, i.e. "This year we've added fins!"
Of course, the fact that the Pioneer Scout is a purely military design limits it's plausible use by the players to certain types of adventures and campaigns. A Suleiman can be in the hands of a detached duty scout, a private owner, or an official organization while a Thenng will only be in the hands of official organizations unless something extremely odd has occurred.
Putting it another way, your players can show up at Mithril aboard a Suleiman with a damaged jump drive and get shanghaied into making a planetary survey by gleeful Sword Worlds' official there. On the other hand, if your players show up at Mithril claiming they've a damaged jump drive aboard their Darrian Confederation Navy Pioneer Scout designed for sensor saturation and rapid jump cycle times complete with drop tanks, the Sword Worlds' official there is going to have a very different view of the situation.
I'm a completeist, so I'll get MgT: Darrians sooner or later. That's the rub however, "sooner or later". I won't be bothering to pre-order it and I won't be haunting my FLGS for it's release.
Regards,
Bill
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D
DFW
Guest
OED lists it as a variant of grisly so it can be used that way. I wouldn't use both in the same material to describe the same thing though.
I had a nit to pick with the artwork chosen for that career. Some generic punk/pop looking singer with a microphone with silhouettes of generic rock concert kids ... throwing up the horns?! Really? I guess it was Darrians -> Terran Settlers -> Maghiz -> Revert culturally to 1995.
Massively missed opportunity to show us something uniquely Darrian artwork style. Image only has a glancing familiarity with the -description- of the carreer, and portrays nothing of Darrian culture and wouldn't have looked out of place in a generic 1980's-1990's Earth setting. Artwork's competent, but its a fail on art direction - it coulda been something intended for the Dilettante book and didn't make it, but it doesn't even have anything in it showing a passing familiarity to a futuristic/high tech milleu.
To go over your points:
1) I'd have to look back at the core rulebook to see how different the Darrian specific entertainer class is to the core one. Having said that, you seem to be posting under the assumption that the entertainer class will be the only entry making a mention of Darrian art. We have only seen the five pages of this preview. There are two or three more pages in "Signs and Portents #82", Mongoose's PDF magazine if memory serves. So, 7 or 8 pages out of 168. To me it's too early to assume that there is no other entry about Darrian art yet. If there isn't, then I'll be disappointed as well. But it looks like we'll have to wait until August at the earliest to see. So, for all you know they HAVE developed uniquely Darrian art within the book.
2) I do agree with the darker pre-history being more interesting. It should add depth to the race. To me it might be enough to buy the book just for the history and lore, such lore can be applied to any Traveller campaign set in the OTU that can possibly have involvement with the race.
3) Yes, the scout in the preview has a bit less uses then a Type S Scout. But then again, so does a Gazelle Class Close Escort. To compare it to a Type S is an apples to oranges comparsion. Again, we're seeing 5 pages, 7 or 8 counting the Signs and Portents article of a 168 page book. So to imply that such is a poor choice for many or most starting Traveller campaigns, and that the ship has limited uses compared to a Type S for a basic group of Travellers is just stating the obvious. But most campaigns wouldn't have the Travellers starting out with a Gazelle Class either. You seem to be thinking this is the Darrian version of the Type S perhaps? It obviously isn't.
Or to put it another way, yes there's less reasons for a group of player characters to have access to the Darrian Pioneer Scout. So what? Since we haven't seen what the Darrians WOULD use as their "Type S", why mention that is has less uses for a group of player characters then a Type S? Do they use ships bought from the Imperium? Ships built in Darrian space under license from the Imperium? Their own version of a cheap 100 dTon ship (The ship in the preview is 200 dTon and is FAR from inexpensive as an aside) for such a purpose? Or will it be left up to the individual GM to decide what they might use? Well, we have a month or so to see when the book is out in August. We don't know enough based on this one preview. What we DO know is what a Darrian MILITARY scout looks like, and what a Darrian designed ship might be like. That's it.
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This I'll agree with, but in general I've found a fair chunk of the MGT art to be a bit weak. Not all, some I do like but some I don't.
Is this a deal breaker for me? No. Now if under the description for Darrians they just show a generic looking human instead of someone obviously Darrian, then it might come closer to a deal breaker.
Arvig,
Actually I'm posting under the assumption that a preview is a teaser meant to convince me the buy the book before I see it.
Yet, this preview somehow failed to do that, just as Mongoose's previous previews failed to do the same.
They don't need to give away all their secrets, who'd buy the book after that, but they do need to hint at them. Why not show an index page or the table of contents? Give us some hint about what goodies you may or may not have waiting for us. SJGames, a far better managed company which produces much better work, routinely includes an index page and table of contents page in their previews because those pages give a prospective buyer hints about the goodies lurking inside the book in question.
With a Mongoose preview we instead we get a repeated career, a nice history lesson, and a nifty deck plan. Whoopee...
As for the Entertainer career, whether Mongoose does present various Darrian art forms elsewhere in the book or not, that career is still a repeat of the career in the Core book. It's padding, nothing more.
As for the Thengg-class scout, your counter-example of the Gazelle-class is absolutely ludicrous. GDW had already provided several civilian and paramilitary designs for GMs and players before the Gazelle was published in JTAS.
You also failed to comprehend my remarks because I actually applaud Mongoose for providing a Darrian-specific ship design in their book and I hope there are more. I said the design was a nice one too because the design is indeed a nice one. All I did was point out there the "limited plausible player use" of this purely military fleet recon ship. Nothing more.
GDW sadly included no Darrian designs in the original AM, despite talk about TL16 squadrons and the Special Branch. We had to wait for TNE's Regency book to see our first alleged Darrian design and then it the design was more of a shell game than anything else. Having a purely Darrian design or designs in this book means Mongoose did a very good thing.
There could very well be several other ship designs in the book and there could very well be a section detailing specific Darrian art forms, but we don't know that because Mongoose doesn't think include an index page or table of contents page in their previews is a good idea. Having to wait, as you suggest, for the book to come out does not work for many of us because of Mongoose's very limited presence at the retail level. I need to make the decision to order the book through my FLGS based solely on what I read and see on the internet because I won't be able to thumb through a copy until I own one. This means the foolish lack of an index or table of contents in the preview prevents or delays my purchase of the book in question and that means the preview failed to do it's job.
Regards,
Bill
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I couldn't help but notice this comment written by you on another thread from a few weeks ago:
Given comments like that, as well as your negative dig against Mongoose as a company earlier in the post, it doesn't seem likely that you'd want to buy their products in the first place. It sounds to me more like you look at their new products having already decided that you'll hate them, so it seems disingenuous to complain that you are somehow being put off buying the book just by this preview.
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Blix,
You'd be surprised at how much Mongoose stuff I own. Some of it's good, some of it's repetitive, some of it is change for change's sake, and some of it is wretched, just like any product line put out any company.
I'm a "completeist" as I mentioned earlier in this thread. I so much of a "completeist" I own nearly every T4 product and that was a version of Traveller so shoddy that Mongoose or anyone else wouldn't be able to do worse than T4 if they tried.
Well, you're wrong.
Let's look at what I actually wrote.
I commented on the three sections contained in the preview.
- The Entertainer Career - It's a repeat of the career already found in the Core book and thus padding. There may be examples elsewhere of specific Darrian art forms it mentions, but the Career is still a repeat. My rating? Thumbs down for the repeated career.
- The "Dark" History materials. Let me quote my post here: The Darrian prehistory information, paradigm shifting discoveries, and current ban on archeological digs was nifty. Please note the use of the word nifty. I go onto to say this is a refreshing look at the Darrians and it would be great if this material was part of a larger campaign presented in the book. I also don't know if this material alone would be enough to make me purchase the book. My rating? Thumbs up for the history material and honestly unsure whether it's enough.
- The Thenng class Pioneer Scout. Again, how about an actual quote instead of an assumption? The design and deckplans for the Pioneer Scout are nice. Nice. I go onto explain how the design might be memorable and then discuss how a GM's use of the design would naturally skew towards certain types of campaigns. My rating? Thumbs up, because Any ship design and deckplans are nice.
That's two thumbs up and one thumb down.
Before even discussing the details of the preview, I wrote the preview rated a "Meh" with me. That's neither good or bad and that's because the preview didn't do it's job.
After discussing the previews, I mentioned my buying plans regarding the supplement. I was going to get it sooner or later. Get It. As in buy it. I wasn't going to pre-order it, however, and I wasn't going to pester my FLGS for a copy but I was going to get it sooner or later.
I explicitly said I would be buying the supplement sooner or later. I also made it clear that the preview failed to make me want to pre-order the book. Please read what I actually wrote and not what your prejudices think I may have wrote.
Regards,
Bill
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I find it amusing Whipsnade that you consider my reply to you to be a flame, or as you so put it "getting my panties in a knot". Gee, am I ALLOWED to post my opinion in reply to yours? Apparently not, you got so very defensive.
If you were willing to have a friendly debate I'd fire off a rebuttal as to why for instance I don't consider my example of the Gazelle Class to be an absurd example to counter your comments about the Darrian Pioneer Scout.
If you were willing to have a friendly debate I'd fire off a rebuttal as to why for instance I don't consider my example of the Gazelle Class to be an absurd example to counter your comments about the Darrian Pioneer Scout.
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How about I write something nice and positive?
100t Courier (Darrian version of the X-Boat)
200t Tramp Trader (For Darrians who wish to trade outside the Confederation)
400t Far Trader (Better armoured for trade into risky areas such as the Sword Worlds)
200t Rapid Response Rescue Vessel (Thunderbird's are go...)
600t Passenger Liner
Then there are the following military vessels built to TL15 specifications which can be used for Darrian naval missions:
200t Covert Espionage Scout
200t Pioneer Scout
400t System Defence Boat
In addition there are details about fleet dispersal, classification of Darrian capital ships, naval tactics (for which the military vessels have been tweaked with TLC) and a list of the capabilities of the pre-Maghiz TL16 vessels.
A further seven ships were designed but not ultimately included in the book due to being slightly less applicable for PCs. However, they will appear in a future S&P article. A slight shame since I was really pleased with the Mobile Shipyard and SDB Carrier especially - but they were realistically of little use save as one off adventure locations.
Elsewhere in the book are indeed modest sections on Art and Recreation, which briefly dwell on art forms and Darrian preference for live performances. The Darrian entertainer is actually different than that in the Core Rulebook in terms of skill balance, events and ranks despite the similarity of career names.
Unfortunately I cannot offer you an index since I don't have a copy of the final layout version. What I can do is give a list of the chapters I submitted. These of course may have been reordered or renamed according to the editing process.
Introduction
Darrian Characters (characteristics and careers)
Darrian Race (physiology, psychology, society and culture)
Darrian History (expanded version of the original)
Darrian Secrets (information and things kept hidden from common knowledge)
Darrian Equipment (useful equipment and some weird pre-Maghiz artefacts)
Darrian Spacecraft (as described earlier)
Darrian Encounters (random patron generator, random encounters, some sample Darrian patrons with scenario seeds, and some deadly animals in the Confederation)
Darrian Worlds (each of the Confederation worlds described in more detail, including what happened to it after the Maghiz and its current status in 1105)
Darrian Campaigns (how to handle Darrians in a campaign plus a further 50+ scenario seeds)
I don't know if that makes the book any more tantalising, but hopefully helps clarify a few of your observations.
There are a number of Darrian ship designs included in the book. The following civilian vessels use TL13 tech, all of which have potential for PCs to play about in:
100t Courier (Darrian version of the X-Boat)
200t Tramp Trader (For Darrians who wish to trade outside the Confederation)
400t Far Trader (Better armoured for trade into risky areas such as the Sword Worlds)
200t Rapid Response Rescue Vessel (Thunderbird's are go...)
600t Passenger Liner
Then there are the following military vessels built to TL15 specifications which can be used for Darrian naval missions:
200t Covert Espionage Scout
200t Pioneer Scout
400t System Defence Boat
In addition there are details about fleet dispersal, classification of Darrian capital ships, naval tactics (for which the military vessels have been tweaked with TLC) and a list of the capabilities of the pre-Maghiz TL16 vessels.
A further seven ships were designed but not ultimately included in the book due to being slightly less applicable for PCs. However, they will appear in a future S&P article. A slight shame since I was really pleased with the Mobile Shipyard and SDB Carrier especially - but they were realistically of little use save as one off adventure locations.
Elsewhere in the book are indeed modest sections on Art and Recreation, which briefly dwell on art forms and Darrian preference for live performances. The Darrian entertainer is actually different than that in the Core Rulebook in terms of skill balance, events and ranks despite the similarity of career names.
Unfortunately I cannot offer you an index since I don't have a copy of the final layout version. What I can do is give a list of the chapters I submitted. These of course may have been reordered or renamed according to the editing process.
Introduction
Darrian Characters (characteristics and careers)
Darrian Race (physiology, psychology, society and culture)
Darrian History (expanded version of the original)
Darrian Secrets (information and things kept hidden from common knowledge)
Darrian Equipment (useful equipment and some weird pre-Maghiz artefacts)
Darrian Spacecraft (as described earlier)
Darrian Encounters (random patron generator, random encounters, some sample Darrian patrons with scenario seeds, and some deadly animals in the Confederation)
Darrian Worlds (each of the Confederation worlds described in more detail, including what happened to it after the Maghiz and its current status in 1105)
Darrian Campaigns (how to handle Darrians in a campaign plus a further 50+ scenario seeds)
I don't know if that makes the book any more tantalising, but hopefully helps clarify a few of your observations.
I absolutely agree. And that would be relevant if anyone had expressed livid outrage at anything, trivial or not. What happened was that Bill expressed very limited approval (damming with faint praise), you wrongly interpreted that as livid outrage, and Bill, very properly, corrected your mistake in a manner that might have been couched in softer terms, but were in no way inappropriate between kindred spirits.
It's all a matter of interpretation, isn't it? With the printed word, there are fewer clues to underlying emotions. And I've noticed that many people, given the choice between interpreting a message as being perhaps a bit clumsily expressed and being a deliberate attack, seem to go out of their way to take offense (Not just on Traveller forums, but in general).
Personally I prefer to assume that fellow Traveller fans are nice, friendly people until the opposite has been proven.
For many of us, Traveller is a hobby, and people tend to get passionate about their hobbies. So, yes, we see the occasional hasty reply and a bit of intemperate language from time to time. Try taking it all with a bit of good will and refrain from escalating. Point out, if you must, that the recent post was a bit harsh, and did the poster really mean it the way it came out? My experience is that nine times out of ten, the poster didn't and is quick to retract and amend. Sometimes even apologise.
You know yourself best. For myself, I've had many a good idea while beating dead horses here and on other Traveller forums. True, there have been people that I've grown fed up with. I've solved my problems with them by the simple expedient of ignoring them rather than dropping the forum completely. I've even made use of the ignore function once or twice.
Hans
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